Dear Mollie and Teddy

[pitguy]

[DIV][FONT size=4][EM]Teddy,[BR]You can come and represent the Mechanics any day. Allot of us have heard what you have had to say and see that your heart is truly in the right place and would be grateful to be lead by an honest person. I agree with you. Even if it means shutting it all down. There is nothing wrong with not being bought off like other union reps appear to be. Right or wrong you have spunk.[/EM][/FONT][/DIV]

 

[delldude]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/29/2002 8:24:23 PM B707B wrote:
[P]People in Teddy's corner were all raised in the shadows of the great Pittsburgh steel mills which their fathers unions effectively closed down. Nothing but empty buildings along the river now but they still claim victory.[BR]You would hope that this kind of stupidity would skip a generation but we continue to be threatened and affected buy this warped mentality. Our childrens security depends on us defeating these people with a solid yes vote.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]b707b-you sound as antiquated as those old steel mills.an era bygone in aviations past,707b

 

[delldude]

[H4] [EM]dave said at the road show if yall remember....he had some phenominal problems to overcome.the first was pay cuts....he stated there were other problems to be dealt with down the road .we gave them pay cuts and they would have shown a profit if they didn't take a [BR]pretax bk charge last quarter.then he comes for work rules and benefits.....all the while working on restructuring leases and the like with vendors.everyone wonders where 'ol dave's been?i'd say hes been real busy....now the next mountain seems to be straightening out the pension debacle.put all these things in order and perspective,id say he seems to be accomplishing what he told us in the first place.if he wanted to send us down the river,why wait all this time?i think we've almost got things to a managable point.i know lots have sacrificed and lots won't come back,but maybe this spring we can start to turn around,slowly i'm sure. do you remember how you eat an elephant?[BR][/EM]one bite at a time....[/H4]

 

[cavalier]

[SPAN class=BodyFont]
[DIV][EM]Teddy,[BR]You can come and represent the Mechanics any day. Allot of us have heard what you have has to say and see that your heart is truly in the right place and would be grateful to be lead by an honest person. I agree with you. Even if it means shutting it all down. There is nothing wrong with not being bought off like other union reps appear to be. Right or wrong you have spunk.[BR][/EM][/DIV]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[BR][FONT size=3]
[P][BR]"Right or wrong you have spunk!" I wouldn't want that kind of mentality anywhere near the mechanics, or any labor group, it's poison. [BR][BR]I remember a PIXBURGH UNION guy when Dravo was having big problems and needed labor's help saying, SHUT IT DOWN. They did, he died at 50 years of age and broke, gee he sure won. [BR][BR]I read, "It's all managements fault" Ok, so? Does that mean pull the plug and let it sink, duh.[BR][BR]Whine, snivel, cry, scream, point fingers is what some people are doing here, that is ALL there are doing. I challenge these people to come up with a real solution other than what is being put forth by Dave & Dave. People read these boards, so show us how bright you are and explain what steps need to be taken to make U a viable entity. [BR][BR]To the mentality out there saying, “Shut It Down“, your posts are being disregarded as the frivolous nonsense that they are. [BR][/P][FONT size=4]
[P] [/P][/FONT][BR] [BR][/FONT][/SPAN]

 

[mrplanes]

Cav, 707, and all intelligent posters/lurkers:

There will always be the belligerent and chest thumping union leaders. There always have been. They think they have control or at least some major input into what a company can or can't do. They are and should be allowed to vent here and wherever they choose. Poli and Charlie Bryan would be proud. While they may have truth and justice on their side what they don't have is a clear vision of reality. They are idealists and dreamers. And we need them. They are similar to the liberal lawmakers who think throwing money at inner city schools will solve all that is wrong there. It makes them feel good but does absolutely nothing to address the problem.

Take heart in knowing that the followers of these unrealistic idealists are few and far between. In our situation, we have no leverage. That leverage rests with Dave and Dave. These vocal "leaders" do not accept this premise. They feel we are being bluffed. My Dad felt the same way 30 years ago here in Youngstown, Ohio. The area still hasn't recovered from that company bluff. Nor does my Dad think the unions had anything to do with the demise of the steel industry. It was ALL the company's fault. As I and my fellow workers slept 5 of 8 hours on midnight shift. And management kept putting off getting the new furnaces. There was plenty of blame to go around.

The agreements will pass. Because common sense and intelligence will win over emotional idealism. Capitalism is not fair. But capitalism will allow us to attempt to get back what has been given up IF the company survives and prospers. When that happens we will have some leverage. Until then we are at the mercy of Dave, Dave and the ATSB. While that doesn't make our idealist and unrealistic friends happpy, it remains a fact.

 

[B707B]

Delldude- Ramps all over the world are graced with those great planes. The KC135 (707b) is a great, reliable aircraft, hardly an antique.

 

[MrAeroMan]

[FONT face="Times New Roman"]If you truly believe the management of this airline is the true and only cause of todays situation you need someone to pull your head out of the sand or wherever you've had it for the past several years.[BR]While management played a role it didn't do so without some serious help from the unions. It all started back at merger time with Uncle Ed. He was so far in over his head the only thing he could do was say yes to all the ridiculous requests that came his way from unions. He caved on every issue with the pilots, mechanics and ramp workers and the result was the silly work rules that exist on the property today. Who thought up of the thirty minute wash up time mechanics get before they go home? You don't think that comes without a cost?[BR]He was followed by Schofield who had no business running an airline. Another one in way over his head but he too followed Uncle Ed and was scared of the unions. When he did try to get some relief he failed miserably and retired to his estate (farm) near Charleston.[BR]Then the dynamic duo entered and all they did was pretty up the joint to sell and leave them with nothing but time to count their millions. It probably would've worked had it not been for 9/11.[BR]Now you've got Dave. Dave is the guy you've needed all along. He appears to be straightforward and honest. At least he's not sugarcoating the tough issues. He's man enough to tell you guys you've got to change or be left behind. Now you've got members calling to shut it down? How ignorant is that? [BR]It sucks the industry has changed so much but had the unions and their leadership had some foresight they may have seen the trends in the industry developing and could've done something to help better position the company. Believe me, the management of this airline has made some serious mistakes and some of those mistakes surely helped lead US to this point but they didn't get there alone. There is plenty of blame to go around.[BR][BR]Remember....when pointing the finger of blame at another you have three fingers pointing back at you.[/FONT]

 

[mbmbbost]

Over many years and hundreds of US flights I've seen a small, but significant minority of flight attendants doing a heroic job of helping to bring US to the miserable situation it's in now..being as minimally productive as they could get away with, treating customers as indifferently as they felt inclined. I've seen it, and heard about it from their co-workers, most of whom are the kind that keep me flying US. I assume the lazy were protected to some degree by their union. In most any other environment they'd be history. I only bring up this to point out that there's plenty of blame to go around.

 

[lakeguy267]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/30/2002 829 AM MrAeroMan wrote:
[P][FONT face='"Times' New Roman"]If you truly believe the management of this airline is the true and only cause of todays situation you need someone to pull your head out of the sand or wherever you've had it for the past several years.[BR]While management played a role it didn't do so without some serious help from the unions. It all started back at merger time with Uncle Ed. He was so far in over his head the only thing he could do was say yes to all the ridiculous requests that came his way from unions. He caved on every issue with the pilots, mechanics and ramp workers and the result was the silly work rules that exist on the property today. Who thought up of the thirty minute wash up time mechanics get before they go home? You don't think that comes without a cost?[BR]He was followed by Schofield who had no business running an airline. Another one in way over his head but he too followed Uncle Ed and was scared of the unions. When he did try to get some relief he failed miserably and retired to his estate (farm) near Charleston.[BR]Then the dynamic duo entered and all they did was pretty up the joint to sell and leave them with nothing but time to count their millions. It probably would've worked had it not been for 9/11.[BR]Now you've got Dave. Dave is the guy you've needed all along. He appears to be straightforward and honest. At least he's not sugarcoating the tough issues. He's man enough to tell you guys you've got to change or be left behind. Now you've got members calling to shut it down? How ignorant is that? [BR]It sucks the industry has changed so much but had the unions and their leadership had some foresight they may have seen the trends in the industry developing and could've done something to help better position the company. Believe me, the management of this airline has made some serious mistakes and some of those mistakes surely helped lead US to this point but they didn't get there alone. There is plenty of blame to go around.[BR][BR]Remember....when pointing the finger of blame at another you have three fingers pointing back at you.[/FONT][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]You really should investigate what you post, mechanics and related have NEVER EVER had a 30 minute washup time, it is five minutes[/P]

 

[delldude]

yes,i agree but for the most part their days have come and gone for hauling pax.please be reminded as to the steel mills in pgh...like your 707's...they still are here,much like the airline industry;relegated to a much smaller role than their past, though.

 

[delldude]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/30/2002 829 AM MrAeroMan wrote:
[P][FONT face='"Times' New Roman"]If you truly believe the management of this airline is the true and only cause of todays situation you need someone to pull your head out of the sand or wherever you've had it for the past several years.[BR]While management played a role it didn't do so without some serious help from the unions. It all started back at merger time with Uncle Ed. He was so far in over his head the only thing he could do was say yes to all the ridiculous requests that came his way from unions. He caved on every issue with the pilots, mechanics and ramp workers and the result was the silly work rules that exist on the property today. Who thought up of the thirty minute wash up time mechanics get before they go home? You don't think that comes without a cost?[BR]He was followed by Schofield who had no business running an airline. Another one in way over his head but he too followed Uncle Ed and was scared of the unions. When he did try to get some relief he failed miserably and retired to his estate (farm) near Charleston.[BR]Then the dynamic duo entered and all they did was pretty up the joint to sell and leave them with nothing but time to count their millions. It probably would've worked had it not been for 9/11.[BR]Now you've got Dave. Dave is the guy you've needed all along. He appears to be straightforward and honest. At least he's not sugarcoating the tough issues. He's man enough to tell you guys you've got to change or be left behind. Now you've got members calling to shut it down? How ignorant is that? [BR]It sucks the industry has changed so much but had the unions and their leadership had some foresight they may have seen the trends in the industry developing and could've done something to help better position the company. Believe me, the management of this airline has made some serious mistakes and some of those mistakes surely helped lead US to this point but they didn't get there alone. There is plenty of blame to go around.[BR][BR]Remember....when pointing the finger of blame at another you have three fingers pointing back at you.[/FONT][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P][STRONG]you must be reading my mind.[/STRONG]

 

[cavalier]

Sound familiar?? It should, you are in the same boat now. No matter how you slice it the free market is rendering your airline a relic unless the pay, benefit structure can be brought into alignment with the fares people are willing to pay, it's just that simple. It sucks but it's not a mystery![BR][BR]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[BR][BR][FONT size=3]
[P]Totally in agreement Bob---GOOD POST[BR][BR]Some younger people may not remember like we do, hence the hard nose attitudes of some. [BR][BR]I never worked in the mills, they were on their way out just when I was going into the salt mines. I remember going to US Steel Home Stead Works, circa 1971 to fill out an application for a job. There were probably 100 people in line, they were employees signing up for what was called sub pay. Meaning, they not only received their unemployment benefits, but also were receiving weekly sub pay checks so they were earning NO less unemployed than working full time! So yes Bob, what you are saying is very true indeed about inefficiencies back then and even now, but not quite to that extent today. Everywhere I worked around the Pittsburgh area before working for U, there were former steel workers all saying how easy they had it and how little they did and made BIG money. Those days are history, and the exact same thing is occurring in the airline industry these days. Anyone who can't see it is blind, in denial, or just too young to remember. It's what we folks call capitalism, best system on the planet but no way “perfectâ€￾ and “fairâ€￾ because this is not socialism, thank GOD. [/P]
[P][FONT size=2][/FONT][BR][/FONT] [/P]

 

[MrAeroMan]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/30/2002 10:31:06 AM lakeguy267 wrote:
[P][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/30/2002 829 AM MrAeroMan wrote: [BR][BR][FONT face='"Times' New Roman"]If you truly believe the management of this airline is the true and only cause of todays situation you need someone to pull your head out of the sand or wherever you've had it for the past several years.[BR]While management played a role it didn't do so without some serious help from the unions. It all started back at merger time with Uncle Ed. He was so far in over his head the only thing he could do was say yes to all the ridiculous requests that came his way from unions. He caved on every issue with the pilots, mechanics and ramp workers and the result was the silly work rules that exist on the property today. Who thought up of the thirty minute wash up time mechanics get before they go home? You don't think that comes without a cost?[BR]He was followed by Schofield who had no business running an airline. Another one in way over his head but he too followed Uncle Ed and was scared of the unions. When he did try to get some relief he failed miserably and retired to his estate (farm) near Charleston.[BR]Then the dynamic duo entered and all they did was pretty up the joint to sell and leave them with nothing but time to count their millions. It probably would've worked had it not been for 9/11.[BR]Now you've got Dave. Dave is the guy you've needed all along. He appears to be straightforward and honest. At least he's not sugarcoating the tough issues. He's man enough to tell you guys you've got to change or be left behind. Now you've got members calling to shut it down? How ignorant is that? [BR]It sucks the industry has changed so much but had the unions and their leadership had some foresight they may have seen the trends in the industry developing and could've done something to help better position the company. Believe me, the management of this airline has made some serious mistakes and some of those mistakes surely helped lead US to this point but they didn't get there alone. There is plenty of blame to go around.[BR][BR]Remember....when pointing the finger of blame at another you have three fingers pointing back at you.[/FONT]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]You really should investigate what you post, mechanics and related have NEVER EVER had a 30 minute washup time, it is five minutes
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]That info came from friends I have as mechanics. I guess they read the language differently than you. I never said related had a wash up time but you've proven my point. The contract says five minutes yet everyone takes thirty. Why have a wash up time at all? It's silly, wasteful and makes it harder for U to be cost competitive. Welcome to the new millenium.[/P]

 

[MrAeroMan]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/30/2002 251 PM PineyBob wrote:
[P][BR]Sound familiar?? It should, you are in the same boat now. No matter how you slice it the free market is rendering your airline a relic unless the pay, benefit structure can be brought into alignment with the fares people are willing to pay, it's just that simple. It sucks but it's not a mystery![/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]You put it extremely well Bob. The study of economics is one where you can't let your feelings get hurt. Economics is cold and hard hence the saying, "The cold and hard realities of economics".[BR]It's not the companies fault any more than it is the unions fault but I still say they both contributed equally to the situation at hand now. A little vision goes a long way and both sides had blinders on for years. [/P]

 

[USAirBoyA330]

As an AFA member that is represented by Mollie....I would ask that Mollie not be put in the same category as Teddy. From my unfortunate dealing with Ms. Teddy Xidas she is completely certifiable. Mollie is very bright and has a lot of good ideas however she sometimes expresses them in colorful ways. I could say MUCH more but I won't. I was in the PIT crew room a few days ago and almost every F/A there agreed that Teddy was in LA LA LAND and I don't believe she represents anywhere near the majority in PIT. It's beyond me as to why she is still in office.
She needs to crawl down off the cross...we need the wood.