Delta mechanics getting raise again
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
Back on topic. Its good to see the DL mechanics getting another raise. They aren't getting it because DL is a good company, and they still will be earning much much less than their counterparts at SWA, and maybe even UAL, they are getting it to keep the peace and keep the Unions out. If DL was so benevolent then why don't they pay their guys what SWA pays? They can more than afford to-after all look at their profits.
The TWU and IAM have brought their dues paying members to the bottom of the industry, and the numbers are huge, thousands of dollars a year . They were also the first two to start giving concessions as far back as 2002/03. Their miserable performance hurt even the non-union mechanics out there, even Delta went BK to get in on the action. To banter over which had done a worse job is a waste of time, but its the only defense you can come up with to defend what a lousy job the IAM has done, and they used to be quite respectable. Interesting to note that both Overspeed and 700 cite the fact that their union acted as a discounter of labor to try and justify their miserable performance and claim that they saved jobs by destroying the profession.
DL got a raise that will bring them to $39 this year, what is the all in that the IAM is begging for over at US a decade after coming out of Chapter 11? Where are you now, a decade after coming out of C-11? In two years when we get our wage adjustment will you guys bring the average used up or down? And don't bother bringing up "first time in Section 6" because the fact is the IAM cut a sweetheart deal for them and the company at the expense of their members that extended the C-11 concessions so they could start collecting dues from AW that much faster. United also went through a merger but they didn't agree to lock their concessions in for 12 years and even Non Union Delta went through a merger and still pays their guys $5/hr, thats over $10,000 more a year before OT, than US pays.
BTW, the $2hr multiplier for your pension comes out to a 4.4% 401k match at SWA $45/hr pay rate. They get 9%. So you are begging for $2/hr for your pensions, which will be turned over to the IAM, which says that they wont pay you if you work for another airline while over at SWA they are getting paid enough so they can retire and not have to work and they are getting $4.05 an hour getting put into their pensions. Even at our pay rates your $2, which goes to the IAM, and stays with them when you die, comes out to be equal to around a 5.7% match of the current all in AA rate, a 2 tenths of a percent advantage, that advantage evaporates when you factor in OT, and thats what you are asking for.
The TWU and IAM have brought their dues paying members to the bottom of the industry, and the numbers are huge, thousands of dollars a year . They were also the first two to start giving concessions as far back as 2002/03. Their miserable performance hurt even the non-union mechanics out there, even Delta went BK to get in on the action. To banter over which had done a worse job is a waste of time, but its the only defense you can come up with to defend what a lousy job the IAM has done, and they used to be quite respectable. Interesting to note that both Overspeed and 700 cite the fact that their union acted as a discounter of labor to try and justify their miserable performance and claim that they saved jobs by destroying the profession.
DL got a raise that will bring them to $39 this year, what is the all in that the IAM is begging for over at US a decade after coming out of Chapter 11? Where are you now, a decade after coming out of C-11? In two years when we get our wage adjustment will you guys bring the average used up or down? And don't bother bringing up "first time in Section 6" because the fact is the IAM cut a sweetheart deal for them and the company at the expense of their members that extended the C-11 concessions so they could start collecting dues from AW that much faster. United also went through a merger but they didn't agree to lock their concessions in for 12 years and even Non Union Delta went through a merger and still pays their guys $5/hr, thats over $10,000 more a year before OT, than US pays.
BTW, the $2hr multiplier for your pension comes out to a 4.4% 401k match at SWA $45/hr pay rate. They get 9%. So you are begging for $2/hr for your pensions, which will be turned over to the IAM, which says that they wont pay you if you work for another airline while over at SWA they are getting paid enough so they can retire and not have to work and they are getting $4.05 an hour getting put into their pensions. Even at our pay rates your $2, which goes to the IAM, and stays with them when you die, comes out to be equal to around a 5.7% match of the current all in AA rate, a 2 tenths of a percent advantage, that advantage evaporates when you factor in OT, and thats what you are asking for.
- Banned
- #78
You can blame the unions all you want, before 9/11, SARS, the wars in the Middle East that caused fuel to spike and inept management has caused the damage.
I was on the NC for the M&R for the IAM during the second chapter 11 case which was 2004/2005, the bankruptcy laws are in favor of a company not the employees and a union. So US has only been out of Chapter 11 nine years and its been five since the Transition Agreement and three years of the first Section 6 negotiations since the 95. We got a new CBA in 1999 after 4 1/2 years of negotiations, I got a $3.35 raise per hour at DOS on that CBA.
We had our CBA abrogated, do you know what that means?
Its easy to blame the unions, but until you really are part of the process you will see the main cause if greed and the laws.
At US they got a transition agreement in 2008 which raised pay, benefits and increased scope language.
They have been in Section 6 Negotiations for almost three years and received two 3% increases as the CBA has gone past its amendable date without a new CBA, last May or June the IAM has petitioned the board to be released with no avail. The IBT raid caused a stop to negotiations, so that pushed things back. The IAM is meeting Tuesday again with the NMB second time since the election was over to see what is going on.
The IAM at US has worked safe during Thanksgiving and X-Mas, the company sent a letter claiming that the employees werent taking overtime, well in the M&R CBA at US there is no mandatory OT. They got so mad that the planes in CLT Heavy werent making their ETRs that they farmed out a 757.
The IAM and its members for the M&R at US are doing their part, but the company doesnt want to settle.
So you can blame the unions all you want, until the playing field is leveled, the unions will always be at a disadvantage, you do realize the RLA was enacted to stop all the wildcat strikes in the Railroads and gave the employees the right to organize, heck the RLA was enacted even before their were airline. The law is set up to prevent the stoppage of interstate commerce.
So flame away.
I was on the NC for the M&R for the IAM during the second chapter 11 case which was 2004/2005, the bankruptcy laws are in favor of a company not the employees and a union. So US has only been out of Chapter 11 nine years and its been five since the Transition Agreement and three years of the first Section 6 negotiations since the 95. We got a new CBA in 1999 after 4 1/2 years of negotiations, I got a $3.35 raise per hour at DOS on that CBA.
We had our CBA abrogated, do you know what that means?
Its easy to blame the unions, but until you really are part of the process you will see the main cause if greed and the laws.
At US they got a transition agreement in 2008 which raised pay, benefits and increased scope language.
They have been in Section 6 Negotiations for almost three years and received two 3% increases as the CBA has gone past its amendable date without a new CBA, last May or June the IAM has petitioned the board to be released with no avail. The IBT raid caused a stop to negotiations, so that pushed things back. The IAM is meeting Tuesday again with the NMB second time since the election was over to see what is going on.
The IAM at US has worked safe during Thanksgiving and X-Mas, the company sent a letter claiming that the employees werent taking overtime, well in the M&R CBA at US there is no mandatory OT. They got so mad that the planes in CLT Heavy werent making their ETRs that they farmed out a 757.
The IAM and its members for the M&R at US are doing their part, but the company doesnt want to settle.
So you can blame the unions all you want, until the playing field is leveled, the unions will always be at a disadvantage, you do realize the RLA was enacted to stop all the wildcat strikes in the Railroads and gave the employees the right to organize, heck the RLA was enacted even before their were airline. The law is set up to prevent the stoppage of interstate commerce.
So flame away.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
And before 9-11, SARs etc there was WW-II, Korea, Aids, and a hundred other excuses that didn't work, the Unions still said NO to concessions.700UW said:
I know what abrogated means, and I also see what the RLA says about abrogation, did you strike?
You say the field has to be level, yet you justify concessions, well what exactly are you or the leaders you defend doing to level the playing field?
700, not sure about IAM's restrictions on employment after retirement, and collecting pensions. However I do know the ibt's and they do have way more listed than just airlines that will in fact not allow them to collect on their pensions from the teamsters pension funds. Some on the list are even out of the field of service completely. Could you possibly post the IAM's restrictions tied to their pension funds after retirement? I find it hard to believe that only airlines are listed, but you know what? NOTHING should be listed to restrict anyone from collecting an earned pension fund PERIOD. I find it completing insulting for anyone to claim that if you go back to work after retirement (some catastrophic event, like you just inherited the care and raising of your grandchildren) you could lose your pension that was earned and based on the time you have already put in at the carrier. We have a few mechs here at SWA that had to come back to work after retirement, it does happen...
- Banned
- #81
And during those times you had regulation when profits were guaranteed and you didnt have the LCCs.Thomas Paine said:
Apples and Oranges.
You are not allowed to strike under the RLA for Airlines upon an abrogation, Section 1167 only applies to railroads.
And the AFA challenged it in Court and the Appeals court at NW and lost, so the law doesnt allow you to strike.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
"ONLY NINE YEARS"
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
Read the RLA again. Didn't see a section 1167 in the RLA.700UW said:
"No carrier, its officers, or agents shall change the rates of pay, rules, or working conditions of its employees, as a class, as embodied in agreements except in the manner prescribed in such agreements or in section 156 of this title."
When did the AFA challenge? Was that before or after you guys simply folded and did not assert your rights under the RLA, after all you are the deep pocketed Fighting IAM, had you fought the results would have been different right? (or do you agree with the courts decision?) The AFA probably lost because they are just a small craft union with no money, in fact they had to become a subsidiary of the CWA didn't they? . Doubt they could afford the lawyers the IAM could have afforded, right?
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
What year was your contract abrogated?
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
The NWA FA contract was not abrogated till June 6, 2006. Nearly a year and a half later, so what happened? Google it.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #90
Thomas
Neither DL nor I push profit sharing because it won't be there but because DL is running a solid business and is quite good at executing its strategic plans which are based on growing revenues.
Surprisingly it is the same strategy WN has used and still uses.
The doubts that DL can deliver r misplaced.
No company spends hundreds of millions per year in extra salaries to keep unions out. DL could be like other airlines and be union and just fight with their employees. DL pays more because a solid business generates loyalty and employees deliver for the company
700
U can't let unions off the hook bc of 9 11 and SARS and then castigate airline mgmt for the same cuts. pick one story or the other.
Neither DL nor I push profit sharing because it won't be there but because DL is running a solid business and is quite good at executing its strategic plans which are based on growing revenues.
Surprisingly it is the same strategy WN has used and still uses.
The doubts that DL can deliver r misplaced.
No company spends hundreds of millions per year in extra salaries to keep unions out. DL could be like other airlines and be union and just fight with their employees. DL pays more because a solid business generates loyalty and employees deliver for the company
700
U can't let unions off the hook bc of 9 11 and SARS and then castigate airline mgmt for the same cuts. pick one story or the other.
