Dellzzzzz Still A No Show

[Buck]

You ready for that debate on the 15th???

Are you having a debate?

 

[Bob Owens]

[


Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????


Here is the typical TWU I got mine attitude. The attitude that has been promoted by the TWU/ATD for over 20 years.

The attitude that said "Screw the newborn" and got us B-scale all the way back in 1983.

"Why should you care?"

Imagine a comment like THAT coming out of someone who claims to be a unionist!!!

"Why should you care?"

Wouldnt a true unionists be telling us why we should care about our brother instead of questioning us why we should care?

With leaders with this type of mentality is easy to see why the labor movement is in such bad shape.

With the TWU we cant even remove such self centered individuals who have no concept of the principles of unionsim. No concept of the true depth of the meaning behind the rhetoric and slogans they so easily belt out.

Clearly the whole structure is so corrupt that there can be little doubt that our best bet is to abandon it and rebuild.

You want solid evidence as to what the future holds? Stuff like that does not exist. Evidence can only prove the past, at best it can give a reasonable expectation of the future. The graph we put in the Tulsa world just prior to the vote is rock solid evidence of the TWUs performance over the last twenty years, and a reasonable expectation of what we can expect in the future. Can you give us solid evidence that the future with the TWU will be different than the past?

Go AMFA and AGW today!



Was that short enough for ya?

 

[twuer]

[


Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????


Here is the typical TWU I got mine attitude. The attitude that has been promoted by the TWU/ATD for over 20 years.

The attitude that said "Screw the newborn" and got us B-scale all the way back in 1983.

"Why should you care?"

Imagine a comment like THAT coming out of someone who claims to be a unionist!!!

"Why should you care?"

Wouldnt a true unionists be telling us why we should care about our brother instead of questioning us why we should care?

With leaders with this type of mentality is easy to see why the labor movement is in such bad shape.

With the TWU we cant even remove such self centered individuals who have no concept of the principles of unionsim. No concept of the true depth of the meaning behind the rhetoric and slogans they so easily belt out.

Clearly the whole structure is so corrupt that there can be little doubt that our best bet is to abandon it and rebuild.

You want solid evidence as to what the future holds? Stuff like that does not exist. Evidence can only prove the past, at best it can give a reasonable expectation of the future. The graph we put in the Tulsa world just prior to the vote is rock solid evidence of the TWUs performance over the last twenty years, and a reasonable expectation of what we can expect in the future. Can you give us solid evidence that the future with the TWU will be different than the past?

Go AMFA and AGW today!



Was that short enough for ya?

And now you take my words and spin them and interpret them as you see fit. Why don't you quote the whole post BOB. I was talking about how AMFA will be a company union because they will save the company money by allowing farm-outs and layoffs etc. My questions were directed at the mind set of the line mechanics that have signed cards that WON'T be affected by heavy maintenance outsourcing. If they vote to have AMFA in they take the risk of work going elsewhere just so they can get a dollar or two more an hour. I was asking Informer why should he even care. Yes it was that simple and you ran away with it. Shame on you BOB! Don't you have anything better to do than to take someone elses words and turn them into your own spun rhetoric? It's actually pretty offensive. :down: :down: :down:

(part of my original post. . .)
You didn't dispute my comments. Layoffs, farm-outs, and base closings will save a company way more money. Look, noone is happy with all those things you listed but the majority of us still have a job. I know you think that AMFA is going to come in and save us all but that just won't happen. Delle might be a fine guy, having a union with just mechanics is a fine idea (but not realistic) but they won't fix a thing. You also talk about the division between the line and base mechanics. Do you think AMFA will fix that??? The reason you have a lot of line mechanics (not meant to talk bad about them) that have signed cards is because the "effects" of AMFA will not be felt by them for the most part. Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????

It's pretty clear to me.

 

[twuer]

[


Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????


Here is the typical TWU I got mine attitude. The attitude that has been promoted by the TWU/ATD for over 20 years.

The attitude that said "Screw the newborn" and got us B-scale all the way back in 1983.

"Why should you care?"

Imagine a comment like THAT coming out of someone who claims to be a unionist!!!

"Why should you care?"

Wouldnt a true unionists be telling us why we should care about our brother instead of questioning us why we should care?

With leaders with this type of mentality is easy to see why the labor movement is in such bad shape.

With the TWU we cant even remove such self centered individuals who have no concept of the principles of unionsim. No concept of the true depth of the meaning behind the rhetoric and slogans they so easily belt out.

Clearly the whole structure is so corrupt that there can be little doubt that our best bet is to abandon it and rebuild.

You want solid evidence as to what the future holds? Stuff like that does not exist. Evidence can only prove the past, at best it can give a reasonable expectation of the future. The graph we put in the Tulsa world just prior to the vote is rock solid evidence of the TWUs performance over the last twenty years, and a reasonable expectation of what we can expect in the future. Can you give us solid evidence that the future with the TWU will be different than the past?

Go AMFA and AGW today!



Was that short enough for ya?

And now you take my words and spin them and interpret them as you see fit. Why don't you quote the whole post BOB. I was talking about how AMFA will be a company union because they will save the company money by allowing farm-outs and layoffs etc. My questions were directed at the mind set of the line mechanics that have signed cards that WON'T be affected by heavy maintenance outsourcing. If they vote to have AMFA in they take the risk of work going elsewhere just so they can get a dollar or two more an hour. I was asking Informer why should he even care. Yes it was that simple and you ran away with it. Shame on you BOB! Don't you have anything better to do than to take someone elses words and turn them into your own spun rhetoric? It's actually pretty offensive. :down: :down: :down:

(part of my original post. . .)
You didn't dispute my comments. Layoffs, farm-outs, and base closings will save a company way more money. Look, noone is happy with all those things you listed but the majority of us still have a job. I know you think that AMFA is going to come in and save us all but that just won't happen. Delle might be a fine guy, having a union with just mechanics is a fine idea (but not realistic) but they won't fix a thing. You also talk about the division between the line and base mechanics. Do you think AMFA will fix that??? The reason you have a lot of line mechanics (not meant to talk bad about them) that have signed cards is because the "effects" of AMFA will not be felt by them for the most part. Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????

It's pretty clear to me.

 

[Bob Owens]

[


Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????


Here is the typical TWU I got mine attitude. The attitude that has been promoted by the TWU/ATD for over 20 years.

The attitude that said "Screw the newborn" and got us B-scale all the way back in 1983.

"Why should you care?"

Imagine a comment like THAT coming out of someone who claims to be a unionist!!!

"Why should you care?"

Wouldnt a true unionists be telling us why we should care about our brother instead of questioning us why we should care?

With leaders with this type of mentality is easy to see why the labor movement is in such bad shape.

With the TWU we cant even remove such self centered individuals who have no concept of the principles of unionsim. No concept of the true depth of the meaning behind the rhetoric and slogans they so easily belt out.

Clearly the whole structure is so corrupt that there can be little doubt that our best bet is to abandon it and rebuild.

You want solid evidence as to what the future holds? Stuff like that does not exist. Evidence can only prove the past, at best it can give a reasonable expectation of the future. The graph we put in the Tulsa world just prior to the vote is rock solid evidence of the TWUs performance over the last twenty years, and a reasonable expectation of what we can expect in the future. Can you give us solid evidence that the future with the TWU will be different than the past?

Go AMFA and AGW today!



Was that short enough for ya?

And now you take my words and spin them and interpret them as you see fit. Why don't you quote the whole post BOB. I was talking about how AMFA will be a company union because they will save the company money by allowing farm-outs and layoffs etc. My questions were directed at the mind set of the line mechanics that have signed cards that WON'T be affected by heavy maintenance outsourcing. If they vote to have AMFA in they take the risk of work going elsewhere just so they can get a dollar or two more an hour. I was asking Informer why should he even care. Yes it was that simple and you ran away with it. Shame on you BOB! Don't you have anything better to do than to take someone elses words and turn them into your own spun rhetoric? It's actually pretty offensive. :down: :down: :down:

(part of my original post. . .)
You didn't dispute my comments. Layoffs, farm-outs, and base closings will save a company way more money. Look, noone is happy with all those things you listed but the majority of us still have a job. I know you think that AMFA is going to come in and save us all but that just won't happen. Delle might be a fine guy, having a union with just mechanics is a fine idea (but not realistic) but they won't fix a thing. You also talk about the division between the line and base mechanics. Do you think AMFA will fix that??? The reason you have a lot of line mechanics (not meant to talk bad about them) that have signed cards is because the "effects" of AMFA will not be felt by them for the most part. Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????

It's pretty clear to me.

And now you take my words and spin them and interpret them as you see fit.

Isnt that my right? Feel free to clarify.

Why don't you quote the whole post BOB.

You were the one who complained that my posts were too long.

I was talking about how AMFA will be a company union because they will save the company money by allowing farm-outs and layoffs etc.

If that was the case then why isnt the company making it easier for AMFA to get in? Why are they saying to the press how much they love the TWU? Wouldnt any company rather keep work in house at lower costs than contracting out? Isnt that what the TWU provides? Seems to me that the TWU is the company union.

My questions were directed at the mind set of the line mechanics that have signed cards that WON'T be affected by heavy maintenance outsourcing.

So you were directing questions at a "mindset"? I thought you were directing them at The Informer". Could you explain that? How could you claim that outsourcing heavy maint would not affect the line? If all of heavy maint was outsourced those guys would bump out onto the line.

If they vote to have AMFA in they take the risk of work going elsewhere just so they can get a dollar or two more an hour.

That risk is always there, no matter who represents us. We can not concede enough to make up for bad management, the TWU should have learned that after Pan Am.Besides what about all of our laid off mechanics?


I was asking Informer why should he even care.


I know, and that is what I commented on. Why would you ask him why he should care?

Yes it was that simple and you ran away with it.

Sure I did. Why shouldnt I? You made a dumb entry and I capitalized on it. Isn't that what a debate is about? You wouldnt do the same if given the opportunity? You want to see how things can be spun? Look at the transcripts from my trial and see how Sonny's lynch squad spun things! At least you are given the opportunity to rebutt. The prosecution put on such a weak case that they had to spin it themselves.

Shame on you BOB!

Shame on Me? You are the one hiding your identity. Obviously you have more to be shameful about than I do.

Don't you have anything better to do than to take someone elses words and turn them into your own spun rhetoric?

I do but this is fun. Its fun to use your rhetoric against you. You guys make it so easy!

It's actually pretty offensive.

I'm sorry, but there is more at stake here than your feelings.

 

[twuer]

[


Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????


Here is the typical TWU I got mine attitude. The attitude that has been promoted by the TWU/ATD for over 20 years.

The attitude that said "Screw the newborn" and got us B-scale all the way back in 1983.

"Why should you care?"

Imagine a comment like THAT coming out of someone who claims to be a unionist!!!

"Why should you care?"

Wouldnt a true unionists be telling us why we should care about our brother instead of questioning us why we should care?

With leaders with this type of mentality is easy to see why the labor movement is in such bad shape.

With the TWU we cant even remove such self centered individuals who have no concept of the principles of unionsim. No concept of the true depth of the meaning behind the rhetoric and slogans they so easily belt out.

Clearly the whole structure is so corrupt that there can be little doubt that our best bet is to abandon it and rebuild.

You want solid evidence as to what the future holds? Stuff like that does not exist. Evidence can only prove the past, at best it can give a reasonable expectation of the future. The graph we put in the Tulsa world just prior to the vote is rock solid evidence of the TWUs performance over the last twenty years, and a reasonable expectation of what we can expect in the future. Can you give us solid evidence that the future with the TWU will be different than the past?

Go AMFA and AGW today!



Was that short enough for ya?

And now you take my words and spin them and interpret them as you see fit. Why don't you quote the whole post BOB. I was talking about how AMFA will be a company union because they will save the company money by allowing farm-outs and layoffs etc. My questions were directed at the mind set of the line mechanics that have signed cards that WON'T be affected by heavy maintenance outsourcing. If they vote to have AMFA in they take the risk of work going elsewhere just so they can get a dollar or two more an hour. I was asking Informer why should he even care. Yes it was that simple and you ran away with it. Shame on you BOB! Don't you have anything better to do than to take someone elses words and turn them into your own spun rhetoric? It's actually pretty offensive. :down: :down: :down:

(part of my original post. . .)
You didn't dispute my comments. Layoffs, farm-outs, and base closings will save a company way more money. Look, noone is happy with all those things you listed but the majority of us still have a job. I know you think that AMFA is going to come in and save us all but that just won't happen. Delle might be a fine guy, having a union with just mechanics is a fine idea (but not realistic) but they won't fix a thing. You also talk about the division between the line and base mechanics. Do you think AMFA will fix that??? The reason you have a lot of line mechanics (not meant to talk bad about them) that have signed cards is because the "effects" of AMFA will not be felt by them for the most part. Why should they care about farm-out of heavy maintenance?? Why should they care that many people will lose their jobs?? Heck, why should you care??????

It's pretty clear to me.

And now you take my words and spin them and interpret them as you see fit.

Isnt that my right? Feel free to clarify.

Why don't you quote the whole post BOB.

You were the one who complained that my posts were too long.

I was talking about how AMFA will be a company union because they will save the company money by allowing farm-outs and layoffs etc.

If that was the case then why isnt the company making it easier for AMFA to get in? Why are they saying to the press how much they love the TWU? Wouldnt any company rather keep work in house at lower costs than contracting out? Isnt that what the TWU provides? Seems to me that the TWU is the company union.

My questions were directed at the mind set of the line mechanics that have signed cards that WON'T be affected by heavy maintenance outsourcing.

So you were directing questions at a "mindset"? I thought you were directing them at The Informer". Could you explain that? How could you claim that outsourcing heavy maint would not affect the line? If all of heavy maint was outsourced those guys would bump out onto the line.

If they vote to have AMFA in they take the risk of work going elsewhere just so they can get a dollar or two more an hour.

That risk is always there, no matter who represents us. We can not concede enough to make up for bad management, the TWU should have learned that after Pan Am.Besides what about all of our laid off mechanics?


I was asking Informer why should he even care.


I know, and that is what I commented on. Why would you ask him why he should care?

Yes it was that simple and you ran away with it.

Sure I did. Why shouldnt I? You made a dumb entry and I capitalized on it. Isn't that what a debate is about? You wouldnt do the same if given the opportunity? You want to see how things can be spun? Look at the transcripts from my trial and see how Sonny's lynch squad spun things! At least you are given the opportunity to rebutt. The prosecution put on such a weak case that they had to spin it themselves.

Shame on you BOB!

Shame on Me? You are the one hiding your identity. Obviously you have more to be shameful about than I do.

Don't you have anything better to do than to take someone elses words and turn them into your own spun rhetoric?

I do but this is fun. Its fun to use your rhetoric against you. You guys make it so easy!

It's actually pretty offensive.

I'm sorry, but there is more at stake here than your feelings.

Dang BOB, you make me tired!!! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!!!!!! You can't make anything easy can you????

So, will we be seeing you here in Tulsa or not? By the way, how's the weather in NY?? Just wondering, or will you spin that too??? :blink:

 

[Bob Owens]

Dang BOB, you make me tired!!! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!!!!!! You can't make anything easy can you????

So, will we be seeing you here in Tulsa or not? By the way, how's the weather in NY?? Just wondering, or will you spin that too??? :blink:

Is that your response?

So you dont dispute that the TWU is a company union?

You didnt explain how if heavy maint was outsourced it would not affect the line. You made the statement, now you dont want to back it up?

Why did you ask the Informer why he should care?

Are you abandoning the debate, again?

 

[twuer]

Dang BOB, you make me tired!!! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!!!!!! You can't make anything easy can you????

So, will we be seeing you here in Tulsa or not? By the way, how's the weather in NY?? Just wondering, or will you spin that too??? :blink:

Is that your response?

So you dont dispute that the TWU is a company union?

You didnt explain how if heavy maint was outsourced it would not affect the line. You made the statement, now you dont want to back it up?

"Why did you ask the Informer why he should care?"

Are you abandoning the debate, again?

I apologize for not getting back to you as quick as you would of liked.

You know BOB, you are absolutely correct. I beg you pardon. Not only will outsourcing affect base mechanics it WILL affect the line mechanics too if they are unlucky enough not to have the seniority. There are all kinds of possibilities in that situation. Line mechanics are not considered in general when discussing outsourcing. Looks like AMFA will hurt MORE than less. Funny how that works.

(BOB) - Why did you ask the Informer why he should care?

Why did I ask Informer why he should care?? To use your own words BOB, "Isnt that my right"? You see he didn't answer me.

 

[Bob Owens]

I apologize for not getting back to you as quick as you would of liked.

You know BOB, you are absolutely correct. I beg you pardon. Not only will outsourcing affect base mechanics it WILL affect the line mechanics too if they are unlucky enough not to have the seniority. There are all kinds of possibilities in that situation. Line mechanics are not considered in general when discussing outsourcing. Looks like AMFA will hurt MORE than less. Funny how that works.

(BOB) - Why did you ask the Informer why he should care?

Why did I ask Informer why he should care?? To use your own words BOB, "Isnt that my right"? You see he didn't answer me.

If we had kept our language and actually ENFORCED it the company could have only laid off workers with less than a March 1, 2001 seniority date. So if the company outsourced the work what would they do with all those workers?

"Line mechanics are not considered in general when discussing outsourcing."


Line mechanics are not considered period with the TWU. Thats why 90% have filled out cards, including laid off mechanics who actually came back specifically to get cards.


Looks like AMFA will hurt MORE than less.


Doubtful. The average AMFA member makes over $30/hr while the average TWU members makes around $15/hr. No true unionist would argue against the concept of uniting all workers who do the same type of work under one union. Whether its narrowed down to just mechanics or all of the workers in the industry the goal of the concept is the same, to prevent the companies from using their workers compensation and benifits in order to gain a competative edge over others in the same industry.


Why did I ask Informer why he should care?? To use your own words BOB, "Isnt that my right"? You see he didn't answer me.


Sure it is your right. It just seems to be an unusual question coming from someone who claims to be a unionist. I would think that a unionist would try to encourage a union brother to care about another union brother, not say "Why should you care?". Perhaps he did not answer because it goes without saying why he should care. Then again its his perrogative, you certainly chose to not answer more questions than you do answer. Are there two standards here?

 

[twuer]

I apologize for not getting back to you as quick as you would of liked. 

You know BOB, you are absolutely correct. I beg you pardon. Not only will outsourcing affect base mechanics it WILL affect the line mechanics too if they are unlucky enough not to have the seniority. There are all kinds of possibilities in that situation. Line mechanics are not considered in general when discussing outsourcing. Looks like AMFA will hurt MORE than less. Funny how that works.

(BOB) - Why did you ask the Informer why he should care?

Why did I ask Informer why he should care?? To use your own words BOB, "Isnt that my right"? You see he didn't answer me.

If we had kept our language and actually ENFORCED it the company could have only laid off workers with less than a March 1, 2001 seniority date. So if the company outsourced the work what would they do with all those workers?

"Line mechanics are not considered in general when discussing outsourcing."


Line mechanics are not considered period with the TWU. Thats why 90% have filled out cards, including laid off mechanics who actually came back specifically to get cards.


Looks like AMFA will hurt MORE than less.


Doubtful. The average AMFA member makes over $30/hr while the average TWU members makes around $15/hr. No true unionist would argue against the concept of uniting all workers who do the same type of work under one union. Whether its narrowed down to just mechanics or all of the workers in the industry the goal of the concept is the same, to prevent the companies from using their workers compensation and benifits in order to gain a competative edge over others in the same industry.


Why did I ask Informer why he should care?? To use your own words BOB, "Isnt that my right"? You see he didn't answer me.


Sure it is your right. It just seems to be an unusual question coming from someone who claims to be a unionist. I would think that a unionist would try to encourage a union brother to care about another union brother, not say "Why should you care?". Perhaps he did not answer because it goes without saying why he should care. Then again its his perrogative, you certainly chose to not answer more questions than you do answer. Are there two standards here?

Let me get this straight BOB. Are you saying that if AMFA were to get in at AA that the mechanics would get $30 per hour like you have been preaching and preaching and preaching??? Tell me BOB. . .where will the money come from?????
AA is not even making a profit yet. I just got an article that said that the airlines will report a $1 billion loss this quarter. So I'll ask again BOB, where will the money come from to pay mechanics at AA $30 per hour like you have been saying??????? Or even pay them $25 per hour????

You know, maybe since all those mechanics will lose their jobs if AMFA gets control maybe there will be a little room for a wage increase. (a dollar maybe) But what do you tell the guy or girl, that if they vote for AMFA, they will more than likely LOSE thier job!!!!

You are promising things you can't deliver and unfortunately people are believing you.

 

[Hackman]

I apologize for not getting back to you as quick as you would of liked.

You know BOB, you are absolutely correct. I beg you pardon. Not only will outsourcing affect base mechanics it WILL affect the line mechanics too if they are unlucky enough not to have the seniority. There are all kinds of possibilities in that situation. Line mechanics are not considered in general when discussing outsourcing. Looks like AMFA will hurt MORE than less. Funny how that works.

(BOB) - Why did you ask the Informer why he should care?

Why did I ask Informer why he should care?? To use your own words BOB, "Isnt that my right"? You see he didn't answer me.

If we had kept our language and actually ENFORCED it the company could have only laid off workers with less than a March 1, 2001 seniority date. So if the company outsourced the work what would they do with all those workers?

"Line mechanics are not considered in general when discussing outsourcing."


Line mechanics are not considered period with the TWU. Thats why 90% have filled out cards, including laid off mechanics who actually came back specifically to get cards.


Looks like AMFA will hurt MORE than less.


Doubtful. The average AMFA member makes over $30/hr while the average TWU members makes around $15/hr. No true unionist would argue against the concept of uniting all workers who do the same type of work under one union. Whether its narrowed down to just mechanics or all of the workers in the industry the goal of the concept is the same, to prevent the companies from using their workers compensation and benifits in order to gain a competative edge over others in the same industry.


Why did I ask Informer why he should care?? To use your own words BOB, "Isnt that my right"? You see he didn't answer me.


Sure it is your right. It just seems to be an unusual question coming from someone who claims to be a unionist. I would think that a unionist would try to encourage a union brother to care about another union brother, not say "Why should you care?". Perhaps he did not answer because it goes without saying why he should care. Then again its his perrogative, you certainly chose to not answer more questions than you do answer. Are there two standards here?

Let me get this straight BOB. Are you saying that if AMFA were to get in at AA that the mechanics would get $30 per hour like you have been preaching and preaching and preaching??? Tell me BOB. . .where will the money come from?????
AA is not even making a profit yet. I just got an article that said that the airlines will report a $1 billion loss this quarter. So I'll ask again BOB, where will the money come from to pay mechanics at AA $30 per hour like you have been saying??????? Or even pay them $25 per hour????

You know, maybe since all those mechanics will lose their jobs if AMFA gets control maybe there will be a little room for a wage increase. (a dollar maybe) But what do you tell the guy or girl, that if they vote for AMFA, they will more than likely LOSE thier job!!!!

You are promising things you can't deliver and unfortunately people are believing you.

twuer,

I keep hearing the same arguement from all the twu true believers: "if AMFA gets in, you will lose your job".

Let me ask, when do you and your twu say ENOUGH, and stand your ground twuer?

Do you keep giving until your down to Wal-Mart wages and benefits? We are close!

When do you "get 'em next time"?

Twuer, are you to blind to see that AMR hides money? They are as crooked as a country road, (as you witnessed last spring). There is no possible way AMR could have went from 1.5 billion to 3.5 billion on a 1 million dollar profit.

How can they even consider buying US Air's shuttle if we are so broke?

The fact is sir or madam, AMFA is fighting the layoffs at NWA in arbitration, I'm sure you know this (you just can't say it). The cases have been heard and decisions are forthcoming. AMFA did not "let" NWA layoff the mechanics. AMFA is the only union fighting the layoffs without letting the company suck them dry like AMR and the twu has done to us.

No union wants to see layoffs, thats dues monies going out the door. Concessions for jobs does not work, because you will never see again what you gave up for a very, very long time, if ever. The statement that Sunny Hall made that we will get everything back we gave up is lunacy. This is the twu for gods sake, please, call your good friend Sunny and tell him to stop lying.

Your twu believer notion that AMFA give away jobs is idiotic.

What about our layoffs at AA twuer? Did you forget about them?

When do stand up and get off your knees twuer?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

twuer, reading your responses to Bob Owens makes for some entertaining reading. Thank you. You like to reply to Bob that he spins your posts or only takes parts to task. Well, every time you post to Bob claiming, AMFA bad-twu good you open your self to the truth. And quite simply, the truth hurts doesn't it? I will ask you two simple questions that I hope you, or those who tell you what to post, can answer.
1) What is so bad about ALL AMTs belonging to a craft, democratic union?

2) Why did the twu not demand snap back clauses after the concession package duration?

These are simple questions. No spin required. As for the 17th I will be in Tulsa for the debate. Since the twu international will fear to show up this will be a good AMFA informational meeting. If you go please introduce yourself to me. I would like to see what a coward looks like.

 

[Bob Owens]

Let me get this straight BOB. Are you saying that if AMFA were to get in at AA that the mechanics would get $30 per hour like you have been preaching and preaching and preaching???

Preaching? I've been stating that all the mechanics should get into one union. I dont recall making promises. If so tell me where. The fact is that workers who are in industry focused unions, such as pilots, carpenters, electricians etc tend to do better than those that belong to catch all unions like the TWU. As far as figures I stated that the average AMFA member makes $30/hr while the average TWU member makes $15/hr. So if we are making double of what the average TWU member makes how much of a priority will the TWU place on getting us up to $40/hr? How could they justify putting a whole lot of effort into that when most of the members make much less than half of that but are in the same union?

AA is not even making a profit yet.


So, and if they go to record profits next year what will happen to our contract? Will we automatically get back everything that we lost plus a raise?

I just got an article that said that the airlines will report a $1 billion loss this quarter. So I'll ask again BOB, where will the money come from to pay mechanics at AA $30 per hour like you have been saying??????? Or even pay them $25 per hour????

It will come from the same place that allows the company to pay the pilots $300/hr and buy new airplanes and build new terminals and pay our executives etc. We do not determine how the company allocates their money, why should we set our rates of pay on what the company feels they want to pay? Does Shell or Exxon do that?


You know, maybe since all those mechanics will lose their jobs if AMFA gets control maybe there will be a little room for a wage increase. (a dollar maybe) But what do you tell the guy or girl, that if they vote for AMFA, they will more than likely LOSE thier job!!!!


Spoken like a true union buster. Dont fight, submit or you may lose your job. The TWU said it in 1983, 1995 and 2003, yet despite all these so called crisis's AA has contnued to expand more and more. Over this period they have tripled in size. The TWUs strategy for expansion is the same as WalMarts;"The lowest price everyday". Instead of helping overall employment it destroys good jobs throughout the industry in exchange for lower paying jobs as members of the TWU. The TWU is not about "saving" jobs, they are about eliminating high paying jobs in order to get more members. They masquerade as a union but they are the opposite of a union.

You are promising things you can't deliver and unfortunately people are believing you.

And what has the TWU delivered over the last twenty years besides concessions followed by more concessions?

 

[Superside]

...And what has the TWU delivered over the last twenty years besides concessions followed by more concessions?

Answer...LIES!

 

[scorpion]

twuer says
Tell me BOB. . .where will the money come from?????

twuer
I've got a good idea, how about from management. There was supposed to be shared sacrifice, what happened??? Management didn't lose anything compared to what the twu allowed to be NEGOTIATED away. How much bleeding heart sympathy do you think AA could get from the media or the public if the twu would have stood their ground and said no concessions unless management takes the same hit. This would have put AA in a position to spread the cuts around. Now thanks to the twu were second class citizens and management walks around like their untouchable. Spreading the cuts around could have saved us a few dollars anyway. The twu is so concerned with preserving their dues base the've forgotten that their main purpose is to be a bargaining agent.

Whats really strange and shows how out of touch the international has become is by the way they challenged their own members to debate each other through a fax sent to Delle Femine. If they want their own members to debate each other why tell Delle? STRRRAAAANNGE. Or is this just plain cowardice.
There is really no way to spin this. The international has become a bitter pill for the membership to swallow. While there are a few sheep left in Tulsa who buy into the spin most are finally starting to wake up. If sonny or one of his hired hands don't get out and try to fix the fence saturday here in T town he has only himself to blame if all the sheep go wild.