Here is the thing, if we do get full DOH, tell me how it takes YOUR seniority. Your DOH will stay the same, we will just be brought to your equal, no more, no less. Hence the words Fair and Equitable. This is if someone at LLC happened to be hired the same exact day your were at AA (highly unlikely), and that happened to be bidding in your base, (also very unlikely). Yes it would roll some junior AA people into furlough, but junior is junior, and the 2,500+ LLC f/a's who have worked 17-18 yrs+ of nights, holidays, weekends, non routines, etc. etc. etc. should not be junior, by any means.
[blockquote]
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On 12/5/2002 8
43 AM FA Mikey wrote:
Someone who gloats in another persons misery. You are really something else.
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[/blockquote]
Agreed. Perhaps you could share some of that same wisdom with your own people.
As for me, I'm just so "grateful" to be furloughed. Thanks APFA. And Happy Holidays to all the native AA'ers.
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On 12/5/2002 8
43 AM FA Mikey wrote: Someone who gloats in another persons misery. You are really something else.
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[/blockquote]
Agreed. Perhaps you could share some of that same wisdom with your own people.
As for me, I'm just so "grateful" to be furloughed. Thanks APFA. And Happy Holidays to all the native AA'ers.
xsqueezeme
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[blockquote]
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On 12/5/2002 12
01 PM TWAB717 wrote:
Yes it would roll some junior AA people into furlough, but junior is junior, and the 2,500+ LLC f/a's who have worked 17-18 yrs+ of nights, holidays, weekends, non routines, etc. etc. etc. should not be junior, by any means.
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[/blockquote]
yes, yes, yes..but last in first out (repeat until you get the concept).
2500+ LLC fas who should not be junior by any means...hmmm, let's see, working for 17-18 yrs for some defunct company that was competition to AA, as compared to an AA fa working for 2 years, who transferred in from Eagle or Ticketing, who was hired 15 years ago, and had to START all over. Gee, i wonder if all those days and nights, holidays, weekends, non routines, etc etc etc, working for AA in another department SHOULD take a backseat to you just because you worked for TWA?
Junior is junior, that's right, especially if you start your career at AA. anyone else who comes AFTER you deserves no less. whether it be 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, they began their careers at AA. who gives a crap if you spent 17 years in some bankrupt defunct non-existent airline. you came AFTER, that's the whole idea of seniority, you came AFTER ergo you get the same benefits someone who came AFTER gets.
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On 12/5/2002 12
01 PM TWAB717 wrote: Yes it would roll some junior AA people into furlough, but junior is junior, and the 2,500+ LLC f/a's who have worked 17-18 yrs+ of nights, holidays, weekends, non routines, etc. etc. etc. should not be junior, by any means.
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[/blockquote]
yes, yes, yes..but last in first out (repeat until you get the concept).
2500+ LLC fas who should not be junior by any means...hmmm, let's see, working for 17-18 yrs for some defunct company that was competition to AA, as compared to an AA fa working for 2 years, who transferred in from Eagle or Ticketing, who was hired 15 years ago, and had to START all over. Gee, i wonder if all those days and nights, holidays, weekends, non routines, etc etc etc, working for AA in another department SHOULD take a backseat to you just because you worked for TWA?
Junior is junior, that's right, especially if you start your career at AA. anyone else who comes AFTER you deserves no less. whether it be 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, they began their careers at AA. who gives a crap if you spent 17 years in some bankrupt defunct non-existent airline. you came AFTER, that's the whole idea of seniority, you came AFTER ergo you get the same benefits someone who came AFTER gets.
Wow! This thread has gotten really nasty. I think everyone is tweaked to the gills because of the UA bombshell. I know I felt very grim on my flight today.
On the thread "DOH and Bases the Next APFA Concessions" I gave what I felt was a very well-intentioned response to the seniority topic from an APFA member's point-of-view. I have yet to receive any responses from TWAers regarding the points I brought up.
The main points are as follows:
1. The AA BK conspiracy - Was AA behind the previous BKs as well?
2. The APFA/BOD conspiracy - If you were AA management, is it really cost-effective to cross-train maxed-out TWA F/As now when you could pay a 3-4 year AA F/A to fly the same lines?
3. The tyranny of the APFA/BOD - merely acting on the wishes of it's membership. We let them know, without a doubt, what we thought the seniority of TWA F/As should be. This was accomplished through email and phone calls to APFA HDQ. When Kit Bond sponsored the Senate bill, we responded with repeated emails and phone calls to all on the committee as well as our own representatives.
Then there is the joint letter sent by APA, APFA, and the TWU to the powers-that-be saying we opposed the purchase of TWA. AA made you promises and promptly took themselves out of the equation by turning integration over to the unions. We knew where we wanted you seniority-wise from the time the possible deal was announced.
Again, I am not trying to be malicious. I am just trying to present our viewpoint without name-calling. I don't want to see ANY of us on the streets but I don't believe you are owed DOH or slotting. I am one of the many company transfers who would be in Heaven if they received pay seniority. I do not know of a single AA company transfer who believes they deserve DOH seniority for bidding. It is understood that you pay your dues according to occupational seniority.
The industry is in a crisis right now and I'm going to give it my all to make sure customers come back to us. Holidays, weekends, and reserve are a fact of life in this industry and it I accept it because I truly love what I do. For those who cannot abide by those conditions, there is always the US Postal Service or a bank.
On the thread "DOH and Bases the Next APFA Concessions" I gave what I felt was a very well-intentioned response to the seniority topic from an APFA member's point-of-view. I have yet to receive any responses from TWAers regarding the points I brought up.
The main points are as follows:
1. The AA BK conspiracy - Was AA behind the previous BKs as well?
2. The APFA/BOD conspiracy - If you were AA management, is it really cost-effective to cross-train maxed-out TWA F/As now when you could pay a 3-4 year AA F/A to fly the same lines?
3. The tyranny of the APFA/BOD - merely acting on the wishes of it's membership. We let them know, without a doubt, what we thought the seniority of TWA F/As should be. This was accomplished through email and phone calls to APFA HDQ. When Kit Bond sponsored the Senate bill, we responded with repeated emails and phone calls to all on the committee as well as our own representatives.
Then there is the joint letter sent by APA, APFA, and the TWU to the powers-that-be saying we opposed the purchase of TWA. AA made you promises and promptly took themselves out of the equation by turning integration over to the unions. We knew where we wanted you seniority-wise from the time the possible deal was announced.
Again, I am not trying to be malicious. I am just trying to present our viewpoint without name-calling. I don't want to see ANY of us on the streets but I don't believe you are owed DOH or slotting. I am one of the many company transfers who would be in Heaven if they received pay seniority. I do not know of a single AA company transfer who believes they deserve DOH seniority for bidding. It is understood that you pay your dues according to occupational seniority.
The industry is in a crisis right now and I'm going to give it my all to make sure customers come back to us. Holidays, weekends, and reserve are a fact of life in this industry and it I accept it because I truly love what I do. For those who cannot abide by those conditions, there is always the US Postal Service or a bank.
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 11:29:33 PM Cart Pusher wrote:[BR][BR][BR][BR]It may be more appropriate to start signing your messages - [BR][BR]A young Drama Queen with no soul.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Or maybe even: [BR][BR]If you can't be brilliant, be brief! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif'] [/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 11:29:33 PM Cart Pusher wrote:[BR][BR][BR][BR]It may be more appropriate to start signing your messages - [BR][BR]A young Drama Queen with no soul.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Or maybe even: [BR][BR]If you can't be brilliant, be brief! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif'] [/P]
Cart Pusher
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[blockquote]
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On 12/5/2002 11:12:55 PM AAirMale wrote:
A young guy with a soul patch [/P]
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[/blockquote]
It may be more appropriate to start signing your messages -
A young Drama Queen with no soul. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
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On 12/5/2002 11:12:55 PM AAirMale wrote:
A young guy with a soul patch [/P]
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[/blockquote]
It may be more appropriate to start signing your messages -
A young Drama Queen with no soul. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
[P]Brilliant, Captain! Your hypothesis actually does seem to make an enormous amount of sense. That really does explain alot.... Like how your flight attendants ever got the idea that they would actually get their DOH at American. Preposterous! All that lack of oxygen. I suppose 25 years of oxygen deprivation would generate a certain level of ignorance. [/P]
[P]Gees I hope they get regular manicures.[/P]
[P]Thanks for noticing my "decorative" post. Stick around. If you thought that was impressive, you'll LOVE what changes American is bringing to TWA's terminals systemwide. I tell ya, it's gonna take alot more than a splash of color and some bold words to spruce those suckers up. Over 17 years of negligent upkeep really does sneak up on you. That kind of money could really save a job or two.[/P]
[P]Unfortunately, contrary to your suspicions, highlighting and bold letters DIDN'T get any of their attention as they have yet to satisfactorily address my question. However they have managed to talk about pretty much everything else. Must be that lack of oxygen prohibiting them from concentrating. Darned that altitude.[/P]
[P]Say, if a flight attendant really asked you to fly the plane at a lower altitude would you be gullible enough to do it? I, personally, haven't a clue as to how to fly a plane. Then again, I'm not a TWA flight attendant.[/P]
[P]My dearest Danny: Junior is junior? C'mon, you're kidding right? Bankrupt is bankrupt. Unemployment lines are unemployment lines. A rose is a rose. I don't need to tell you how your full DOH will affect my seniority. You've answered that question for yourself. Yes, it WOULD roll some junior AA people into furlough. That is an effect, right? It's a little something I learned in elementary science called cause and effect. Only your cause is a hopeless case. At the risk of sounding redundant let me once again point out that had American decided NOT to buy TWA, long ago you would have flown your LAST of 17-18+ years of nights, holidays, weekends, non routines et al. In a nutshell, being furloughed or concern about your seniority would be a non-issue. Your focus, instead, would be on finding another job. Possibly one where you could just show up and demand seniority. Maybe they would even give you credit for the amount of time spent with TWA! Doesn't that sound dreamy? Furthermore I have yet to understand how DOH at TWA should mean anything to me, other than April 10, 2001. Let me clarify that 25 years at TWA is NOT 25 years at American. 25 years, as well as 100 years at TWA would be 'unemployment line' if it weren't for April 10, 2001. It's not my fault you were adventurous enough to stay with TWA long enough to see it run into the ground. Therefore I don't feel like sharing my seniority with you. Get your own. And if you don't like it here, get it somewhere else. [/P]
[P][BR]A young guy with a soul patch
![P]](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5B%2FP%5D&hash=87aeb4f47b95cce5872086cef0a1f699)
[P]Gees I hope they get regular manicures.[/P]
[P]Thanks for noticing my "decorative" post. Stick around. If you thought that was impressive, you'll LOVE what changes American is bringing to TWA's terminals systemwide. I tell ya, it's gonna take alot more than a splash of color and some bold words to spruce those suckers up. Over 17 years of negligent upkeep really does sneak up on you. That kind of money could really save a job or two.[/P]
[P]Unfortunately, contrary to your suspicions, highlighting and bold letters DIDN'T get any of their attention as they have yet to satisfactorily address my question. However they have managed to talk about pretty much everything else. Must be that lack of oxygen prohibiting them from concentrating. Darned that altitude.[/P]
[P]Say, if a flight attendant really asked you to fly the plane at a lower altitude would you be gullible enough to do it? I, personally, haven't a clue as to how to fly a plane. Then again, I'm not a TWA flight attendant.[/P]
[P]My dearest Danny: Junior is junior? C'mon, you're kidding right? Bankrupt is bankrupt. Unemployment lines are unemployment lines. A rose is a rose. I don't need to tell you how your full DOH will affect my seniority. You've answered that question for yourself. Yes, it WOULD roll some junior AA people into furlough. That is an effect, right? It's a little something I learned in elementary science called cause and effect. Only your cause is a hopeless case. At the risk of sounding redundant let me once again point out that had American decided NOT to buy TWA, long ago you would have flown your LAST of 17-18+ years of nights, holidays, weekends, non routines et al. In a nutshell, being furloughed or concern about your seniority would be a non-issue. Your focus, instead, would be on finding another job. Possibly one where you could just show up and demand seniority. Maybe they would even give you credit for the amount of time spent with TWA! Doesn't that sound dreamy? Furthermore I have yet to understand how DOH at TWA should mean anything to me, other than April 10, 2001. Let me clarify that 25 years at TWA is NOT 25 years at American. 25 years, as well as 100 years at TWA would be 'unemployment line' if it weren't for April 10, 2001. It's not my fault you were adventurous enough to stay with TWA long enough to see it run into the ground. Therefore I don't feel like sharing my seniority with you. Get your own. And if you don't like it here, get it somewhere else. [/P]
[P][BR]A young guy with a soul patch
Its interesting how sensitive these posters are about their years at TWA. No one at any airline really cared about my years at Braniff when I lost my job. And I didn't take that personally. Same for those from Pan Am, Eastern ...etc. Why is it that anyone from TWA deserves more than anyone from these other defunct carriers? I respect that you put in some hard time at TWA. Your paycheck should take that into account. And I like the way they always say that now they have to pay for insurance. What are they actually paying for insurance? I know that my pay stub lists my insurance costs at about $20.00 a month. Does $20/month wipe out a 40% raise? I understand the TWA'ers frustrations with the furloughs. We all are taking a hit with the downsizing.
extwacaptain
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ForkTime2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 843 AM FA Mikey wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 1:12:18 AM ForkTime2002 wrote: [BR][BR][STRONG][FONT face='"Times' size=3 Roman" New]I cant wait to hear you idiots start blubbering when don comes looking for concessions.[/FONT][/STRONG][BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Someone who gloats in another persons misery. You are really something else.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]You will all be suprised when don reaches into your wallets while you are still fighting with yourselves.[/FONT][/STRONG]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 8
43 AM FA Mikey wrote: [P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 1:12:18 AM ForkTime2002 wrote: [BR][BR][STRONG][FONT face='"Times' size=3 Roman" New]I cant wait to hear you idiots start blubbering when don comes looking for concessions.[/FONT][/STRONG][BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Someone who gloats in another persons misery. You are really something else.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]You will all be suprised when don reaches into your wallets while you are still fighting with yourselves.[/FONT][/STRONG]
ForkTime2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 1201 PM TWAB717 wrote:
[P], but junior is junior, and the 2,500+ LLC f/a's who have worked 17-18 yrs+ of nights, holidays, weekends, non routines, etc. etc. etc. should not be junior, by any means.[/P]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]YGBSM!!! [BR][BR]yah 17-18 years of ect ect ect AT TWA.Not at AA...jesus christ,get over the **** already.[BR][BR][/FONT][/STRONG][/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 12
01 PM TWAB717 wrote: [P], but junior is junior, and the 2,500+ LLC f/a's who have worked 17-18 yrs+ of nights, holidays, weekends, non routines, etc. etc. etc. should not be junior, by any means.[/P]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]YGBSM!!! [BR][BR]yah 17-18 years of ect ect ect AT TWA.Not at AA...jesus christ,get over the **** already.[BR][BR][/FONT][/STRONG][/P]
ForkTime2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 9:35:41 AM Winglet wrote:
[P]Forget about ForkTime, Mikey. He's sounds like a scab anyway.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]not a scab dude, just a guy whos airline is already in chapter 11 and has already given big time concessions.and is in danger of not seeing the end of the year with the airline i've been with for 15 years.[/FONT][/STRONG]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 9:35:41 AM Winglet wrote:
[P]Forget about ForkTime, Mikey. He's sounds like a scab anyway.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]not a scab dude, just a guy whos airline is already in chapter 11 and has already given big time concessions.and is in danger of not seeing the end of the year with the airline i've been with for 15 years.[/FONT][/STRONG]
BillLumbergh
Veteran
Going back a few posts.....Lets try to remain on topic and not deviate onto the topics of oxygen deprivation or caffene intake.
