Delta Air Lines Seeks 'Crown Jewel' for New York-JFK Hub: Nonstop Flights to London

[TheDog2004]

while WT does embellish quite a bit, the UA sour grapes posts on this thread are ridiculous.

UA paid a lot for those London slots. they are giving them away now to what will end up being a much stronger competitor in NYC.

I have two concerns from Delta's perspective:

1. don't use the junk 763ERs - I agree with JFK777 that 777s or 764s are a necessity on this route.
2. attack with more than a single flight - give the customers more options. starting with a single flight is very weak.

 

[ualdriver]

I have a story. There's aboout 50-100 people who visit a local gun range where the shooters practice their sharp shooting skills. Most of the people just sit in the stands and watch because they enjoy watching skilled marksman. A small portion of the group actually come out of the stands, pull out their pistols and take shots at the bullseye targets downrange. A few of the shooters are just all over the place, but some are actually pretty good marksmen.

On this particular day the regular shooters go down to start shooting at their targets. After emptying their 9 shots from their pistol, TW (name changed to protect the "innocent") walks up to his line, pulls out his shot gun, and literally sprays shot everywhere. Some of the shot ineveitably hit his target but most miss entirely and just litter the gun range downrange with wasted shot. TW then raises his hand, walks up to the targets, glances at his fellow shooters' targets, then looks at his. He sees that his target is just covered with 100's of shots from the spray of his shotgun and proclaims himself the best marksman at the range because he has more balls of shot on his target than anyone else currently at the range. TW then pulls a large gold medal out of his pocket, puts it around his own neck, then returns to the line to continue target shooting with his shotgun. The others, standing in disbelief, just shake their heads. The lack of anyone challenging TW on this ridiculous marksmanship claim is proof in TW's own mind that he is, indeed, the best marksman at the range. Anyone familiar with shooting, however, knows otherwise. Even a novice shooter could spray a target 50 feet away with a shotgun and get some of the shot to hit the bullseye.

The other marksmen, some far more qualified than TW to shoot on this range, kind of look at each in disbelief, but enjoy shooting so they just keep shooting at their own targets while TW continues to spray shot all over the range. Some of the people in the stands heckle TW, but TW just holds up his self awarded marksmanship gold medal to the crowd as proof of his "ability" as a marksman. The other qualified marksman know that TW needs a lesson in both humility and sharpshooting, but choose not to waste their limited time at the gun range trying to explain to TW that anyone with a shotgun can hit a target 50 feet away, and some of that spray may even hit the center of the bullseye, despite the ability (or in this case lack of) the shotgun shooter may have.

Almost 1700 posts sprayed on these forums, a new green "signature" at the bottom of his posts (check out that gold medal), and the quote below. Need I say more?

So regardless of how much you want to throw mud, there is not one other person on this board that has more accurately predicted where the industry would go and has been right. None. Absolutely none.

 

[ualdriver]

oopps!

 

[hp_fa]

I loved your story. It reminded me that broken clocks are correct twice a day.

 

[ualdriver]

second post edited with the "oopps." Accidentally posted twice.

 

[artiefufkin1]

Delta has an adjusted CASM only 58% of what United has, just 70% of what American's figure is. (VS and BA higher costs still)
They will have no problem making this work by virtue of their cost advantage alone.

Not to mention they have more JFK spokes to "secondary" markets for feed, a multitude of Continental European non-stops for returns which tour groups crave, and will be the lone airline on the LGW route which carries with it a geographic advantage for those South of London. It also fits strategically into their NYC plans by thwarting AA's last point of leverage they had with NYC corporate travel managers.

The DL service to ORD from LGA is a really kind of a good example of what will happen here here despite it being domestic. DL has a distinct frequency disadvantage, they had zero business on the route beforehand going up against AA, yet the route has gone gangbusters. A hit with Delta's own frequent flyer base. High LF's with a mix of full fare and low yielding tickets.

 

[flyhigh]

...this is a great acquisition for DL. While they'll have a hard time competing with AA/BA/VS for London traffic, it should help some. The business travelers still prefer LHR, but have grown to accept LGW as an alternative. The big question will be the frequency issue. It's a short enough flight ~6 hrs that you should be able serve it more than once a day. With that, what did DL get? One a day will be very tough to compete with...that's why UA is leaving it...they were loosing to the aforementioned carriers. They've never been as strong as AA to London.

 

[superG]

Best to hold the gloating until DAL has made it out of BK. By the way I see UAL made some money last quarter, anyone else around here do that?



Delta Air Lines Seeks 'Crown Jewel' for New York-JFK Hub:

F/A celebrates 50 years of flying!

CMH mainline down to 5 flights per day

DL adding 10 longrange 757 to fleet * 12

Passengers subdue man on Delta flight

These are the fascinating topics here and about delta since 10 July. How could anyone not be stuck here waiting for each new post!
Nothing other than positive cash flow 5.5 billion cash on hand plus a profitable quarter.


Oh you mean like how DAL and Airtan get along. Its just like bosom, buddies.
LOL Delta is a second rate hack. Please Delta will never equal AA in NY. Flying a bunch of express flights to the NE and trying to put flights to every city in europe is not an advantage. It will be a severe disadvantage come winter and all the tourists and travel groups are back at work and home.

Sir wake up. Wake up sir we have landed, were here.

Really sir I dont know what you took but you have to get off the plane.Up and at them!
Didnt Delta just 9 months ago wipe out all the value of the company to its owners?
Reading this post has made us all nervious, or was it nauseous, ahh all the same

Granted, we need to see headlines, like DL's purchase of 25 777's and 50 787's, so there's something to fight AA with. Much of Delta's plight is due to the lack of 777's and the misguided venture into Asian markets years back with planes with insufficient range...maybe this time in 2007...

 

[WorldTraveler]

my question remains the same for you, driver. What have you contributed to this board?

I know. You're a bench warmer that has sat in the grandstands yelling cat calls. Show me something constructive or forward looking you've posted.

So tell me who can more accurately demonstrates an understanding of the airline business?

And let's see a refutal to Artie's CASM analysis.

You also realize DL is planning to operate at least 2 flights/day come spring and could operate as much as five based on UA's current allotment under Bermuda 2.

Throughout the deregulated era, Delta was the most consistently profitable airline AND had the best reputation for customer service. Deregulation has not been as kind to Delta. For the past 10 years, DL was written off as the red-headed stepchild of the industry... the illegitimate southern child. And for years, DL just accepted the title, doing little to reverse its slide.

The reason why I am as optimistic about DL is because they have come back with a vengeance and they won't be content with even their pre-deregulation position. DL will be more profitable, have better customer service, and be more expansive with its route system.

There's a benefit for going last in the bankruptcy filing process that has become routine in the industry. DL has learned from everyone else's mistakes and will do everything it takes to move to a leadership position in the industry - and do it right the first time.

I have nothing personal against the employees of any airline. However, there has been a dramatic difference in the quality of management at US airlines for years. And while I bash AA every now and then, they have had the management sense to pull back from the edge before they reached the point of no return; something no other airline has done.

Without a doubt, DL got two bad batches of mgmt that held the reigns for 10 years. They are gone and DL has a new management group that is taking DL back to its former glory. Those of you that want to deny DL its turnaround are simply unable to execute it at your own airlines. However, I have no problem if you better. Just do it instead of making excuses for why you can't and then shooting down the people that want to defend the company that can.

 

[artiefufkin1]

With the Delta Shuttle, Florida, and Atlanta, Delta could not help but have a large FF base in NYC. While not every business person in NYC needs these destinations, it's also true some don't need LAX and LHR and ORD.

Delta has now added additional service in the remaining big business markets that would appeal to a business traveler. LAX/SFO/ORD/LGW.

Will they recieve less yield than AA? Surely, as AA would have a harder time with ATL and the Shuttle markets. But again, the big equalizer for Delta is their costs are so much lower.

 

[whlinder]

Throughout the deregulated era, Delta was the most consistently profitable airline AND had the best reputation for customer service. Deregulation has not been as kind to Delta. For the past 10 years, DL was written off as the red-headed stepchild of the industry... the illegitimate southern child. And for years, DL just accepted the title, doing little to reverse its slide.

Either you mis-typed and meant "Throughout the regulated era..." or you forgot about Southwest. Whoops.

Of course, thoughout the regulated era, PanAm and TWA were awesome too...

 

[DLFlyer31]

But again, the big equalizer for Delta is their costs are so much lower.

DL's mainline costs may be lower, but DL's cost advantage is substantially eroded when you factor in regional feed. DL relies more heavily on regional jets than virtually any other carrier. CVG/SLC rely on regional jets for 70-80% of all flights. Even the growing JFK hub has only about 80 mainline flights and 100+ regional flights.

So DL's mainline costs may be lower, but what about all the cost for all those customers who fly DL and never step foot on one of the low cost mainliners?

 

[artiefufkin1]

Skyteam carriers in NYC now have a whopping 45% of NYC traffic. Oneworld is around 20%. When these business passengers are looking for LON service and they've got status under a Skyteam carrier they will be just fine with the LGW flights.

 

[JAMAKE1]

UA paid a lot for those London slots. they are giving them away now to what will end up being a much stronger competitor in NYC.

United is selling its NYC-LON route authority, not its Heathrow slot.

Additionally, with the power of the BA/AA Oneworld combination, it was difficult for UA to even come close to matching what AA/BA could offer from JFK. It is for this same reason that AA discontinued its JFK-FRA route a while back...

 

[artiefufkin1]

Well with the smaller gauge comes higher RASM just by virtue if the much smaller number seats. So I'm not sure how you would quantify that when looking at DL feed's for the LGW flights. I would guess it negates the margin somewhat but not much.