EAST saves West's BUTT today!

[MarkMyWords]

As long as the grievance is paid and the violation is stopped and the company adheres to the CBA then all is resolved.

No Violation.....where's your proof.

Just because you keep saying it is a contract violation, doesn't make it true. Now stop clicking your heels together and wishing for a contract violation.

 

[AstroLounge]

The latest from our AWA ALPA this evening is that the pilots ARE in fact being pay protected for these cancellations. No idea if this includes our F/As as well... one would hope so.

Sounds like a win-win situation if our crews are getting paid and our passengers are getting home on time for the holidays...

This is exactly how I feel. Personally if my flight was subbed out to another crew and I still got paid, I wouldn't give a rats a**.......even if air Zimbabwe flew the segment The Unions have every right to fight for respective compensation for the AWA crew and if the Management turns a back on this issue THEY will be opening Pandoras Box. If a side letter by the Pilot and F/A unions address this subbing explicitly where BOTH crews get paid this will be very COST PROHIBITIVE for them to do it on a regular basis.

 

[FlyDeMetrius]

You don't get it, the company used a US/East flight to make up a US/West cancelled flight, that is the violation.

700 I have a question to ask regarding this situation of whether or not it was a contract violation. Did the flights operate as an US Airways (US)flight or and America West Flight (HP). Since, airlines in the United States can start or service to any aiport at any time the United States unless there are slot restrictions was this the case? Not to say that it was right it could have been what have happen. Since I don't completely know the HP F/A contract I'm just speaking from general knowledge of the aviation. I think that where the contract may come in to place is if the original flight was scheduled to be operated by US Airways(US).

A bit of a seperate question in this debate. How was USAirways able to fly flight 9022 from Washington National to Phoenix if they don't have the route authority?

WOW Sand2now that is a good question? I must agree with you on that one. I do know that US has several route authorities that we don't fly.

 

[crazy4newus]

I understand the contract concerns but lemme just throw this situation in the mix....

i was a single agent on a quick turn earlier this week. flight was due in OT but held for gate for 22 minutes thus making it a quick turn with exactly 35 minutes to deplane 134 people INCLUDING 7 wheelchairs and 1 aisle chair and NO wheelchair runners (it's an outside vendor in phx) to help and then enplane 134 pax with 3 wheelchairs and 2 UMs. there were not spare wheelchairs in the boarding areas and i could not walk away from the gate to search as i was on my own. the FAs on board were spectacular and helpful and made my day. they willingly looked for chairs and helped me run these 8 people up the jetway in wheelchairs (one of them went and found two chairs at another gate). then the pilot advised that our quick turn just turned quicker (just as we started to board) due to our atc time slot. the pilot took one of the wheelchair pax on board when he went down to start his paperwork and checks. this was certainly not his job, nor was it technically the FAs job but in effort to be helpful and take care of the customer AND EACH OTHER they helped. i, for one, am grateful for co-workers who are willing to step in and do part of the "gate agents" job to help get the customers where they need to go!

 

[rjh]

I'm sure the West crewmembers were all pay protected for their cancelled trips. The grievance filed by AFA is ridiculous. If it was a true violation, why didn't ALPA file one as well?

 

[sand2snow]

From the AWA Union Contract Section 3 talking about cancellation pay:

C. CANCELLATION PAY

Subject to the requirements of Guaranteed Reserve set forth in Section 7, Scheduling, Subsection E, Flight Attendants shall receive pay and credit for all hours that are scheduled and subsequently canceled.

 

[rjh]

From the AWA Union Contract Section 3 talking about cancellation pay:

C. CANCELLATION PAY

Subject to the requirements of Guaranteed Reserve set forth in Section 7, Scheduling, Subsection E, Flight Attendants shall receive pay and credit for all hours that are scheduled and subsequently canceled.

The copy of the grievance that was posted here mentions nothing about the FA's not being pay protected. It only says that published AWA flying was done by USEast crews. So-if a flight is cancelled and we have options to protect the passengers, the union would rather have the passenger wait a day (or more) to get to their destination? Having USEast operate those flights is no different than accomodating the passengers on a different airline.

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

The "team" is still under two different CBAs and two different pay scales. SCOPE was violated. If there is no protest, former AWA management will do it all the time and more west crews will make no money as they will be sitting on the ground. It also applies to east crews. Would there be an outcry if an HP plane with HP crew in PHL was suddenly used to fly a US flight to LAX? -_-

Barbie -- can you please clarify this for me? If an AWA cabin crew is scheduled to fly a certain flight and that flight is CANCELLED -- do they still get paid or a percentage or something? Does it depend on the reason for the cancellation? Any explanation of how that works woudl be helpful. Thanks!

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Would UAL be prevented from adding a segment when the station manager notices bunches of pax sitting around PHX looking to go to LAX, if they just honored the tics and got reimbursed throw the clearinghouse?

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

From the AWA Union Contract Section 3 talking about cancellation pay:

C. CANCELLATION PAY

Subject to the requirements of Guaranteed Reserve set forth in Section 7, Scheduling, Subsection E, Flight Attendants shall receive pay and credit for all hours that are scheduled and subsequently canceled.

Ok, so the AWA F/A's get paid for their cancelled flight. I don't see what they have to greive about. Really. I guess they'd rather give those passengers over to another airline (the COMPETITION, remember!) than to let their brethren at US East keep the customer happy and on the SAME AIRLINE!

Instead of signing over those passengers to another airline (if seats were available) and giving away what little revenue was being generated, we chose to operate an extra section! Wow! Smart, smart, smart! Not only did we save the revenue (although we have to pay ANOTHER crew), we saved hotel and meal voucher expenses and made a bunch of passengers HAPPY -- at Christmas-time no less! Geez, makes me proud to work for this company to do the right thing for the passenger!

 

[wings396]

I know I will be lynched for this but here is my viewpoint:

A plane broke in PHX so a US (east, to be politically correct) plane was used as a substitute. US (east) crews were used to fly this route. Well, they flew this route and were paid to fly this route. Meanwhile, HP crews went nowhere and, thusly, were not paid as they were not flying. Because the aircraft was broken and there were no spares, flight crews were not able to fly and make money which they need to feed themselves and pay rent or mortgage. It is not the fault of the HP crews that the aircraft was broken and there were no spares. This is a SCOPE violation and the crews should be paid for missed time. This is cut and dry and as clear as the nose on your face. -_-

So what is the difference between this and having a XCLD Flt. and giving the Psgrs to another Airline? They wouldn't get paid then either, would they?

 

[luvn737s]

How can you have an extra section of a flight you don't operate ( US PHX-LAX)? If there was sufficient time to arrange spare a/c in PHX then there was enough time to cobble together a LOA to cover such an event so that there was no misunderstanding and the passengers were accomodated.

Also, if this was truly an extra section did it operate at the same time as the original US flight (PHX-PHL, etc.) or at the time of the original HP flight?

It obviously isn't a Subcontracted Revenue Flying situation, since HP didn't charter the flight from US.

And where was US East MEC during all this? Who was it that said "We shall all hang together or we shall all hang separately"? There will come a time when the numbers of US East will not outnumber US West. Whether that will be enough time for the memories of being run over roughshod to fade remains to be seen.

Given that, it does appear that the grievance has merit. But by simply having enough foresight to imagine such a situation arising, all of this heartburn could have been avoided.

It takes alot more effort to undo ill feelings and anxiety than to prevent them in the first place. <_<

 

[UWCactus]

This whole thing is happening because US West had some terrible maintenance issues to deal with and simply did not have the equipment to run extra sections to accomodate the distressed pax. If they had the equipement to do it, they would have operated the flights with original crews, but simply never cancelled the flight. Unless these flights that were operated were pre-planned segments that were created to add to mainline flying, which I don't believe they were, I can't see how this jeopardizes the scope.

This flying was not taking away from the growth of the HP mainline flying, therefore I don't see a problem. I believe it was a company that used any resources avaiable to it, to move the passengers during this holiday period. This probably would not have been the first choice in ways to deal with this, but after last years mess with US Airways, they are trying everything they can to improve upon the experience with US Airways during this time, as all eyes on on this airline to see what will happen.

The US West Union is right to file a grievance if they belieive there is a problem, but if they are doing simply to play hardball...they need to re-think their strategy.

 

[rjh]

So what is the difference between this and having a XCLD Flt. and giving the Psgrs to another Airline? They wouldn't get paid then either, would they?

Yes, if a trip is cancelled, and they can't be rerouted to operate different flights, they ALWAYS get pay protected

 

[allunionsdeceive]

You fail to realize under the CBAs and the FAA HP and US are still two seperate airlines.

A contract violation occured and the company must rectify it and adhered to the CBAs they agreed too.

Bottom line, plain and simple.

You cant take a US/East plane and crew to fly a US/West flight.

No you are wrong. everyone fly's extra sectitions and did not violate CBA the AFA will loss. Period. If Alpa did not file it was all legal. AFA are clueless

The HP AFA have filed a grievance, that shows me a violation has occurred, otherwise no grievance would have been filed.

Since you don't work under their CBA and you are obviously pro-management your judgment is distorted.

Amazing how many people dont care about another employees' CBA and trusts and lets the company do anything they want.

you now work under that CBA