Dellzzzzz Still A No Show

[twuer]

So Hackman,
Are you agreeing with BOB that if AMFA gets in at AA than the mechanics will look to get $30 per hour right off the bat???? That's what's being promised! Look back over the posts.

Sure, big companies and thier "rulers" aren't always straight forward but there is NO way, let me repeat NO WAY there will be enough $$ to pay the mechanics that much per hour. Unless of course, like I said, layoffs, outsourcing, layoffs, oustsourcing etc!!!! That could get a few dollars more.

We have very DIFFERENT mind sets when it comes to who gets what in this deal. You want more money even if it means that the guy/girl you work next to everyday loses his/her job. I've heard it over and over and over on these boards. It's sad and quite pathetic. You can criticize my way of thinking all you want. It's been done before. But when people lose their jobs it kind of works like a ripple effect. They make nothing they spend nothing, which cause poor numbers in the economy. Don't you get it?????????? Go ahead, spend your time and effort to get what you think you are due and see how far it gets you. . .


oh, and why is this necessary??? (When do stand up and get off your knees twuer?) Aren't you grown up enough to NOT have to resort to this. Oh wait, you learn to do this at your AMFA informational meetings huh?? :unsure:

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Excess me Gentelmen! I have one question! When are we going to get to vote on all this????? Signed: "Just another redheaded step child!"

 

[1AA]

<_< Excess me Gentelmen! I have one question! When are we going to get to vote on all this????? Signed: "Just another redheaded step child!"

Anytime before March 17, 2004......
Whats the rush we have this wonderful concessionary contract until 2009..... B)

 

[Rusty]

Anytime before March 17, 2004......
Whats the rush we have this wonderful concessionary contract until 2009..... B)

1AA, I think you meant we will petition the NMB on or before that date. The vote will come when the NMB says so which could be a couple of months later. Anyway, thought I would clarify it a little.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken MacTiernan Posted: Jan 13 2004, 07:40 PM


Member


Group: Member
Posts: 87
Member No.: 2,575
Joined: 12-August 03



twuer, reading your responses to Bob Owens makes for some entertaining reading. Thank you. You like to reply to Bob that he spins your posts or only takes parts to task. Well, every time you post to Bob claiming, AMFA bad-twu good you open your self to the truth. And quite simply, the truth hurts doesn't it? I will ask you two simple questions that I hope you, or those who tell you what to post, can answer.
1) What is so bad about ALL AMTs belonging to a craft, democratic union?

2) Why did the twu not demand snap back clauses after the concession package duration?

These are simple questions. No spin required. As for the 17th I will be in Tulsa for the debate. Since the twu international will fear to show up this will be a good AMFA informational meeting. If you go please introduce yourself to me. I would like to see what a coward looks like.


twuer, take your time.

 

[Hackman]

So Hackman,
Are you agreeing with BOB that if AMFA gets in at AA than the mechanics will look to get $30 per hour right off the bat???? That's what's being promised! Look back over the posts.

Sure, big companies and thier "rulers" aren't always straight forward but there is NO way, let me repeat NO WAY there will be enough $$ to pay the mechanics that much per hour. Unless of course, like I said, layoffs, outsourcing, layoffs, oustsourcing etc!!!! That could get a few dollars more.

We have very DIFFERENT mind sets when it comes to who gets what in this deal. You want more money even if it means that the guy/girl you work next to everyday loses his/her job. I've heard it over and over and over on these boards. It's sad and quite pathetic. You can criticize my way of thinking all you want. It's been done before. But when people lose their jobs it kind of works like a ripple effect. They make nothing they spend nothing, which cause poor numbers in the economy. Don't you get it?????????? Go ahead, spend your time and effort to get what you think you are due and see how far it gets you. . .


oh, and why is this necessary??? (When do stand up and get off your knees twuer?) Aren't you grown up enough to NOT have to resort to this. Oh wait, you learn to do this at your AMFA informational meetings huh?? :unsure:

twuer,

Who promissed that "mechanics will look to get $30 dollars per hour right off the bat'?" Mr. Owens did not state this. I have not read one post from any AMFA supporter that promises anything like this. I have read back over the posts. Bob Owens stated a fact, AMFA members are making an average of $30 hr, where the twu is averaging $15 hr. Do you see any "AMFA promises" in that statement? Sorry, I again fail to see your point. However, making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree? AMFA does not make promises like the twu does. Remember, we have a record setting concessionary twu contract in place
for six years, $30hr will not happen for at least that amount of time, no matter which union is in power.

Are you in possession of an accountant crystal ball here at AA twuer? You have fallen hard for the twu/company line haven't you? Did you believe jim little's outrageous statement that AA was going right past Chapter 11 and into Chapter 7? Therefore setting a pinnacle in the airline business for the first major to go right into liquidation (Chapter 7) without ever attempting reorganization (Chapter 11). If you bought this twu BS, I need to play some poker with you pilgrim, bring cash please, no checks. I'll worry when I see the company stop building terminals, exspanding to Asia, buying airplanes, and hitting management as hard as they hit us. The AA cry of "poor me" falls on deaf ears when I see this sudden prosperity not even a year later.

You are very correct, we do have very different methods of reasoning. Your statement that I want my co-workers to get furlowed for more money is assinine. I want my PROFESSION to prosper. However, I will not be "dumbed down" any longer to just another "airline ground worker" like the company and the twu have accomplished for years. This is a top profession with a HUGE responsibility, lives are in our hands. Your inept industrail union "concessions for jobs" concept is a failure. It failed at Eastern, it failed at Pan Am, its failing fast at US Air, and its failing here at AA. Management's inability to run this airline successfully will never be saved or changed by employee give backs. IT NEVER WORKS, AND IT NEVER WILL!!! Do YOU get this???????

I'm sorry, I hurt your sensitive twu feelings by stating you are living on your knees twuer, I'll try to remember your posts never contain any negativity towards any of the AMFA supporters. As usual, the twu is above reproach.

Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you. :unsure:

 

[twuer]

So Hackman,
Are you agreeing with BOB that if AMFA gets in at AA than the mechanics will look to get $30 per hour right off the bat???? That's what's being promised! Look back over the posts.

Sure, big companies and thier "rulers" aren't always straight forward but there is NO way, let me repeat NO WAY there will be enough $$ to pay the mechanics that much per hour. Unless of course, like I said, layoffs, outsourcing, layoffs, oustsourcing etc!!!! That could get a few dollars more.

We have very DIFFERENT mind sets when it comes to who gets what in this deal. You want more money even if it means that the guy/girl you work next to everyday loses his/her job. I've heard it over and over and over on these boards. It's sad and quite pathetic. You can criticize my way of thinking all you want. It's been done before. But when people lose their jobs it kind of works like a ripple effect. They make nothing they spend nothing, which cause poor numbers in the economy. Don't you get it?????????? Go ahead, spend your time and effort to get what you think you are due and see how far it gets you. . .


oh, and why is this necessary??? (When do stand up and get off your knees twuer?) Aren't you grown up enough to NOT have to resort to this. Oh wait, you learn to do this at your AMFA informational meetings huh?? :unsure:

twuer,

Who promissed that "mechanics will look to get $30 dollars per hour right off the bat'?" Mr. Owens did not state this. I have not read one post from any AMFA supporter that promises anything like this. I have read back over the posts. Bob Owens stated a fact, AMFA members are making an average of $30 hr, where the twu is averaging $15 hr. Do you see any "AMFA promises" in that statement? Sorry, I again fail to see your point. However, making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree? AMFA does not make promises like the twu does. Remember, we have a record setting concessionary twu contract in place
for six years, $30hr will not happen for at least that amount of time, no matter which union is in power.

Are you in possession of an accountant crystal ball here at AA twuer? You have fallen hard for the twu/company line haven't you? Did you believe jim little's outrageous statement that AA was going right past Chapter 11 and into Chapter 7? Therefore setting a pinnacle in the airline business for the first major to go right into liquidation (Chapter 7) without ever attempting reorganization (Chapter 11). If you bought this twu BS, I need to play some poker with you pilgrim, bring cash please, no checks. I'll worry when I see the company stop building terminals, exspanding to Asia, buying airplanes, and hitting management as hard as they hit us. The AA cry of "poor me" falls on deaf ears when I see this sudden prosperity not even a year later.

You are very correct, we do have very different methods of reasoning. Your statement that I want my co-workers to get furlowed for more money is assinine. I want my PROFESSION to prosper. However, I will not be "dumbed down" any longer to just another "airline ground worker" like the company and the twu have accomplished for years. Your inept industrail union "concessions for jobs" concept is a failure. It failed at Eastern, it failed at Pan Am, its failing fast at US Air, and its failing here at AA. Management's inability to run this airline successfully will never be saved or changed by employee give backs. IT NEVER WORKS, AND IT NEVER WILL!!! Do YOU get this???????

I'm sorry, I hurt your sensitive twu feelings by stating you are living on your knees twuer, I'll try to remember your posts never contain any negativity towards any of the AMFA supporters. As usual, the twu is above reproach.

Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you. :unsure:

Hackman,
Very impressive response. As far as the $30 per hour (hypothetical number) you guys have been preaching more money with AMFA from the get go. I would like to know where it will come from if you say there will be no layoffs or outsourcing. I don't buy "from management" crap. You aren't going to squeeze them that tight.

(Hackman quote. . .) making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree?
How is this different that AMFA saying we will be better off with them. That we will have more with AMFA, things will be soooo much better??? A bit hypocritical isn't it??

And yes I do believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we've sacrificed. You poor little AMFA guys think you are the only ones suffering. BOO HOO!!!!!!!! I'm in the same boat you are. Do you have kids. . .that's even harder. Believe me I've looked at both sides and choose to have faith in the union I currently support. Talk all you want about concessions this and concessions that, without further ratification, accountablity. I've heard it all. Times aren't the same as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's a whole different world. A whole different economy. I'm sure I will be getting some history lessons from Bob and Dave in their response to this about how bad things have been in the TWU. I voted to save the company and my job (and yes even yours Hackman). So sue me.

(Hackman quote. . .)This is a top profession with a HUGE responsibility, lives are in our hands.
If AMFA takes over the work will more than likely be outsourced more than it is! Tell me, what will AMFA do for others protection? They can't even get a nod in Washington where the "rules" are made. Don't give me that crap Hackman. I'm not buying it. Having only mechanics in one union is not a reality. It can't happen. It's a real nice thought though but not realistic. What will you do with the ramp guys and baggage handlers (etc) Hackman? Throw them to the way-side??? Abandon them because they don't meet your criteria?????

(Hackman quote. . .)Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you.

I wouldn't expect you to friend!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

And yes I do believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we've sacrificed. You poor little AMFA guys think you are the only ones suffering. BOO HOO!!!!!!!! I'm in the same boat you are. Do you have kids. . .that's even harder. Believe me I've looked at both sides and choose to have faith in the union I currently support. Talk all you want about concessions this and concessions that, without further ratification, accountablity. I've heard it all. Times aren't the same as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's a whole different world. A whole different economy. I'm sure I will be getting some history lessons from Bob and Dave in their response to this about how bad things have been in the TWU. I voted to save the company and my job (and yes even yours Hackman). So sue me.


twuer, maybe you voted to save AA and your job. But we were TOLD we would have a revote. AND NEVER GOT IT! I voted no AFTER many phone calls to get my "pin" so I could vote NO. And I did not change my vote once I cast it. (What's up with that?) I did not trust AA. I was was prooven correct. Shared sacrifice my ass. Why no snap backs? If we were to "save AA and our jobs" why did the twu not demand snap back clauses after the concession package life span? Don't give me any spin about our being able to open the contract at such a time. The company can and will tell us to go pound sand. That's what lousy language gets you. Keep supporting the twu. It is cowards such as yourself that weaken unions. But you're in good company with cio. Continue to post what your international puppet masters tell you to write. It's easier to play dead than fight for democracy and accountability.

 

[twuer]

TWUer,

The reason the line mechanics have signed their AMFA cards is simple. The TWU has led many of them to the poor house especially in places like California, New York, and Chicago. They can't afford to be TWU members anymore!

Hey Princess,
Does AMFA have any COLA in any of their negotiated contracts??? Or do they just choose to allow the entire maintenance base to close instead???

P.S. What the heck is Kidagakash mean???????????????? Just curious. . .

 

[Hackman]

So Hackman,
Are you agreeing with BOB that if AMFA gets in at AA than the mechanics will look to get $30 per hour right off the bat???? That's what's being promised! Look back over the posts.

Sure, big companies and thier "rulers" aren't always straight forward but there is NO way, let me repeat NO WAY there will be enough $$ to pay the mechanics that much per hour. Unless of course, like I said, layoffs, outsourcing, layoffs, oustsourcing etc!!!! That could get a few dollars more.

We have very DIFFERENT mind sets when it comes to who gets what in this deal. You want more money even if it means that the guy/girl you work next to everyday loses his/her job. I've heard it over and over and over on these boards. It's sad and quite pathetic. You can criticize my way of thinking all you want. It's been done before. But when people lose their jobs it kind of works like a ripple effect. They make nothing they spend nothing, which cause poor numbers in the economy. Don't you get it?????????? Go ahead, spend your time and effort to get what you think you are due and see how far it gets you. . .


oh, and why is this necessary??? (When do stand up and get off your knees twuer?) Aren't you grown up enough to NOT have to resort to this. Oh wait, you learn to do this at your AMFA informational meetings huh?? :unsure:

twuer,

Who promissed that "mechanics will look to get $30 dollars per hour right off the bat'?" Mr. Owens did not state this. I have not read one post from any AMFA supporter that promises anything like this. I have read back over the posts. Bob Owens stated a fact, AMFA members are making an average of $30 hr, where the twu is averaging $15 hr. Do you see any "AMFA promises" in that statement? Sorry, I again fail to see your point. However, making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree? AMFA does not make promises like the twu does. Remember, we have a record setting concessionary twu contract in place
for six years, $30hr will not happen for at least that amount of time, no matter which union is in power.

Are you in possession of an accountant crystal ball here at AA twuer? You have fallen hard for the twu/company line haven't you? Did you believe jim little's outrageous statement that AA was going right past Chapter 11 and into Chapter 7? Therefore setting a pinnacle in the airline business for the first major to go right into liquidation (Chapter 7) without ever attempting reorganization (Chapter 11). If you bought this twu BS, I need to play some poker with you pilgrim, bring cash please, no checks. I'll worry when I see the company stop building terminals, exspanding to Asia, buying airplanes, and hitting management as hard as they hit us. The AA cry of "poor me" falls on deaf ears when I see this sudden prosperity not even a year later.

You are very correct, we do have very different methods of reasoning. Your statement that I want my co-workers to get furlowed for more money is assinine. I want my PROFESSION to prosper. However, I will not be "dumbed down" any longer to just another "airline ground worker" like the company and the twu have accomplished for years. Your inept industrail union "concessions for jobs" concept is a failure. It failed at Eastern, it failed at Pan Am, its failing fast at US Air, and its failing here at AA. Management's inability to run this airline successfully will never be saved or changed by employee give backs. IT NEVER WORKS, AND IT NEVER WILL!!! Do YOU get this???????

I'm sorry, I hurt your sensitive twu feelings by stating you are living on your knees twuer, I'll try to remember your posts never contain any negativity towards any of the AMFA supporters. As usual, the twu is above reproach.

Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you. :unsure:

Hackman,
Very impressive response. As far as the $30 per hour (hypothetical number) you guys have been preaching more money with AMFA from the get go. I would like to know where it will come from if you say there will be no layoffs or outsourcing. I don't buy "from management" crap. You aren't going to squeeze them that tight.

(Hackman quote. . .) making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree?
How is this different that AMFA saying we will be better off with them. That we will have more with AMFA, things will be soooo much better??? A bit hypocritical isn't it??

And yes I do believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we've sacrificed. You poor little AMFA guys think you are the only ones suffering. BOO HOO!!!!!!!! I'm in the same boat you are. Do you have kids. . .that's even harder. Believe me I've looked at both sides and choose to have faith in the union I currently support. Talk all you want about concessions this and concessions that, without further ratification, accountablity. I've heard it all. Times aren't the same as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's a whole different world. A whole different economy. I'm sure I will be getting some history lessons from Bob and Dave in their response to this about how bad things have been in the TWU. I voted to save the company and my job (and yes even yours Hackman). So sue me.

(Hackman quote. . .)This is a top profession with a HUGE responsibility, lives are in our hands.
If AMFA takes over the work will more than likely be outsourced more than it is! Tell me, what will AMFA do for others protection? They can't even get a nod in Washington where the "rules" are made. Don't give me that crap Hackman. I'm not buying it. Having only mechanics in one union is not a reality. It can't happen. It's a real nice thought though but not realistic. What will you do with the ramp guys and baggage handlers (etc) Hackman? Throw them to the way-side??? Abandon them because they don't meet your criteria?????

(Hackman quote. . .)Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you.

I wouldn't expect you to friend!!

twuer,

Sorry, I can't say I am impressed with your statements, I have never been impressed with twu cowardice. GET THIS: When management shows me how they have cut 20% to 25% of their pay and benefits, THEN I WILL CARE ABOUT THE COMPANIES MONEY WOES!!!! Right now, I DO NOT!!!! Continue to believe the twu saved the company. Its no wonder the AA management team loves the other company team. TeAAm twu!!!!

twuer quote; "How is this different that AMFA saying we will be better off with them"
How about accountabilty, democracy, and open communications for instance? AMFA just blows the twu into the weeds on those three words right there. I don't even need to mention the pay and benefits portion. Is that hypocritical? The twu INTERNATIONAL will never have those three words said in the same sentence with them. However, these words will be; dictatorship, cowardice, arrogance, liars, criminals, and OUSTED!!!!

Thats good twuer, you and your kind keep believing Sunny Hall and his gang of unaccountable lying dictators, thats fine with me. Keep on giving to the company, your kids will love you more for it, since they will never see mom and dad because they each are working three jobs to make it. Absence makes the heart grow fonder you know.

Meanwhile, the rest of us that can actually stand upright will press on with the fight to save our careers.

Its cowards like you twuer that give me a headache, I have to go get a asprin now.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

TWUer,

What type of COLA are you talking about? The COLA in the fridge at the TWU union hall? The COLA as in a yearly raise or COLA like the starting TWU wage is so low (poverty level) that we have add extra just get people to transfer there. Of the AMFA contracts I've read, they all have a COLA in them. The starting wages in the AMFA contracts I have read were much higher than our TWU special and they didn't have "B" scale wage rates.OSM's,12-15 year top outs,or junior mechanics either. I wouldn't be talking about closing bases when MCI,STL has or will be gutted to almost nothing by next year. You TWU guys seem to always forget about our TWA people don't you.

As far as what "KIDAGAKASH" means ,I have no earthly idea. You need to talk to Gary Tousdale,Kirk Wise, or Don Hahn about that one.

 

[Bob Owens]

[Very impressive response. As far as the $30 per hour (hypothetical number) you guys have been preaching more money with AMFA from the get go. I would like to know where it will come from if you say there will be no layoffs or outsourcing. I don't buy "from management" crap. You aren't going to squeeze them that tight. [/color]

(Hackman quote. . .) making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree?
How is this different that AMFA saying we will be better off with them. That we will have more with AMFA, things will be soooo much better??? A bit hypocritical isn't it??

And yes I do believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we've sacrificed. You poor little AMFA guys think you are the only ones suffering. BOO HOO!!!!!!!! I'm in the same boat you are. Do you have kids. . .that's even harder. Believe me I've looked at both sides and choose to have faith in the union I currently support. Talk all you want about concessions this and concessions that, without further ratification, accountablity. I've heard it all. Times aren't the same as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's a whole different world. A whole different economy. I'm sure I will be getting some history lessons from Bob and Dave in their response to this about how bad things have been in the TWU. I voted to save the company and my job (and yes even yours Hackman). So sue me.

(Hackman quote. . .)This is a top profession with a HUGE responsibility, lives are in our hands.
If AMFA takes over the work will more than likely be outsourced more than it is! Tell me, what will AMFA do for others protection? They can't even get a nod in Washington where the "rules" are made. Don't give me that crap Hackman. I'm not buying it. Having only mechanics in one union is not a reality. It can't happen. It's a real nice thought though but not realistic. What will you do with the ramp guys and baggage handlers (etc) Hackman? Throw them to the way-side??? Abandon them because they don't meet your criteria?????

(Hackman quote. . .)Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you.

I wouldn't expect you to friend!!

Does Shell or Exxon consider where AA will get the money from? Do the pilots consider where AA will get the money from?

Right now the industry is in a slump. So what? They go through these slumps every business cycle. Are we to set our pay to insure that the company makes a profit even during the worst of times, no matter how poorly it is managed, instead of based upon what we need to support our families? Should we continue to give concessions when the company continues using our sacrifice to expand and buy new aircraft? Remember Cartys dumb comment about how we couldnt afford the first class suites we were putting in the 777?

How long have you been in this industry?

Where you at AA in 95?

We got that concessionary contract put in place to "save jobs, and help the company". The company went on to make record profits while our standard of living declined. The TWU blamed the company, then the local reps then the membership, everyone except themselves.What makes you think that wont happen again?

Jim Little said that the company lied in 95. He said that the company knew that the Me Too clause would be useless because they were already talking to the pilots. I think that the company exaggerated their financial distress. $988 million lost to Goodwill? Prepaid leases? If Little felt that the company lied in 95 why would he trust them again? Why would he once again sign a long term contract after he promised "Not on my watch,, been there done that"?

If there was one thing I learned about Jim Little over the last three years it is that he is a liar.

So you actually believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we have given up. When? Before or after the "fight" to get back all the stuff they gave up in 83, or every other contract since?

Times arent the same as they were 20 years ago or ten years ago? What is so different? Companys were just as greedy and decietful years ago as they are today. The difference is that years ago the unions would fight back and not just roll over, except the TWU. They have been rolling over, and cashing in on the increased membership for 20 years. Years ago the unions would challenge the company's claims of being broke. Jim Little did the opposite, he exaggerated the company's claims by saying that AA might go directly into C-7. Why would he do that? Why would he deliberately decieve the members?

 

[twuer]

[Very impressive response. As far as the $30 per hour (hypothetical number) you guys have been preaching more money with AMFA from the get go. I would like to know where it will come from if you say there will be no layoffs or outsourcing. I don't buy "from management" crap. You aren't going to squeeze them that tight. [/color]

(Hackman quote. . .) making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree?
How is this different that AMFA saying we will be better off with them. That we will have more with AMFA, things will be soooo much better??? A bit hypocritical isn't it??

And yes I do believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we've sacrificed. You poor little AMFA guys think you are the only ones suffering. BOO HOO!!!!!!!! I'm in the same boat you are. Do you have kids. . .that's even harder. Believe me I've looked at both sides and choose to have faith in the union I currently support. Talk all you want about concessions this and concessions that, without further ratification, accountablity. I've heard it all. Times aren't the same as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's a whole different world. A whole different economy. I'm sure I will be getting some history lessons from Bob and Dave in their response to this about how bad things have been in the TWU. I voted to save the company and my job (and yes even yours Hackman). So sue me.

(Hackman quote. . .)This is a top profession with a HUGE responsibility, lives are in our hands.
If AMFA takes over the work will more than likely be outsourced more than it is! Tell me, what will AMFA do for others protection? They can't even get a nod in Washington where the "rules" are made. Don't give me that crap Hackman. I'm not buying it. Having only mechanics in one union is not a reality. It can't happen. It's a real nice thought though but not realistic. What will you do with the ramp guys and baggage handlers (etc) Hackman? Throw them to the way-side??? Abandon them because they don't meet your criteria?????

(Hackman quote. . .)Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you.

I wouldn't expect you to friend!!

Does Shell or Exxon consider where AA will get the money from? Do the pilots consider where AA will get the money from?

Right now the industry is in a slump. So what? They go through these slumps every business cycle. Are we to set our pay to insure that the company makes a profit even during the worst of times, no matter how poorly it is managed, instead of based upon what we need to support our families? Should we continue to give concessions when the company continues using our sacrifice to expand and buy new aircraft? Remember Cartys dumb comment about how we couldnt afford the first class suites we were putting in the 777?

How long have you been in this industry?

Where you at AA in 95?

We got that concessionary contract put in place to "save jobs, and help the company". The company went on to make record profits while our standard of living declined. The TWU blamed the company, then the local reps then the membership, everyone except themselves.What makes you think that wont happen again?

Jim Little said that the company lied in 95. He said that the company knew that the Me Too clause would be useless because they were already talking to the pilots. I think that the company exaggerated their financial distress. $988 million lost to Goodwill? Prepaid leases? If Little felt that the company lied in 95 why would he trust them again? Why would he once again sign a long term contract after he promised "Not on my watch,, been there done that"?

If there was one thing I learned about Jim Little over the last three years it is that he is a liar.

So you actually believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we have given up. When? Before or after the "fight" to get back all the stuff they gave up in 83, or every other contract since?

Times arent the same as they were 20 years ago or ten years ago? What is so different? Companys were just as greedy and decietful years ago as they are today. The difference is that years ago the unions would fight back and not just roll over, except the TWU. They have been rolling over, and cashing in on the increased membership for 20 years. Years ago the unions would challenge the company's claims of being broke. Jim Little did the opposite, he exaggerated the company's claims by saying that AA might go directly into C-7. Why would he do that? Why would he deliberately decieve the members?

Bob,

I was so impressed and rejuvenated today that nothing you say will ever bother me again!! Your boys didn't show BOB! That shows how much they care about the members here in TUL. Dave, Dan, Gary and Don stayed in the lobby. Don't tell anyone but I think they were scared!!!

(BOB)-Right now the industry is in a slump. So what? They go through these slumps every business cycle.

Yeah and 9-11 and war happen every business cycle too? What the heck are you talking about. . ."business cycle"????? You get on these boards claiming that you know every in and out of everything concerning everything!!!!!!! You'r elike a fly on the wall. Blah, blah, blah!!

The TWU is strong and will prevail over AMFA's empty promises.

(BOB)-Times arent the same as they were 20 years ago or ten years ago? What is so different? Companys were just as greedy and decietful years ago as they are today.

Can you read. . .I said times not companies. Companies have proven to be worse now than 20 years ago. But don't get on here and tell me that you know all about the finances of AA because you don't.

You make things too complicated sometimes. The TWU is stronger than ever. I saw proof of that today!!! Will we be seeing you on Saturday???

 

[Hackman]

[Very impressive response. As far as the $30 per hour (hypothetical number) you guys have been preaching more money with AMFA from the get go. I would like to know where it will come from if you say there will be no layoffs or outsourcing. I don't buy "from management" crap. You aren't going to squeeze them that tight. [/color]

(Hackman quote. . .) making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree?
How is this different that AMFA saying we will be better off with them. That we will have more with AMFA, things will be soooo much better??? A bit hypocritical isn't it??

And yes I do believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we've sacrificed. You poor little AMFA guys think you are the only ones suffering. BOO HOO!!!!!!!! I'm in the same boat you are. Do you have kids. . .that's even harder. Believe me I've looked at both sides and choose to have faith in the union I currently support. Talk all you want about concessions this and concessions that, without further ratification, accountablity. I've heard it all. Times aren't the same as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's a whole different world. A whole different economy. I'm sure I will be getting some history lessons from Bob and Dave in their response to this about how bad things have been in the TWU. I voted to save the company and my job (and yes even yours Hackman). So sue me.

(Hackman quote. . .)This is a top profession with a HUGE responsibility, lives are in our hands.
If AMFA takes over the work will more than likely be outsourced more than it is! Tell me, what will AMFA do for others protection? They can't even get a nod in Washington where the "rules" are made. Don't give me that crap Hackman. I'm not buying it. Having only mechanics in one union is not a reality. It can't happen. It's a real nice thought though but not realistic. What will you do with the ramp guys and baggage handlers (etc) Hackman? Throw them to the way-side??? Abandon them because they don't meet your criteria?????

(Hackman quote. . .)Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you.

I wouldn't expect you to friend!!

Does Shell or Exxon consider where AA will get the money from? Do the pilots consider where AA will get the money from?

Right now the industry is in a slump. So what? They go through these slumps every business cycle. Are we to set our pay to insure that the company makes a profit even during the worst of times, no matter how poorly it is managed, instead of based upon what we need to support our families? Should we continue to give concessions when the company continues using our sacrifice to expand and buy new aircraft? Remember Cartys dumb comment about how we couldnt afford the first class suites we were putting in the 777?

How long have you been in this industry?

Where you at AA in 95?

We got that concessionary contract put in place to "save jobs, and help the company". The company went on to make record profits while our standard of living declined. The TWU blamed the company, then the local reps then the membership, everyone except themselves.What makes you think that wont happen again?

Jim Little said that the company lied in 95. He said that the company knew that the Me Too clause would be useless because they were already talking to the pilots. I think that the company exaggerated their financial distress. $988 million lost to Goodwill? Prepaid leases? If Little felt that the company lied in 95 why would he trust them again? Why would he once again sign a long term contract after he promised "Not on my watch,, been there done that"?

If there was one thing I learned about Jim Little over the last three years it is that he is a liar.

So you actually believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we have given up. When? Before or after the "fight" to get back all the stuff they gave up in 83, or every other contract since?

Times arent the same as they were 20 years ago or ten years ago? What is so different? Companys were just as greedy and decietful years ago as they are today. The difference is that years ago the unions would fight back and not just roll over, except the TWU. They have been rolling over, and cashing in on the increased membership for 20 years. Years ago the unions would challenge the company's claims of being broke. Jim Little did the opposite, he exaggerated the company's claims by saying that AA might go directly into C-7. Why would he do that? Why would he deliberately decieve the members?

Bob,

I was so impressed and rejuvenated today that nothing you say will ever bother me again!! Your boys didn't show BOB! That shows how much they care about the members here in TUL. Dave, Dan, Gary and Don stayed in the lobby. Don't tell anyone but I think they were scared!!!

(BOB)-Right now the industry is in a slump. So what? They go through these slumps every business cycle.

Yeah and 9-11 and war happen every business cycle too? What the heck are you talking about. . ."business cycle"????? You get on these boards claiming that you know every in and out of everything concerning everything!!!!!!! You'r elike a fly on the wall. Blah, blah, blah!!

The TWU is strong and will prevail over AMFA's empty promises.

(BOB)-Times arent the same as they were 20 years ago or ten years ago? What is so different? Companys were just as greedy and decietful years ago as they are today.

Can you read. . .I said times not companies. Companies have proven to be worse now than 20 years ago. But don't get on here and tell me that you know all about the finances of AA because you don't.

You make things too complicated sometimes. The TWU is stronger than ever. I saw proof of that today!!! Will we be seeing you on Saturday???

Impressed with what twuer? Tell us what impressed you today about the twu dog and pony show. Did ANY of your teflon international leaders show up? I would like to have come, but I had to work. But then, the twu planned it that way. Unlike TeAAm twu, I can't get UB to come. Did you get your UB to go to a debate where members of the same union debate each other? What a joke.

Dave, Don, Gary, Dan scared of twu cowards? I don't think so. See how scared they are on Saturday. We all know Sunny and the twu international cowards will be. They let the local 514 liars club do there bidding so they don't have to answer to the members.

Come on twuer, your telling us you don't know what a "business cycle" is? I thought you were smart for a twu coward, I guess I was wrong.

The twu is strong? Keep on repeating: "We have no layoffs, we have no concessions, we have no layoffs, we have no concessions, we have.........." or "there is no AMFA drive, there is no AMFA drive, there is no.........".

How many retirees did you have today? Did you fill the room with them?

Things are often complicated, especially when your a twu simpleton.

See you Saturday.

 

[twuer]

[Very impressive response. As far as the $30 per hour (hypothetical number) you guys have been preaching more money with AMFA from the get go. I would like to know where it will come from if you say there will be no layoffs or outsourcing. I don't buy "from management" crap. You aren't going to squeeze them that tight. [/color]

(Hackman quote. . .) making promises like Sunny Hall did saying we will recover our lost pay and beneifits is a presumptuous way of thinking at this stage in the airline game, don't you agree?
How is this different that AMFA saying we will be better off with them. That we will have more with AMFA, things will be soooo much better??? A bit hypocritical isn't it??

And yes I do believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we've sacrificed. You poor little AMFA guys think you are the only ones suffering. BOO HOO!!!!!!!! I'm in the same boat you are. Do you have kids. . .that's even harder. Believe me I've looked at both sides and choose to have faith in the union I currently support. Talk all you want about concessions this and concessions that, without further ratification, accountablity. I've heard it all. Times aren't the same as they were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's a whole different world. A whole different economy. I'm sure I will be getting some history lessons from Bob and Dave in their response to this about how bad things have been in the TWU. I voted to save the company and my job (and yes even yours Hackman). So sue me.

(Hackman quote. . .)This is a top profession with a HUGE responsibility, lives are in our hands.
If AMFA takes over the work will more than likely be outsourced more than it is! Tell me, what will AMFA do for others protection? They can't even get a nod in Washington where the "rules" are made. Don't give me that crap Hackman. I'm not buying it. Having only mechanics in one union is not a reality. It can't happen. It's a real nice thought though but not realistic. What will you do with the ramp guys and baggage handlers (etc) Hackman? Throw them to the way-side??? Abandon them because they don't meet your criteria?????

(Hackman quote. . .)Just keep on believing "concessions for jobs" theory, and I will still see you standing in the government cheese line, just don't speak to any of us who actually stood up for ourselves. We won't hear you.

I wouldn't expect you to friend!!

Does Shell or Exxon consider where AA will get the money from? Do the pilots consider where AA will get the money from?

Right now the industry is in a slump. So what? They go through these slumps every business cycle. Are we to set our pay to insure that the company makes a profit even during the worst of times, no matter how poorly it is managed, instead of based upon what we need to support our families? Should we continue to give concessions when the company continues using our sacrifice to expand and buy new aircraft? Remember Cartys dumb comment about how we couldnt afford the first class suites we were putting in the 777?

How long have you been in this industry?

Where you at AA in 95?

We got that concessionary contract put in place to "save jobs, and help the company". The company went on to make record profits while our standard of living declined. The TWU blamed the company, then the local reps then the membership, everyone except themselves.What makes you think that wont happen again?

Jim Little said that the company lied in 95. He said that the company knew that the Me Too clause would be useless because they were already talking to the pilots. I think that the company exaggerated their financial distress. $988 million lost to Goodwill? Prepaid leases? If Little felt that the company lied in 95 why would he trust them again? Why would he once again sign a long term contract after he promised "Not on my watch,, been there done that"?

If there was one thing I learned about Jim Little over the last three years it is that he is a liar.

So you actually believe that the TWU will fight to get back what we have given up. When? Before or after the "fight" to get back all the stuff they gave up in 83, or every other contract since?

Times arent the same as they were 20 years ago or ten years ago? What is so different? Companys were just as greedy and decietful years ago as they are today. The difference is that years ago the unions would fight back and not just roll over, except the TWU. They have been rolling over, and cashing in on the increased membership for 20 years. Years ago the unions would challenge the company's claims of being broke. Jim Little did the opposite, he exaggerated the company's claims by saying that AA might go directly into C-7. Why would he do that? Why would he deliberately decieve the members?

Bob,

I was so impressed and rejuvenated today that nothing you say will ever bother me again!! Your boys didn't show BOB! That shows how much they care about the members here in TUL. Dave, Dan, Gary and Don stayed in the lobby. Don't tell anyone but I think they were scared!!!

(BOB)-Right now the industry is in a slump. So what? They go through these slumps every business cycle.

Yeah and 9-11 and war happen every business cycle too? What the heck are you talking about. . ."business cycle"????? You get on these boards claiming that you know every in and out of everything concerning everything!!!!!!! You'r elike a fly on the wall. Blah, blah, blah!!

The TWU is strong and will prevail over AMFA's empty promises.

(BOB)-Times arent the same as they were 20 years ago or ten years ago? What is so different? Companys were just as greedy and decietful years ago as they are today.

Can you read. . .I said times not companies. Companies have proven to be worse now than 20 years ago. But don't get on here and tell me that you know all about the finances of AA because you don't.

You make things too complicated sometimes. The TWU is stronger than ever. I saw proof of that today!!! Will we be seeing you on Saturday???

Impressed with what twuer? Tell us what impressed you today about the twu dog and pony show. Did ANY of your teflon international leaders show up? I would like to have come, but I had to work. But then, the twu planned it that way. Unlike TeAAm twu, I can't get UB to come. Did you get your UB to go to a debate where members of the same union debate each other? What a joke.

Dave, Don, Gary, Dan scared of twu cowards? I don't think so. See how scared they are on Saturday. We all know Sunny and the twu international cowards will be. They let the local 514 liars club do there bidding so they don't have to answer to the members.

Come on twuer, your telling us you don't know what a "business cycle" is? I thought you were smart for a twu coward, I guess I was wrong.

The twu is strong? Keep on repeating: "We have no layoffs, we have no concessions, we have no layoffs, we have no concessions, we have.........." or "there is no AMFA drive, there is no AMFA drive, there is no.........".

How many retirees did you have today? Did you fill the room with them?

Things are often complicated, especially when your a twu simpleton.

See you Saturday.

Everything impressed me today!! The debaters, the questions from the members, the members themselves who came to the debate. Heck I was even impressed with the very few AMFA supporters who WERE willing to come in and ask questions. That took a lot of courage. Courage that your boys didn't have!!!!!!!!!! Why weren't you there? Don't you care to stand up for your cause?

And yes, Dan, Dave, Don and Gary were scared. If they weren't they would have come in and debated the issues. I thought they were looking for new members?? I thought they were looking to further their cause?? I thought they were looking to score brownie points with Dell himself?? I guess they will do their butt kissin' on Saturday. OOPS, sorry, that one was too easy!! I'm sure they will be their best on Saturday. That, I have no doubt.

Hey Hackman, how many AMFA supporters do you think will be there Saturday?