Delta Air Lines Seeks 'Crown Jewel' for New York-JFK Hub: Nonstop Flights to London

[WorldTraveler]

How dare you say that chatting on internet boards is a waste of time!!! Does that mean you have nothing to do with your life or have nothing to contribute to life so you just resort to playing on the internet?


You'll have to ask the DL employees who fly about work rules. Bottom line is that most people these days are being expected to work harder in return for a higher paycheck. DL has just been more efficient than its airline peers for decades.

I forgot to answer the question from the AA folks about AA outbidding DL. Problem is that AA will have to pick and choose a few choice morsels from UA because of the significant overlap that already exists between AA and UA. UA's owners are not going to sell the best morsels to AA and then leave UA dismembered and unable to compete. DL has little overlap and will be able to take the majority of UA's operation with no antitrust concerns, satisfying the need to maximize UA's estate. We all know that AA is the king of dismembering airlines but the stakes are to high for it to happen this time. When you are the world's largest airline, you don't buy out your archrival and spit out the pieces no matter how much money you have.

Reading this post has made us all nervious, or was it nauseous, ahh all the same

No, it's just you and it's because you have been drinking too much. It's late. Lie down and don't forget to take your aspirin before going to bed.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

DL did in fact give Pan Am and Western employees full company seniority.

That should read The Pan Am employees they elected to keep , there were about 12,000 Pan Am employees that didn't get a thing from Delta, other than an application...

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Jeeze, we shoulda just gone bankrupt.

It's apparently the key ingredient in the Delta world domination scheme.


This drivel is starting to rival the infamous A320 Captain from USAirways for pure speculative Bullshit and pom pom waving.

 

[JAMAKE1]

ALL credibility, WT.

 

[FA Mikey]

I forgot to answer the question from the AA folks about AA outbidding DL. Problem is that AA will have to pick and choose a few choice morsels from UA because of the significant overlap that already exists between AA and UA. UA's owners are not going to sell the best morsels to AA and then leave UA dismembered and unable to compete. DL has little overlap and will be able to take the majority of UA's operation with no antitrust concerns, satisfying the need to maximize UA's estate. We all know that AA is the king of dismembering airlines but the stakes are to high for it to happen this time. When you are the world's largest airline, you don't buy out your archrival and spit out the pieces no matter how much money you have.

Here is a news flash. United is out of bankruptcy and making money. Dela is bankrupt and still bleeding. We still have to wait and see if the court will let Delta buy this from United.

 

[artiefufkin1]

Hello there WT. I just signed up.

Delta is making money less the restructuring charges. They will have a unajusted CASM a full cent below AA despite having a LOH 85% of AA's number. The two airlines costs are not even in the same ballpark any longer.

But what this does do is just about take away the last market that AA was able to hold over the heads of NYC corporate travel managers. In the past if you cooperated with Delta in a AA market they cut you out of London because Delta could offer nothing here. Now while LHR is still the preferable of the two from a premium standpoint, AA has lost the bulk of their leverage here.

Another point. many many many tours start in London and end in Continental Europe. Delta will take this business right away from all the players out of JFK. BA/VS/AA cannot do nonstops, in most cases on these open jaws like Delta can. That's a slam dunk.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL didn't buy all of Pan Am. Thus they didn't take all of the people.

AA did buy all of TW but then grounded their planes and continues to shrink AA in order to keep from living up to AA's obligations to TW employees.

Mikey,
you still haven't explained why AA employees all the sudden got real interested in this discussion. It has managed to wake up this sleepy board. I'm sure the moderators appreciate the increased ad revenue they stand to get.

Welcome, Artie.

Don't worry they'll tell you you're on cloud nine or something like that... they just don't want to hear that DL is turning around the company that they ALL wrote off years ago - and pulling together one of the strongest turnarounds in the history of aviation.

It's easy to say that DL isn't making money if you look at the last quarterly reports. Since then, however, DL has reported 2 monthly reports and showed solid operational profits. In fact, they showed an operating profit in March - just 6 months after entering BK.

And we haven't heard from DL for June or the 2nd quarter. We'll see how this all shakes out then but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see that is on the upper end of profitability in the industry and above UA. Then we'll see who's in touch with reality and who is not.

As for the longer term look, I always enjoy casting an eye to the future. I don't mind sticking around to see what happens. The past and present do have something to say about the future and in that regard DL has done a better job of keeping its network intact and actually growing it than any other airline that went through bankruptcy.

By the way, the bankruptcy court allowed DL to proceed w/ coming up with a final agreement on the 10 ex-TW 757s, meaning DL has been able to demonstrate to the bankruptcy court and the creditors that they are not only responsibly USING every asset currently available to them to enhance the value of the estate but can also GROW the airline and still make more money. Before the summer is out, DL is also expected to affirm its 777 deliveries for 2008 and beyond.

In UA's bankruptcy case, we watched them give up airplanes and had to obtain all debt financing that allowed no growth of the mainline fleet.

Wanna keep telling me that UA is running a superior airline to DL? And if you don't think that ability to generate superior returns won't equate to DL continuing to be entrusted with more and more of the industry's assets, you are seriously ignorant of how the business world works.

 

[Ch. 12]

The purchase price for the route is mentioned in this article:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060728/delta_united.html?.v=3

Thanks. I hadn't seen the figures in the article attached to this thread but definitely see them now in subsequent press releases. Thanks again.

 

[FA Mikey]

DL didn't buy all of Pan Am. Thus they didn't take all of the people.

No, they committed to loans to fund what was left. Then when they got there hands on what they wanted. Left everyone and everything to fail. I see thats make them sooo superior.

AA did buy all of TW but then grounded their planes and continues to shrink AA in order to keep from living up to AA's obligations to TW employees.

Really, I am still seeing exTWA planes in the fleet. Oh wait its one of your exaggerations. I get it. If its not true make it up.

Mikey,
you still haven't explained why AA employees all the sudden got real interested in this discussion. It has managed to wake up this sleepy board. I'm sure the moderators appreciate the increased ad revenue they stand to get.

How is that my job. I sorry was this an aviation board open to the public, or a private Delta dream scape?

It's easy to say that DL isn't making money if you look at the last quarterly reports. Since then, however, DL has reported 2 monthly reports and showed solid operational profits. In fact, they showed an operating profit in March - just 6 months after entering BK.

News flash, its been more than a couple quarters since Delta has made money. FYI, thats why they have had to sell everything they own, just to have money to go bankrupt.

And we haven't heard from DL for June or the 2nd quarter. We'll see how this all shakes out then but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see that is on the upper end of profitability in the industry and above UA. Then we'll see who's in touch with reality and who is not.

We will see who is in touch with reality.

Wanna keep telling me that UA is running a superior airline to DL? And if you don't think that ability to generate superior returns won't equate to DL continuing to be entrusted with more and more of the industry's assets, you are seriously ignorant of how the business world works.

You can fly to all 50 states and every European capital. But if Delta cannot make money they will not be in business. United is making money and looks to be building on its strengths.

 

[hp_fa]

Jeeze, we shoulda just gone bankrupt.

It's apparently the key ingredient in the Delta world domination scheme.
This drivel is starting to rival the infamous A320 Captain from USAirways for pure speculative Bullshit and pom pom waving.

i agree on the pom-poms. I believe that WT is in PR for DL or some business under contract to DL to make lemonade from lemons.

 

[Fly]

fyi - WT is incorrect about the pay differences between, at least, the Delta vs United flight attendant pay. Domestic payrates, Delta makes more, by a few cents. Internationally, United makes more.

Calling WT, please come and spin this for us!!!

How is it possible that internationally United flight attendants make more than Delta, have uncomparably better work rules, and when taking a voluntary furlough do not try to return on the prearranged date only to be told they are no longer needed at the company. How can that be???

 

[Bizman]

But they did give the employees seniority.

Well, you are correct here. They did give them senority. However, your definition of senority differs from many on this board. Being placed below someone who was still in high school when you were already in the industry, doesn't constituit "giving them senority". Anyone who is hired at an airline "gets senority", all be it the newest number.

 

[artiefufkin1]

Pan Am employees recieved half their seniority their first day at Delta and full seniorty was phased in over a matter of years.

So boo hoo for the poor Pan Amers. I don't know how they managed to do it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA has grounded as many airplanes as they acquired from TW and most TW employees are on the streets. The fact that TW had better airplanes is immaterial. You also have to wonder how AA can be shedding planes in order to keep its profit margins up while DL is able to grow its network and acquire used airplanes from AA and still be profitable (which will undoubtedly be seen in just a couple weeks).

DL still has an owned regional airline that they are rehabilitating and expect to sell. And of course we know that AA has never sold any of its assets - like Sabre or even its headquarters building. Unlike AA or UA, DL owns its headquarters complex.

DL made an investment in Pan Am 2 which continued to bleed money heavily so DL pulled the investment. Those Pan Am 2 routes were sold to United which has discontinued most of them. DL in the meantime has built its own Latin American operation that is now bigger than both United's and what Pan Am operated at the time of the DL investment in Pan Am 2.

Let's discuss profitability again after DL posts its 2nd quarter numbers. Go ahead and get your punches in now, though, cause I have a feeling you won't be in such a great position to condemn DL in just a couple weeks.

Fly,
we've been down the int'l vs domestic FA thing before. You have yet to tell me that more than half of UA's FAs fly internationally, making average wages at UA higher than DLs. And don't forget to include the pension benefits that DL FAs STILL have. And don't forget to back out your union dues that obviously worked wonderfully at keeping your employer from bending you over their knee.

Pom Poms? That's way too pedestrian for me. I use fireworks, cannons, and fully orchestras.

 

[JAMAKE1]

Fly,
we've been down the int'l vs domestic FA thing before. You have yet to tell me that more than half of UA's FAs fly internationally, making average wages at UA higher than DLs. And don't forget to include the pension benefits that DL FAs STILL have. And don't forget to back out your union dues that obviously worked wonderfully at keeping your employer from bending you over their knee.

WT...

$39 per month more than pays for itself in the workrules (read $ in our pockets) that our MEC was able to preserve through 2 rounds of concessions. I fly with many former Delta flight attendants here at United who have given me quite an ear full. Handsdown, those former Delta F/A's are thankful to be protected under a collective bargaining agreement. And for the record, our international and domestic is completely merged. Since many of our flight attendants sit reserve ever other month (we call it A-B rotation), the vast majority fly a mix of domestic and international. The last former Delta F/A I flew with informed me that his former colleagues who went over to Song, would be brought back to Delta at the BOTTOM of the seniority list. So keep spouting off how wonderful it is over there at Delta...

fyi - WT is incorrect about the pay differences between, at least, the Delta vs United flight attendant pay.

WT is incorrect about a lot of the drivel he posts...