DELTA TO GET FULL SENIORITY

...and one more thing, will US AFA be forced to give former Western and PanAm flight attendants their original (not Delta) DOH? Seeing as the good people at DL made all of them reapply for their jobs and then stapled them to the bottom of the list if they were "lucky" enough to get hired. Sorry, if this actually goes through (God forbid!), I'll be pretty pi*sed. As I said before, why is it I paid union dues for 19 years? Not one Delta flight attendant (except those who worked at Western and PanAm) has ever paid a dime of dues. Suddenly they get the same representation as me? What?!!? If I stayed here (which I have no plans of doing) for the "merger", as an original US flight attendant, I would not only drop in seniority, but my base would shrink as all the flying was transferred to ATL. Tell me again about what is the "right thing to do"?
 
CLTBWIDAYSYR said:
...and one more thing, will US AFA be forced to give former Western and PanAm flight attendants their original (not Delta) DOH? Seeing as the good people at DL made all of them reapply for their jobs and then stapled them to the bottom of the list if they were "lucky" enough to get hired. Sorry, if this actually goes through (God forbid!), I'll be pretty pi*sed. As I said before, why is it I paid union dues for 19 years? Not one Delta flight attendant (except those who worked at Western and PanAm) has ever paid a dime of dues. Suddenly they get the same representation as me? What?!!? If I stayed here (which I have no plans of doing) for the "merger", as an original US flight attendant, I would not only drop in seniority, but my base would shrink as all the flying was transferred to ATL. Tell me again about what is the "right thing to do"?
Click to expand...
Maybe you should investigate what you're talking about as WA employees got immediate full seniority and PA was phased into full seniority over a period of a few years ....they did however get screwed on the pensions, getting what they accrued under their original employment until merger time with DL, then accruing DL pension time from date of merger.
 
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  • #79
I love all these DOH preachers. They say DOH is the only way, but when they go to that union hall they will vote to staple. It's called the law of the jungle. Delta is mostly non-union and they will be placed at the bottom of the food chain. It's the truth. So,why don't you USAIR folks stop the B.S. and admit that Delta people are going to get a staple job?
 
safety stud said:
My my my.... Such attitude...

... Bearing this in mind... US/W F/A's are going to have it the roughest... However... The look on the bright side... We will be a global carrier of great reach... North America-South America-Europe-Asia... Quit looking at what is in front of you. Look at the wonderful outlook this airline could have in a few years.
Second. Merging the best of all three flight attendant agreements will give all of us a boost in pay and bennies. DP stated he would want to merge the best of all agreements to get labor in line in quick order...

Third...
Give this a chance... Don't be so down... this could work out best for all...
Click to expand...

All of whom? Certainly not those who have been furloughed and left behind for over 5 years now!

I, for one hope this merger does NOT happen. I have read time and time again on these boards, "Don't worry...you will be back" ad nauseum! Should this proposed merger with DL come to fruition...the furloughees of over 5 years now will get left behind one last time...and this time it will likely be for good.
 
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
I love all these DOH preachers. They say DOH is the only way, but when they go to that union hall they will vote to staple. It's called the law of the jungle. Delta is mostly non-union and they will be placed at the bottom of the food chain. It's the truth. So,why don't you USAIR folks stop the B.S. and admit that Delta people are going to get a staple job?

What? No more Mgr. to stear F/A's away from union organising? I guess we shall see! Mgmt. always has an agenda and "Oh My Gosh!" doesn't always work with the "rank and file". Perhaps voting down unionization will be a huge bite in the ass!
Click to expand...
 
Ever notice how it's the more senior group who tauts DOH as being the most "fair" way to integrate?

For your perusal here's ALPA Merger Policy:
a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

Notice how the words "DOH" are not used. That's because DOH may or may not abide by those five goals. Fairness may only be approriately judged by a neutral outsider.
 
superG said:
Maybe you should investigate what you're talking about as WA employees got immediate full seniority and PA was phased into full seniority over a period of a few years ....they did however get screwed on the pensions, getting what they accrued under their original employment until merger time with DL, then accruing DL pension time from date of merger.
Click to expand...
From the NY Court of Appeals, 12/17/97:
After Pan Am's bankruptcy declaration in the summer of 1991, it entered into an Asset Purchase Agreement with Delta, by which Delta acquired a substantial portion of Pan Am's assets. Delta also agreed to hire approximately 6,000 Pan Am employees, predicated on specific criteria. These included seniority, language proficiency, personal interviews, and satisfaction of the least restrictive of the Delta or Pan Am small to medium weight standards referenced in Delta's height/weight charts.

The present dispute ultimately arrives at this Court as a result of Delta's not hiring ten former Pan Am employees. Notably, Delta interviewed more than 2,600 Pan Am flight attendants, made job offers to approximately 2,000, and ultimately hired approximately 1,800. The complainants appellants are former Pan Am flight attendants and pursers with at least 14 years of experience at the time Pan Am ceased its operations. They filed individual administrative complaints against Delta with the State Division of Human Rights, alleging unlawful employment discrimination. Some alleged discrimination on the basis of age, sex or a perceived disability -- weight -- or a combination of these categories. Some also complained of discrimination on the basis of national origin, marital status, and race.

Following investigations, an Administrative Law Judge determined that the complainants should be reinstated with back pay and damages for mental anguish and humiliation. In particular, the ALJ found (1) no Federal preemption; (2) discrimination of various kinds; (3) violations based on Delta's preemployment physical examinations; (4) no bona fide occupational qualifications relating to Delta's weight requirements and preemployment physical examinations; and (5) unlawful preemployment inquiries into applicants' age, disability, marital status, gender, or national origin.

It should be noted that so demeaning and insidious were the DL interviews for PanAm employees, that one NY Newsday front page headline read "We Love to PRY and it Shows". Questions in the interview included, "Have you ever terminated a pregnancy?" and "Have you ever used the drug AZT?"
 
DL's personnel office was reorganized after that fiasco.

However, no one in either the PA or WA flight attendant groups was stapled. In both cases, there was a ratio merge of the acquired group into the DL group. I do not remember the specifics, but the very top of the DL list (the sacred cows) was protected in one or both transactions.

The spin that we got was it was to ensure that both groups were able to hold similar schedules after the merge.

In my case as a DL employee, I moved backward in seniority and the quality of my line.

Keep in mind that DL management designed and implemented the seniority integration plan. In case of the Western merger, the afa took it to arbitration and lost.

I am not sure about the Pan Am transaction, but the former WA flight attendants were offered an annuity to make up the difference in pension accrual.
 
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
I love all these DOH preachers. They say DOH is the only way, but when they go to that union hall they will vote to staple. It's called the law of the jungle. Delta is mostly non-union and they will be placed at the bottom of the food chain. It's the truth. So,why don't you USAIR folks stop the B.S. and admit that Delta people are going to get a staple job?
Click to expand...
You are wrong about the US Airways employees. They have always supported DOH , even when it did not affect them. That is what unionism is all about, but you have heard this before. Why do you keep commenting about this when you are not involved in this? You work for AA. What is your point? Why not be happy for people?
 
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joanjet said:
You are wrong about the US Airways employees. They have always supported DOH , even when it did not affect them. That is what unionism is all about, but you have heard this before. Why do you keep commenting about this when you are not involved in this? You work for AA. What is your point? Why not be happy for people?
Click to expand...

I'm commenting about this because: I'm sick and tired hearing about how the AA people stuck it to the TWA folks. Allegany-Mohawk was followed to the letter as far as the mechanics and fleet service was concerned. Even the APFA gave TWA F/A's "super" seniority at former TWA bases. The pilot's even did some "dovetailing" to some extent. How was anyone supposed to know 9/11 was going to happen and mess everything up?

Alot of posters on this board have bashed AA'ers over this sticky seniority issue and now it's their turn to get bashed and they are complaining?


joanjet said:
You are wrong about the US Airways employees. They have always supported DOH.
Click to expand...

That's a bunch of B.S. and you know it! USAIR employees were the reason the ALLEGHENY-MOHAWK came into being in the first place!
 
I just have one question. If US AIRWAYS does in fact merge with Delta, and we do take on their name, is it safe to also assume we'd also be taking on the "new" uniforms? Jee i really hope so. Designer uniforms by Richard Tyler? Are you kidding me? I would be so happy to come to work every single day. The uniforms are so nice! if you haven't seen them yet google it... seriously:up:
 
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