Did everyone leave?

[WeAAsles]

Do your own homework. I have and already have read all the details.

You always return with this answer when you have no leg to stand on. The homework was already done and that’s why you have no over elongated response.

 

[WeAAsles]

LuLu, This is what ya get when dealing with uneducated folks, especially when they are only here on a mission. They haven't changed since they first came on, removed and returned. The twins are simply bored. Do we really wanna waste our time with these two any longer?
I say time for us to move on, let them do what ever they wish. Time to put these morons on ignore. Have a nice life twins...

Edit by me: Now for a more peaceful dialog. LuLu, you might try the ignore feature, I did.

Tsk Tsk. Resorting to name calling only bolsters the fact that you have no ammunition to win the debate. It’s also improper board etiquette as you know. Perhaps you should consider reporting yourself?

 

[iluvaa]

Tsk Tsk. Resorting to name calling only bolsters the fact that you have no ammunition to win the debate. It’s also improper board etiquette as you know. Perhaps you should consider reporting yourself?

Wow in the last few pages you called someone a loser with memes at least twice. You do know the 5 people reading this board laugh at your stupidity. You union thugs are all the same, complete losers

 

[WeAAsles]

Wow in the last few pages you called someone a loser with memes at least twice. You do know the 5 people reading this board laugh at your stupidity. You union thugs are all the same, complete losers

Knew you’d be the next one that couldn’t resist. 😂

Signed: Proud Union Thug.

 

[JimmyBop]

Do your own homework. I have and already have read all the details.

You think I don't know what happened? That's cute!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You think I don't know what happened? That's cute!

Hell, I don't think you know what's happening within 5 feet of you right now.

 

[JimmyBop]

No, not at all and you know that. I said AMFA is a better representing entity because they only focus on the Mechanic and Related group. A very, very one industry focused, instead of, multiple different industries like the asso at AA represents (12+) with a rather very large main focus on fleet and other larger groups than the Mechanic and Related. I never said the AA'ers were not represented, period. I never said we would grow by only 14 people. I said our eng shop employees will grow by over 14 in the year 2022. This does not account for the thousands they are still hiring from OVER5K last year within the last few months and again this year will be over 8-9K more. My 14 reference was simply only on one two shifts Days and an added graveyard coming later this year and then more as needed to keep all the new work added flowing efficiently and on time.

Wrong again skippy and see, there ya go again with the twisting and misinformation. AMFA is growing way more than the 14 in our eng shop and you know it. Nice try there skippy, ain't gonna work...

Hey skippy, how did things go for AMFA at jetblue?

 

[WeAAsles]

AMFA again fails to understand the meaning of craft and class and is denied by the NMB​

February 23, 2022​

Another Fail.​

This determination addresses the application filed by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) alleging a representation dispute pursuant to the Railway Labor Act (RLA), 45 U.S.C. §152, Ninth (Section 2, Ninth),1 among “Maintenance Controllers” at JetBlue Airways Corporation (JetBlue or Carrier).
For the reasons set forth below, the National Mediation Board (Board or NMB) finds that “Maintenance Controllers” is not a distinct craft or class at JetBlue but rather are part of the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class and, therefore, dismisses the application.
CONCLUSION
The Board finds that JetBlue’s “Maintenance Controllers” do not constitute a separate craft or class but are part of the Mechanics and Related Employees craft of class. AMFA’s submission of authorization cards for Maintenance Controllers does not constitute an adequate showing of interest for the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class of which they are a part. Accordingly, NMB File No. CR-7230 is converted to NMB Case No. R-7575 and dismissed pursuant to §1206.4(b) of the NMB Rules.
By direction of the NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD

Read the Decision

 

[WeAAsles]

So let me see if I got this straight here? In the findings the Airline recognizes 1300 employees who are part of the Total Maintenance class and craft. AMFA wanted to section out one small group with only 30 people and filed to represent with 80% of that group (24 cards)

I’m serious here. What an absolute bunch of Bozo’s. 😂

So how much did Seeham siphon (rip-off) to make that asinine filing? What a racket that Lawyer got going on. What a scam.

 

[JimmyBop]

Jetblue management will probably slaughter those MCTs now.

 

[WeAAsles]

Jetblue management will probably slaughter those MCTs now.

Brett and his AMFA cronies (Lee Seeham) don’t care. They continue to make these frivolous filings and then charge their currently represented groups for that work. Personally I also think they do this crap just to make it look like they’re working for the Industry Mechanics out there. And they always respond with these goofy fluff writings after they’re shot down.

AMFA

www.amfanational.org

 

[WeAAsles]

Here we go again. Let’s see how long we have to wait for this newest one to blow up in their faces like all the others?

AMFA

www.amfanational.org

 

[topDawg]

The time comes? You can't be serious can you? And join the union that just saw ALL 737-700 NG engine overhaul work at Southwest get outsourced to a vendor in Miami? ALL OF IT GONE! And you think that is a winning formula? You think the younger AMTs at AA want to be stuck on graveyard shifts for the rest of their careers after AMFA gives away the store like they always do? That's if they even have jobs should AMFA come to town! You are delusional. And before you go on your rant against the Association, (best contract in the industry btw,) tell us how giving away all that work on a major part of your fleet is a positive thing. Because after you try to explain that I'll have more current and past AMFA failings for you to defend.

Thats a lot of talk from someone's who union has gone from overhauling every engine in their fleet going all the way down to one.

Stop...AMFA had plenty of opportunities to get that work back...Just stop with the argument that it is somebody else' fault. Its AMFA's fault. Period.

You got any proof Southwest was willing to put the capital into building the facilities, buying the tooling, hiring the staff to start overhauling engines? Or any proof GE was willing to give Southwest a license to do so?

I have a feeling you have no clue what it would take for Southwest to bring in engine overhaul work and frankly I would be shocked if AMFA or any other union could work out a deal with them to do so unless someone at Southwest wakes up and decides they want to get into the MRO business.

Whatever JB, it's the truth period.
BTW AMFA did bring in more engine work late 2021 and even added headcount to the day shift engine shop (doubled the headcount) on the annual bid for 2022, AND once they get the official approval from HQ they will be adding a 3rd shift (never had it before with any other union representation) starting with 8 headcount mechanics and a couple leads.
The new graveyard shift will be handling all the "NEW" work brought into the engine shop for live overnight maint and repairs. We are also being told that even more headcount with different days off will also be coming into the Engine Shop once they get the full picture of an accurate count of how many total is needed to keep all the new work running smooth and on time back to the gates. As many as up to 14 new positions will be added in total once all said and done, then they will relook at any further adjustments on an as needed basis.
GE has had that long term contract with Southwest since day one with GE. It is part of the contract that Southwest has with them for going with their engines on our wings. Cannot change the GE and Southwest contract as no one can except for GE and Southwest. AMFA has no control over those contracts at all as the teamsters gave all that to them over 30 years ago and the co nor GE will ever allow that to go away, period. GE and Southwest took full advantage of the move and made the contracts untouchable by any representing union of the airline mechanics or employees.
You really should do some deep homework prior to posting as all you have posted about our engine shop is not even within AMFA's control. However adding the headcount, adding positions, adding shifts and adding maint and repair work is and was done yet again for the new year 2022 as noted on our annual bids and will grow further in mid to late 2022 even more.
Thanks for the opportunity to share the growth news with you within our Engine Shops.

not quite. Its a high mountain to climb and IMO AMFA has not shown any interest in doing what it would take for you guys to bring engine work in house.
First thing that would have to happen would be letting Southwest have unlicensed mechanics and other rolls. For example, Delta has three main groups of people in the engine shop. MUEs, ASMs and AMTs (and then the obvious stuff like inspectors, machinist etc.)
MUEs start out at like 14 and hour. They are the ones moving parts from shop to shop and they are also the parts washers.
ASMs do a lot of work in shops like the blade shop, plating etc. Those shops have AMTs as well. Then the engine line themselves I believe have some ASMs.
AMTs do some shop work and most of the engine line and test cell work.
but the "everyone to touch a tool must be a mechanic and have an A&P" mentality that AMFA has wont cut it. Simple fact is, Southwest just couldn't compete cost wise with that.
But as to the contract with GE, they have been a big pain in the ass lately about letting carriers do the work. They have there select few they allow MROs deals but thats it. You can ask Delta. Delta would probably have Maxes or have maxes on order if GE would let them overhaul LEAPs and all the components of the engine. Thats one of the reason they are building up Pratt and Rolls engines.
Southwest might be able to change GE's mind because of how many engines they have and how loyal they have to be to GE though.


The one thing I think AMFA and Southwest have truly f**ked up on over the years is not working together to make Southwest a huge MRO. No frickin way could they not offer competitive costs on big ticket 737 items. They couldn't do much in the airframe world but engines, APUs, landing gear, avionics etc. I don't see how any would be able to compete with them on pure volume (as long as AMFA was smart enough to keep their cost in line.)

Never had a 3rd shift before...very telling. Hilarious actually. Don't forget there are more AA mechanics in Tulsa on their day off than 2 combined shifts anywhere at SWA. And you have almost as many planes as we do. AMFA is an abysmal joke when it comes to stopping work from leaving that should be yours....

Do you even realize that you guys agreed to a contract that allows American to completely shut down your engine shop over the coming years?
Lets look at a little bit of history.
American goes from doing every engine they operate in house, JT8, CFM56, CF6, RB211, Trent 800.
now out of all the engines they operate (V2500, CFM56, GEnX, LEAP, Trent 800, GE90) they work the CFM56 only.

and on top of that, you guys were dumb enough to sign a contract that singles out three engine types, (JT8, CF6, CFM56) that are all dying engines and engines that American is actively retiring. Guess what happens to your engine shop, per your contract, when American stops flying CFM56 engines? Thats right, SWAMT gets to get on this form and point out to you and weAAsles that GE is doing all you engine work on the LEAP, GEnX and GE90. Tulsa loses a metric s**t ton of engine related jobs on top of it.

In 2016 GE was able to expand on their agreement with SWA and add even more planes to the outsourced work that AMFA could not capture. But don’t throw too much shade at Swampy, he did say they were able to secure a whole 14 “In Total” new jobs to their roster. Yes he did write 14.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2016/07/19/ge-in-new-deal-with-southwest-airlines.html

And how many jobs has your union been able to add because of scope gains?
Oh thats right, they have, even out of bankruptcy, managed to sell away jobs with every contract. Hell your bankruptcy scope was better than your current scope.

AMFA has been the ONLY union, the ONLY one, that has added work since 2000. IBT at United, TWU/IAM at American have both allowed their companies to outsource more and more.
Hell the only reason you are doing CFM56-5B work is because American was nice enough to insource it.

Oh and lets not forget you guys also let them have a sunset date of the PIT maintenance base and IIRC don't have a single avionics shop protected by your contract. I mean, its a good thing aircraft aren't becoming more avionic based. Don't need to work on them, going the way of the hose and buggy am I right?


But yeah, please, go a head, tell the class how badly AMFA has screwed the industry. TWU/IAM/IBT have been some scope protectors!
Oh wait, I know what it is. People like you saw the upcoming A&P shortage and decided that if they go ahead and sign away all their work, it gives American a way to deal with it. Protects you, protects the company and makes sure any new A&Ps get to live the wonder life of working for a MRO. How nice of you to bail airline management out, yet again. 😂😂

 

[swamt]

Thats a lot of talk from someone's who union has gone from overhauling every engine in their fleet going all the way down to one.

You got any proof Southwest was willing to put the capital into building the facilities, buying the tooling, hiring the staff to start overhauling engines? Or any proof GE was willing to give Southwest a license to do so?

I have a feeling you have no clue what it would take for Southwest to bring in engine overhaul work and frankly I would be shocked if AMFA or any other union could work out a deal with them to do so unless someone at Southwest wakes up and decides they want to get into the MRO business.

not quite. Its a high mountain to climb and IMO AMFA has not shown any interest in doing what it would take for you guys to bring engine work in house.
First thing that would have to happen would be letting Southwest have unlicensed mechanics and other rolls. For example, Delta has three main groups of people in the engine shop. MUEs, ASMs and AMTs (and then the obvious stuff like inspectors, machinist etc.)
MUEs start out at like 14 and hour. They are the ones moving parts from shop to shop and they are also the parts washers.
ASMs do a lot of work in shops like the blade shop, plating etc. Those shops have AMTs as well. Then the engine line themselves I believe have some ASMs.
AMTs do some shop work and most of the engine line and test cell work.
but the "everyone to touch a tool must be a mechanic and have an A&P" mentality that AMFA has wont cut it. Simple fact is, Southwest just couldn't compete cost wise with that.
But as to the contract with GE, they have been a big pain in the ass lately about letting carriers do the work. They have there select few they allow MROs deals but thats it. You can ask Delta. Delta would probably have Maxes or have maxes on order if GE would let them overhaul LEAPs and all the components of the engine. Thats one of the reason they are building up Pratt and Rolls engines.
Southwest might be able to change GE's mind because of how many engines they have and how loyal they have to be to GE though.


The one thing I think AMFA and Southwest have truly f**ked up on over the years is not working together to make Southwest a huge MRO. No frickin way could they not offer competitive costs on big ticket 737 items. They couldn't do much in the airframe world but engines, APUs, landing gear, avionics etc. I don't see how any would be able to compete with them on pure volume (as long as AMFA was smart enough to keep their cost in line.)

Do you even realize that you guys agreed to a contract that allows American to completely shut down your engine shop over the coming years?
Lets look at a little bit of history.
American goes from doing every engine they operate in house, JT8, CFM56, CF6, RB211, Trent 800.
now out of all the engines they operate (V2500, CFM56, GEnX, LEAP, Trent 800, GE90) they work the CFM56 only.

and on top of that, you guys were dumb enough to sign a contract that singles out three engine types, (JT8, CF6, CFM56) that are all dying engines and engines that American is actively retiring. Guess what happens to your engine shop, per your contract, when American stops flying CFM56 engines? Thats right, SWAMT gets to get on this form and point out to you and weAAsles that GE is doing all you engine work on the LEAP, GEnX and GE90. Tulsa loses a metric s**t ton of engine related jobs on top of it.


And how many jobs has your union been able to add because of scope gains?
Oh thats right, they have, even out of bankruptcy, managed to sell away jobs with every contract. Hell your bankruptcy scope was better than your current scope.

AMFA has been the ONLY union, the ONLY one, that has added work since 2000. IBT at United, TWU/IAM at American have both allowed their companies to outsource more and more.
Hell the only reason you are doing CFM56-5B work is because American was nice enough to insource it.

Oh and lets not forget you guys also let them have a sunset date of the PIT maintenance base and IIRC don't have a single avionics shop protected by your contract. I mean, its a good thing aircraft aren't becoming more avionic based. Don't need to work on them, going the way of the hose and buggy am I right?


But yeah, please, go a head, tell the class how badly AMFA has screwed the industry. TWU/IAM/IBT have been some scope protectors!
Oh wait, I know what it is. People like you saw the upcoming A&P shortage and decided that if they go ahead and sign away all their work, it gives American a way to deal with it. Protects you, protects the company and makes sure any new A&Ps get to live the wonder life of working for a MRO. How nice of you to bail airline management out, yet again. 😂😂

When you quoted my post starting with, "not quite", not sure if you meant the added engine slots and work, but it is true they were added for 2022. Added 7-10 slots to the day shift crews and 2 leads, I think. And they did at first add 14 more to an additionally added grave yard shift for our increased overnight maint coming in on RON's line maint.
The added new GY shift had to get axed for the 2022 annual due to procedures were not correctly followed with HQ approval of the added shift and headcount. The bean counters were never notified as well as to the cost evaluations as well as shop tooling increases and added management too. Once all that gets fixed, the added shift, headcounts, leads and sups will go forward. Question is how long all that will take, we have heard sometime in 2022. But, if I were a betting man I bet they move some added headcount to the H. RON, Line and overnight maint until fixed, and probably will wait until 2023 annual as it will be much easier on our office folks to do on an annual rather than middle of year with all the trickling and movements on mid year bids.

Also glad to see someone else recognize that AMFA has been the only Mechanics union to add more work in house since the early 2000's. All the while the other unions at the other carriers have been agreeing to cease or reduce headcounts, positions and in house work.
On the engine shop example you gave about SWA gearing up a full blown fully operating engine shop was dead on. The cost would be way too much, and SWA is better off doing the current maint agreement they have had with GE from day one, and as a reminder AMFA did not represent the Mechanics at that time.

Ever since I put those two on ignore I no longer see their post. All I see when you posted was that you were responding to them, but not what they posted, so I did read what you had to say to them and they were all dead on. Most everyone knows what really has taken place in our industry so they can blow all the smoke they want, no one believes them anymore anyway.

 

[swamt]

On a side note topDawg;
AMFA is adding more members as well as gaining new contracts. The most under the current AMFA National Director, good job there Bret...

For the other two wannabees; What is your union doing for the industry???
All done in early 2022, and there's more...

AMFA

www.amfanational.org

AMFA

www.amfanational.org

AMFA

www.amfanational.org

AMFA

www.amfanational.org

AMFA

www.amfanational.org