Something To Ponder 2

[Johnny Lunchbox]

We all know what type of Union man you are. Even your fellow TWU supporters send out private E-mails dissassociating themselves from you and are quick to point out that you hold no official position.

When you were an IAM Steward you were probably true blue to them, until you realized you could not hack it and you went into management, then you were true blue to them, until once again, you could not hack it, now you are TWU true blue, but only as safe spectator because even the MCI local wont trust you with anything more than being the local jester.

But I guess if it gets you off the floor and out of work you have finally found your niche.

Where does your anger generate from Bob? From your gut, can't be..that would be a whole lot of anger. Does a management job evade you Bob? Perhaps if you'd bone up, no pun intended, on your people skills, and attempt to resolve your inner battles then and only then Bob apply, perhaps they'll forget what a phony you are and give you a shot. You need to set yourself an attainable goal, other than one as official "biggest (size) AMFA supporter". You wanted to be a union official, you got elected at a line station as a secretary, then lost that job due to your lack of integrity, and desire to undermine a real union. Speak of Connell all you want, he has more backbone than you have waistline, he has more unionism in his bones than you have poundage. He, and others, stay true blue as a unionist, unlike yourself.

TWU supporters send out private E-mails dissassociating themselves from you. And Bob, just who am I today? C'mon , I know you think you know, but do you really? From your post I surmise you think this is Connell, good try, but no cigar. Throw another name out there and try for a free happy meal. Please do not give Steve credit for my postings, at least not all of them anyhow. You see, Johnny Lunchbox stands for all us working union members desiring to stay in a union. Some days it's Steve, somedays it's a number of people, neat idea huh? That ought to really make Ken upset. Imagine, sharing a moniker!, the nerve.

 

[twuer]

AMFA Constitution PREAMBLE

The aim of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association is to:

• PROMOTE and protect the interests of our membership

• Elevate the moral, intellectual and social conditions of ALL Aircraft Technicians and Airline Support Personnel in the aviation community


… we pledge ourselves to uphold the basic doctrines of craft unionism, to recognize individual seniority rights of members, and to protect and elevate our profession through a strong unification of Aircraft Technicians and Airline Support Personnel within an independent, skilled craft association.

Article I, Section 3

Membership in the Association:

(A) AIRLINE TECHNICIAN DIVISION – shall include all licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who work directly on aircraft and/or components of a certificated air carrier and are responsible for the airworthiness or workmanship of the aircraft and/or its components. This includes maintenance support technicians and related personnel as defined by the National Mediation Board’s determination of the Mechanic and Related Craft and Class.

AIRLINE TECHNICIAN DIVISION – shall include all licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who work directly on aircraft and/or components of a certificated air carrier and are responsible for the airworthiness or workmanship of the aircraft and/or its components. This includes maintenance support technicians and related personnel as defined by the National Mediation Board’s determination of the Mechanic and Related Craft and Class.

. . .the very folks that amfa is desparately trying to distance and break away from!!! Anybody see a problem with this??? Amfa will not be a "craft" union made up soley of mechanics because the law will not allow it.

That amfa preamble is a joke!! What, did Seham write that one????

 

[Bob Owens]

TWU supporters send out private E-mails dissassociating themselves from you. C'mon , I know you think you know, but do you really? From your post I surmise you think this is Connell, good try, but no cigar. Throw another name out there and try for a free happy meal. Please do not give Steve credit for my postings, at least not all of them anyhow. You see, Johnny Lunchbox stands for all us working union members desiring to stay in a union. Some days it's Steve, somedays it's a number of people, neat idea huh? That ought to really make Ken upset. Imagine, sharing a moniker!, the nerve.

Where does your anger generate from Bob?

Anger? I'm not the one with the bat and the crazy look in his eyes.

Does a management job evade you Bob?

No. Not at all. I have no desire to go into management.

Perhaps if you'd bone up, no pun intended, on your people skills, and attempt to resolve your inner battles then and only then Bob apply, perhaps they'll forget what a phony you are and give you a shot.

Yes and we can get a good feeling as to your people skills from your posts.

You need to set yourself an attainable goal, other than one as official "biggest (size) AMFA supporter". You wanted to be a union official, you got elected at a line station as a secretary, then lost that job due to your lack of integrity, and desire to undermine a real union. Speak of Connell all you want, he has more backbone than you have waistline, he has more unionism in his bones than you have poundage. He, and others, stay true blue as a unionist, unlike yourself.

Are you true blue unionists before, during or after your unsuccessful jaunt into management?

And Bob, just who am I today?

Well if you dont know then you really have a problem.

 

[UAL_TECH]

I think that both sides think the membership is stupid and cannot see through the games, I think people can be slow to see through BS but eventually they do, maybe it is time to realize that there will not be a debate and that we should just get ready to vote on whatever Union that we think will serve us the best, I think most of us allready know who we are going to vote for anyway, for sure the guys who come to this board do.

I set out as an AMFA organizer with the goal of having a vote on AMFA vs TWU and we will soon know if that goal was accomplished as I believe it has been, I believe that AMFA is better for my Craft and Class but ultimatley I am content to let the members of my Craft and Class decide, I will of course be voting for AMFA contrary to what you may hear from Dave ( who knows more about what I am thinking than me <_< ) I will support whoever wins the election in an effort to get a decent contract by January 2009 to me it seems like the only smart thing to do, but everyone must make up their own minds on that.

I also voted against the concession and would do it again and again if I could, there are people who would say why Gamble with your job, well I would say to them that everytime we vote to go on strike we are in fact voting to Gamble with our jobs in an effort to get a decent contract, in our business you have to Gamble or you will be stuck with substandard wages and benefits the company is not out to do anyone any favors.
As far as jobs being lost that is due to Airlines needing less people not due to Unions, all the Unions have lost jobs, Company's will only keep the people that they need that is what they have to do to stay in business.

I will say one thing no matter what Union wins this Election AMFA or the TWU when it comes time to vote for local officers, I would suggest being very picky as these guys will be the ones negotiating your next contract, Good intelligent respectable officers are what makes the difference between a good contract and a bad contract. Something for us all to think about.

Raptor,

Good honest post!!!

Take Care and good fortune to you and yours!!!

UAL_TECH

 

[UAL_TECH]

I think that both sides think the membership is stupid and cannot see through the games, I think people can be slow to see through BS but eventually they do, maybe it is time to realize that there will not be a debate and that we should just get ready to vote on whatever Union that we think will serve us the best, I think most of us allready know who we are going to vote for anyway, for sure the guys who come to this board do.

I set out as an AMFA organizer with the goal of having a vote on AMFA vs TWU and we will soon know if that goal was accomplished as I believe it has been, I believe that AMFA is better for my Craft and Class but ultimatley I am content to let the members of my Craft and Class decide, I will of course be voting for AMFA contrary to what you may hear from Dave ( who knows more about what I am thinking than me <_< ) I will support whoever wins the election in an effort to get a decent contract by January 2009 to me it seems like the only smart thing to do, but everyone must make up their own minds on that.

I also voted against the concession and would do it again and again if I could, there are people who would say why Gamble with your job, well I would say to them that everytime we vote to go on strike we are in fact voting to Gamble with our jobs in an effort to get a decent contract, in our business you have to Gamble or you will be stuck with substandard wages and benefits the company is not out to do anyone any favors.
As far as jobs being lost that is due to Airlines needing less people not due to Unions, all the Unions have lost jobs, Company's will only keep the people that they need that is what they have to do to stay in business.

I will say one thing no matter what Union wins this Election AMFA or the TWU when it comes time to vote for local officers, I would suggest being very picky as these guys will be the ones negotiating your next contract, Good intelligent respectable officers are what makes the difference between a good contract and a bad contract. Something for us all to think about.

I guess you're a better union man than I Raptor, for I will never support AMFA, at AA or anywhere else, I ,as you, want what is best for my profession, and as I've witnessed through AMFA's history, AMFA is not what is best. That is simply my opinion formulated without Kool-aid.

JohnnyLunchBox,

So you as a self proposed 'unionist' will not support the 'union' that may be voted in by your Brothers and Sisters?

Will you 'scab' AMFA because you will not support your 'Union'?

Will you 'self justify' your choice because your mentality does not recognize one union from another?

Does a 'Union' have to be AFL-CIO affiliated to be a Union?

??? UT

 

[Fridays are Free]

31 NMB 12 page 53

DISCUSSION

I. Proper Craft or Class

In determining the proper craft or class for a group of employees, the Board considers a number of factors. These factors include functional integration, work classifications, terms and conditions of employment, and work-related community of interest. United Parcel Serv. Co., 30 NMB 84 (2002); Frontier Airlines, Inc., 29 NMB 28 (2001); United Airlines, Inc., 28 NMB 533 (2001); US Airways, Inc., 28 NMB 104 (2000).

It is particularly important that the employees share a work-related community of interest. Continental Airlines, Inc./Continental Express, Inc., 26 NMB 143 (1999); LSG Lufthansa Servs., Inc., 25 NMB 96 (1997); Airborne Express, Inc., 9 NMB 115 (1981). The Board makes craft or class determinations on a case by case basis, relying upon Board policy and precedent. US Airways, above; USAir, 15 NMB 369 (1988); Simmons Airlines, 15 NMB 124 (1988).

The Board has examined the proper scope of the craft or class of Mechanics and Related Employees in numerous decisions. United Parcel Serv. Co., above; US Airways, Inc., above; United Parcel Serv. Co., 27 NMB 3 (1999); Allegheny Airlines, Inc., 26 NMB 487 (1999). In United Airlines, Inc., 6 NMB 134 (1977), the Board, quoting National Airlines, Inc., 1 NMB 423, 428-29 (1947), described the composition of the Mechanics and Related Employees, in part, as follows:

A. Mechanics who perform maintenance work on aircraft, engine, radio or accessory equipment.

B. Ground service personnel who perform work generally described as follows: Washing and cleaning airplane, engine and accessory parts in overhaul shops; fueling of aircraft and ground equipment; maintenance of ground and ramp equipment; maintenance of buildings, hangars and related equipment; cleaning and maintaining the interior and exterior of aircraft, servicing and control of cabin service equipment, air conditioning of aircraft, cleaning of airport hangars, buildings, hangar and ramp equipment.

C. Plant maintenance personnel including employees who perform work consisting of repairs, alterations, additions to and maintenance of buildings, hangars, and the repair, maintenance and operation of related equipment including automatic equipment.

“The related employees . . . while of different skill levels from the mechanics, nonetheless are closely related to them in that they are engaged in a common function – the maintenance function. . . .â€￾ Eastern Air Lines, Inc., 4 NMB 54, 63 (1965) (emphasis added). It is this “functionalâ€￾ connection between mechanic classifications and those employees performing related maintenance operations that has historically formed a basis for their identity as a single craft or class. Id. See also Federal Express Corp., 20 NMB 360 (1993).

 

[High Speed Steel]

AMFA Constitution PREAMBLE

The aim of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association is to:

• PROMOTE and protect the interests of our membership

• Elevate the moral, intellectual and social conditions of ALL Aircraft Technicians and Airline Support Personnel in the aviation community


… we pledge ourselves to uphold the basic doctrines of craft unionism, to recognize individual seniority rights of members, and to protect and elevate our profession through a strong unification of Aircraft Technicians and Airline Support Personnel within an independent, skilled craft association.

Article I, Section 3

Membership in the Association:

(A) AIRLINE TECHNICIAN DIVISION – shall include all licensed and unlicensed maintenance personnel who work directly on aircraft and/or components of a certificated air carrier and are responsible for the airworthiness or workmanship of the aircraft and/or its components. This includes maintenance support technicians and related personnel as defined by the National Mediation Board’s determination of the Mechanic and Related Craft and Class.

Fridays are Free, With the manner of AMFA's determination of the the aviation community under their Constitution, you may need to evaluate your seniority date.....! With AMFA as your bargaining agent you may very well have Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays free as well....!

-----------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Johnny Lunchbox]

I guess you're a better union man than I Raptor, for I will never support AMFA, at AA or anywhere else, I ,as you, want what is best for my profession, and as I've witnessed through AMFA's history, AMFA is not what is best. That is simply my opinion formulated without Kool-aid.

JohnnyLunchBox,

So you as a self proposed 'unionist' will not support the 'union' that may be voted in by your Brothers and Sisters?

Will you 'scab' AMFA because you will not support your 'Union'?

Will you 'self justify' your choice because your mentality does not recognize one union from another?

Does a 'Union' have to be AFL-CIO affiliated to be a Union?

??? UT

I will not be a scab in my non support of AMFA, unless of course, you are suggesting that all AMFA supporters and organizers are themselves scabs in their non support of the TWU. To me, AMFA is not, and will never be a union, they represent everything a union is not. Division does not equal unity.