Delta (finally) adds -8 to the CF34 line

[southwind]

Actually, since you're at will, you have no say in *anything.*

Superb observation Dell ! Now explaine that to Top Dawg !

Now that is something to be proud of as an at will employee and hold out as a reason for keeping a union out.

Nothing like being proud of not having any say in the direction of a company. You most definitely fit the mold of the groveling, "just lucky to have a job" employee.

Yeah, I can really see where having a union at NW, AA and others have opened all kinds of doors !

 

[737823]

Your off topic again joshie, go read the CBA, and USAPA has done the same at US.

Paying dues is a condition of employment.

Once again you have no idea of what you talk about.

Keep making a fool of yourself with your know it all attitude.

And that happened over 10 years ago, all unions in the airlines that have closed shops have similar language:

I guess that was "Victory" lodge 1725 doing what they do best.

http://www.nowayiam.org/images/Masiello_discharge_letters.pdf

Funny you deflect the issue by saying it was many years ago.

Tell us why you hate AMFAinMIAMI.

Josh

http://www.nrtw.org/foundation-action/fa_10.htm

 

[southwind]

Of course you missed the point of the post.

Here we have an employee championing the fact that his group has no say on any company matters. This from a company that champions employee involvement as a reason for not needing a union.

Of course Southwind is clearly not the model employee you would want to have touting the ability for Delta employees to have "skin in the game."

You can save the lecture WT. I know Delta has an exemplary process that allows all employees to affect change from within without the burden and anchor of belonging to a union.

BTW, I trust the leaders of the industrial union less than the leaders of Delta to do the right thing for the employees/members.

Bringing you usual progressive twist, I see !
All I said was that TopDawg was crying about how the engine shop "Supposedly" b!tched and moan about losing work, and by performong said b!tching and moaning, were given more work, to which I can attest, is a lie !

 

[700UW]

Learn to read.

And the NTRW is not a credible source.

Go find someone else to stalk and keep going off topic on each thread, you have been reported by myself and others.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and then there are airlines that don't have unions and their employees don't have to give their hard-earned money to an organization that hasn't done any better at holding back the changes that have swept the industry than at their non-union counterparts.
In fact, NW employees DID fare worse than DL employees in BK. 39% of NW employees were laid off between 9/11 and the end of BK compared to 35% at DL. Salary reductions for the entire workforce, not just a select few workgroups, can be found in DOT data - which is cited in the MIT Airline Data Project and DL employees did do better than their peers at other airlines and DL employees have also recovered far more of their pay and done it far faster than at other carriers.

Strangely, a whole lot of people on this forum aren't much interested in that data because if they read it, they would realize that their union claims fall flat in the midst of facts.

The only reason why some groups at NW fared as well as they did in BK was because NW achieved a huge part of its labor cost reduction by locking out AMFA. Remember, mechanics are usually the highest paid large non-pilot workgroup.

 

[700UW]

Kevin has proven you wrong over and over on this point.

Shall I send him a message to post the information again?

And AMFA walked out before NW filed chapter 11.

Ask the TPA and DFW hangar employees if they fared better.

Where is the DFW DL hub?

How is CVG and MEM doing?

And the mechanics at NW werent locked out, they went on strike.

And compare how many stations NW did the ramp out vs DL, and you will see the truth.

PS. I sent Kev a message.

 

[737823]

Learn to read.

And the NTRW is not a credible source.

Go find someone else to stalk and keep going off topic on each thread, you have been reported by myself and others.

Not a credible source because you don't like that they bring light to union injustices and thuggery?

You post IAM content left and right that suits the IAM agenda.

Josh

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Just by reading the language that 700UW posted, I cant see how the IAM did anything wrong, the two employees were afforded the chance to pay their dues, they didnt and the language is quite clear.

What is your beef with 700, you follow him from thread to thread, and you take everything off topic?

 

[southwind]

Learn to read.

And the NTRW is not a credible source.

Go find someone else to stalk and keep going off topic on each thread, you have been reported by myself and others.

Whoa !!! "YOU" reported someone "ELSE" for going off topic ? Really?

And #2, Grow a pair and stop running to Mommy !

 

[700UW]

Not a credible source because you don't like that they bring light to union injustices and thuggery?

You post IAM content left and right that suits the IAM agenda.

Josh

How is it injustice when it is in the CBA, and well known, and they were given every chance to pay the dues?

And the company agreed and the letters show the whole process.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The DOT data is clear and Kev3188 has posted about his workgroup... and he is probably right. BUT if you look at all workgroups, then DL employees did fare better.

The problem is you labor supporters want to exclude the failure of AMFA and then tout how well labor fare.

EXCUSE ME but AMFA pushed its members out the door and made it that much easier for the rest of labor in BK. The rest of NW's labor groups should be sending thank you cards to AMFA members for falling on the sword for them but instead we have them vilifying the replacement workers that were the only thing that kept the airline from shutting down and putting the rest of them out of work.

The DFW hub is in NYC now where DL is now the largest carrier by passenger volume between all 3 NYC airports.

DL has now or will have the largest maintenance force in the Americas by the time AA's maintenance restructuring is completed.

You need only look at the financial statements of AA, DL, UA, and US to see how that DL as a company is far better post 9/11 than its network airline peers - and so are their employees.

These are the reasons why DL's stock market value is considerably larger than any other airline in the Americas and one of the largest for an airline in the world.

It's also why there are articles now popping up saying that DL has replaced WN as the best-run airline in the US and why WN is now taking tricks out of DL's playbook.

It also doesn't change for one minute that the rest of the labor movement has completely failed at recovering pay post BK for their employees while DL has done it for its employees - unionized and non-union alike - because DL built a business plan that allows ALL stakeholders at DL to win and eliminates the confrontational, contentious environment that labor has tried to thrive in (and not done a terribly great job).
DL employees are winning because the company is winning and DL is willing to share the successes with the employees in order to financially motivate them to continue to make the company win.
Apparently, it's ok for labor to tout that formula as the reason for WN's success but they won't for a minute acknowledge the same formula works at DL - but without the unions.

DL people know better which is why they have consistently and repeatedly said they can achieve what they want w/o unions - and they don't want them.

 

[Kev3188]

Here we have an employee championing the fact that his group has no say on any company matters. This from a company that champions employee involvement as a reason for not needing a union.

**Exactly**

Superb observation Dell ! Now explaine that to Top Dawg !

If you're going to quote me, at least get my name right...

http://www.nrtw.org/...ction/fa_10.htm

RTW proponents always frame it as an issue of "choice." If that's the case, how come no one ever gets to vote on it?

The DOT data is clear and Kev3188 has posted about his workgroup... and he is probably right.

I am.

...because DL built a business plan that allows ALL stakeholders at DL to win and eliminates the confrontational, contentious environment that labor has tried to thrive in (and not done a terribly great job).

It's easy to eliminate dissent in an at will environment.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL employees aren't interested in dissent; they are interested in obtaining the greatest economic gains they can... and the company has made sure that employees understand those gains will come by working WITH the company rather than against them.

DL employees have no interest in the rancorous labor-mgmt. relationships that exist at most airlines and have resulted in greater economic loss than gain.

Yes, I know you are right, Kev. You are a smart man and know your stuff.

You just choose to focus on a small enough subset (your own workgroup) in order to make your union look good.

The fact is that AMFA made the IAM's job very easy. I'm glad you and your workgroup fared well...but you wouldn't have received what you received were it not for the failed strategy of AMFA which resulted in NW cutting its highest ground employee group to the bone.

 

[robbedagain]

i believe that one day you may very well see dl go union... as kev pointed out there are card drives going on.. kev do you have any updates on that...

no union means that at any given time dl can go to a station and say adios amigos and their employees would be out the door like the way they were when dl shuttered the dfw cvg and mem hubs

 

[Kev3188]

and the company has made sure that employees understand those gains will come by working WITH the company rather than against them.

...Except (or until) when they don't...

DL employees have no interest in the rancorous labor-mgmt. relationships that exist at most airlines and have resulted in greater economic loss than gain.

That's true, and the same can be said for most labor activists at the carrier- certainly the ones I know, anyway.

Ironically, the most negative and/or rancorous behavior is now coming from the anti-worker side.