Did everyone leave?

[WeAAsles]

Curious, did they go force majeure?

They don’t have to go Force Majeure against them since they have no Union and no Contract. They are all (Except Pilots) “At will” employees that Delta can do whatever they want any time they want with/to them.

Force Majeure

Force majeure is a concept in contract law that describes a clause, included in many contracts, that frees the parties to the contract from

corporatefinanceinstitute.com

 

[delldude]

They don’t have to go Force Majeure against them since they have no Union and no Contract. They are all (Except Pilots) “At will” employees that Delta can do whatever they want any time they want with/to them.

Force Majeure

Force majeure is a concept in contract law that describes a clause, included in many contracts, that frees the parties to the contract from

corporatefinanceinstitute.com

Didn't realize that. We had FM stuck up our asses during 911.

 

[WeAAsles]

Didn't realize that. We had FM stuck up our asses during 911.

Every unionized workgroup in the industry got hit with it. But it doesn’t give any Company free reign to make unilateral changes to our contracts. It just gives them the right basically to furlough.

 

[delldude]

Every unionized workgroup in the industry got hit with it. But it doesn’t give any Company free reign to make unilateral changes to our contracts. It just gives them the right basically to furlough.

That must have been how they furloughed the DC-9, MD-80 fleets, and all the JT-8 engine work.

 

[Kev3188]

I havent seen an effective organizing drive at delta for the ramp. Mechanics could also be interested.
But dont you think layoffs are coming? I wonder if these airlines can stay out of bankruptcy?
When do they start asking for paycuts?
Members wanna know.
Fwiw, i like our fleet contract and imo i dont think we should give up cuts at least or until in bankruptcy or in 2 years w a buyout that i can take! Lol. Bias indeed!

The IAM snatched defeat from the jaws of victory at DL. One blunder after another. It was tough to watch.
If layoffs are coming, no one’s told DL; we’re hiring all over the system.

Curious, did they go force majeure?

Negative. I was sure that would happen, but once the government aid was approved, it was off the table pretty quickly.

 

[WeAAsles]

The IAM snatched defeat from the jaws of victory at DL. One blunder after another. It was tough to watch.
If layoffs are coming, no one’s told DL; we’re hiring all over the system.

Negative. I was sure that would happen, but once the government aid was approved, it was off the table pretty quickly.

delldude don’t get confused by this guys answer here. They are not subject to Delta having to declare any Force Majeure to trigger furloughs. Since Delta had no Union contracts to contend with most of their employees had no advocacy against management’s decision to chop all FT hours down from 40 to 30 hours per week instead. That equates to a loss of one full week of pay per month. I know that lasted for several months and I’m not sure what Delta did with their Ready Reserve ground workers? If their Ready Reserves were not given any hours that’s the same thing as a furlough.

At AA we kept all of our hours but all groups were subject to their contractual minimum hours. And at one point when the Government did not extend further aid on time the furloughs began. When the Government did come through though all were brought back with all of the back pay they were entitled to. Thankfully by that time a lot of work had returned so it affected much less than it could have if it had came earlier.

 

[JimmyBop]

You seem to be letting your emotions get the better of you now. I have no interest in getting into the AMFA back and forth crapola in case you haven’t noticed. People have been wasting their time with that chit for years now.

But AGAIN you ignored all that money that goes every year to the Seeham Seeham Meltz and Peterson Law Firm. Like I said before AMFA is nothing more than a cash cow for a shyster Law Firm that’s raked in Millions over the years from schmucks who aren’t educated enough to see and stop it.

I guess SWA Mechanics are just too dumb to see it for what it is. But hey at least 2500 or so of them got jobs there right? Was it Lee Seeham who got them those 5 or 7 new jobs, 😂 “PURE GROWTH”

No my not quite part is how the engine contracts work. In theory, Southwest could end that contract tomorrow. GE can't keep Southwest from bringing the work in-house if that is what Southwest/AMFA decide*. Southwest would likely just have to pay to terminate the contract early.

*I saw that to a point. GE could certainly fight Southwest over things like overhaul rights, repair approvals and things of that nature. I don't see GE being stupid enough to do so, considering how large of a customer Southwest is.

So is that that you can't expect reality, don't know what you are talking about or don't know your own contract?

read what I said to you. Your union has given your company the rights to sunset your engine shop (and supports shops that go with it) You union has also given your airline the right to close PIT completely.
On the engine front, considering American lets GE handle all of its next generation engines already (GEnX, GE90, LEAP....ironically enough the literal same type of deal Southwest has with GE you are preaching to AMFA members about)
So today you have 15K in M&R* but you wont, unless American decides to be nice or your union decides to suck less, in the coming years as American drops engine work. (and likely other backshop work not protected by your sorry USair scope.)


*and your M&R numbers aren't comparable. I don't know about Southwest but just a quick example. At Delta, at least ~2,000 of the people on your list aren't a part of TechOps. GSE maintenance is an ACS devision.
but of course your union is well known for trying to include people in M&R that aren't M&R but will vote to keep the joke IAM/TWU on property.
Also, Southwest isn't going to have the numbers of a Delta, American, United etc. Thank that single fleet. I also covered a big reason why WN has lower numbers in my previous post.

And yes, AMFA is the only union in the last 20 years to add work back into its CBA. Your excuse of "well they started from nothing" doesn't matter. They still have added contractually protected work. American and United can't say that as every contract signed has had some kind of scope erosion in it.
And AMFA has added that work back all while the IBT, IAM, TWU continue to set mechanics back as far as scope goes. Frankly I can't wait to see how they blow this mechanics shortage. We should be gaining work back but unions and airlines don't want that.

It's quite hilarious that you focus on past issues at AA but when the NWA strike is brought up you pivot to no longer want to bring up the past. Bottom line is that today SWA has almost as many planes as does AA and has a trivial amount of AMTs in comparison. And will NEVER have what they should under AMFA.

 

[Kev3188]

...and I’m not sure what Delta did with their Ready Reserve ground workers?

They made 'em all benefitted.

Next time just ask instead of showing your a$$. Total JV move.

 

[swamt]

I havent seen an effective organizing drive at delta for the ramp. Mechanics could also be interested.
But dont you think layoffs are coming? I wonder if these airlines can stay out of bankruptcy?
When do they start asking for paycuts?
Members wanna know.
Fwiw, i like our fleet contract and imo i dont think we should give up cuts at least or until in bankruptcy or in 2 years w a buyout that i can take! Lol. Bias indeed!

Not sure what we will all be facing in the coming months ahead. Fuel prices are going sky high. If not hedged, yes I would expect some more troubles for the airline industry. I know my carrier is approx 65% fuel hedged for the rest of this year, Alaska is also decently hedged at approx 50% for the year as well. No knowledge of AA, Delta or United's % of hedging, but would be interesting to know.
Layoffs? Paycuts? IDK. I would expect the airlines to take certain measures within the co. coffers to unload some wasteful spending and cut backs first, then they will mention any CEO's and officers to volunteer or forego some of their pay, when we see all that start happening then we will start seeing the request for temporary paycuts being asked for, from employees and requested meetings (nego) with unions on some relief. Letg's all hope and pray it doesn't get that bad.
The reason you haven't seen an effective organized drive at Delta is because the second the employees start hinting at bringing in or looking at going union at Delta, the co. fires up their super anti-union propaganda machine and it is a good one to say the least. After starting their propaganda machine they will take in all the info and if they deem the desire of the employee group's will is strong enough to at least call upon a union entity to come in and organize, they will draw up an agreement with their employee group to adjust what ever they need to adjust and work with them to better the relationship which will usually always include promised increases in pay, safety issues and taking better care of employees needs in order to keep the unions at bay and out of Delta. Delta is the KING of anti-union propaganda IMO...

 

[swamt]

The IAM snatched defeat from the jaws of victory at DL. One blunder after another. It was tough to watch.
If layoffs are coming, no one’s told DL; we’re hiring all over the system.

Negative. I was sure that would happen, but once the government aid was approved, it was off the table pretty quickly.

Kinda what I thought Kev. We are hiring too. To much of an employee shortage currently, plus we have several cities soon to be opening new hangars with new maint lines and more work being brought in house. I would think the airlines have enough cushion to ride this one out as well as with their fuel hedging helping out as well. Don't think we will see anything this year, but, never say never in the airline industry.
Any guesses on which airline will feel it first? Worst?? My guess is on any of them that fly to and from and near the areas where the fighting is going on.

 

[WeAAsles]

They made 'em all benefitted.

Next time just ask instead of showing your a$$. Total JV move.

Uh yea. Even you know that the RR program ended “after” people began returning to flying and “after” you were forced to give your Company back around $17,000 in pay and benefits.

Hey but I’m really happy you got to play with your kids and ride your bicycle during that time. Who needs $$ anyway right.

BTW in my Station they gave us an extra “paid” day off each week for about 3 Months. So I only had to go into the Airport for 32 hours a week and still got paid for 40 hours. Sorry 😢 you can’t say the same.

Now run off and carry some more water for management for your pat on the ***.

 

[delldude]

delldude don’t get confused by this guys answer here. They are not subject to Delta having to declare any Force Majeure to trigger furloughs. Since Delta had no Union contracts to contend with most of their employees had no advocacy against management’s decision to chop all FT hours down from 40 to 30 hours per week instead.

I'm not confused by his answer. Actually confused by yours. You said:

Every unionized workgroup in the industry got hit with it. But it doesn’t give any Company free reign to make unilateral changes to our contracts. It just gives them the right basically to furlough.

People were furloughed, and work was eliminated forever. All under force majeure.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm not confused by his answer. Actually confused by yours. You said:



People were furloughed, and work was eliminated forever. All under force majeure.

No “work/scope” was lost under Force Majeure. Work/Scope is lost under concessionary negotiations or even under normal RLA Section 6 negotiations where something may be given up in exchange for something else or during a Bankruptcy which just about everyone in the Legacy Airline Industry has experienced.

 

[swamt]

I'm not confused by his answer. Actually confused by yours. You said:



People were furloughed, and work was eliminated forever. All under force majeure.

It took the forced majeure to do it at your carrier. And no, the asso at AA was not in FM, it was mentioned in talks but once the gov assistance talks started to flow, AA pulled all talk of FM off the table and the asso still agreed to the concessions with the co against the membership. Why that asso didn't fight more or at least tell the co that it would take FM to force the concessions upon their membership instead of coming to an agreement WITH the co. pathetic to say the least. One of the biggest reasons for the membership at AA to change their union representation and get out of the asso that represents way too many groups (12+) and never focus on the Mechanic and Related only. Instead they focus on the largest group in the asso which is fleet. It really is a no brainer that they need to get into a class and craft representational union for the Mechanic and Related only. All the Pilots, F/A's and other groups do the same type of representation so why not the Mechanics and Related at AA???

 

[WeAAsles]

It took the forced majeure to do it at your carrier. And no, the asso at AA was not in FM, it was mentioned in talks but once the gov assistance talks started to flow, AA pulled all talk of FM off the table and the asso still agreed to the concessions with the co against the membership. Why that asso didn't fight more or at least tell the co that it would take FM to force the concessions upon their membership instead of coming to an agreement WITH the co. pathetic to say the least. One of the biggest reasons for the membership at AA to change their union representation and get out of the asso that represents way too many groups (12+) and never focus on the Mechanic and Related only. Instead they focus on the largest group in the asso which is fleet. It really is a no brainer that they need to get into a class and craft representational union for the Mechanic and Related only. All the Pilots, F/A's and other groups do the same type of representation so why not the Mechanics and Related at AA???

Doesn’t Lee Seeham already make (bilk, scam) enough money from decent hard working blue collar workers already?