Daddy, why do you work two jobs?

[Bill]

Typical Stooge.

No legitimate debate

Just Cartoons and Slogans, and you call that "Unionism". What a laugh!

Yep, you're right Informer. (you're always right though aren't you???) Liking and inquiring about a cartoon makes me a stooge. You're brilliant!

Geez, lighten up dude. God bless your family and friends. I bet you're a hoot at parties. They must love to see you coming.

 

[Bagbelt]

Each local should be able to negotiate pay scales according to the prevailing wage at that station/area. $30 an hour in DFW/TULE is outstanding, in JFK/LGA/BOS/PHL/DCA/LAX/SFO/SAN a second job or wife working full time is required to swing that $3000 a month mortgage on the dump you can buy for $450-500k. I know most jobs pay less- but the reason people work midnights and die ten years early from constant exposure to noise and chemicals was because you were all set working here. I can only speak for title 2, but we can no longer fill job openings with experienced people, we are becoming a large training center. Look at aa careers- it's mostly auto/fac jobs that go unfilled for months.

 

[MCI transplant]

Each local should be able to negotiate pay scales according to the prevailing wage at that station/area. $30 an hour in DFW/TULE is outstanding, in JFK/LGA/BOS/PHL/DCA/LAX/SFO/SAN a second job or wife working full time is required to swing that $3000 a month mortgage on the dump you can buy for $450-500k. I know most jobs pay less- but the reason people work midnights and die ten years early from constant exposure to noise and chemicals was because you were all set working here. I can only speak for title 2, but we can no longer fill job openings with experienced people, we are becoming a large training center. Look at aa careers- it's mostly auto/fac jobs that go unfilled for months.

<_< -----Hey Bagbelt! Let's hope Bush doesn't read your post, or we'll have those Southerners taking all those jobs! You know, the ones that work the jobs Americans don't want to do!!!! :angry: :down:

 

[Bagbelt]

That was not meant as an insult to anyone, it's just got to the point that qualified people are no longer considering the airlines as a desirable job oppurtunity and the ones that are here are working other jobs on the side rendering them far less able to give a full days effort to get the job done. Never mind the effort required to train people with little or no experience.

 

[TWU informer]

That was not meant as an insult to anyone, it's just got to the point that qualified people are no longer considering the airlines as a desirable job oppurtunity and the ones that are here are working other jobs on the side rendering them far less able to give a full days effort to get the job done. Never mind the effort required to train people with little or no experience.

I think that I have heard this issue before.

Oh yeah, I remember where and when I heard about this, it was March 20th, 2001 in Philly.

READ THIS TRANSCRIPT BEGIN READING @ Page #5

PEB transcript day 2 - 3-20-01 - AMFA NWA - TESTIMONY OF BRIAN FINNEGAN of PAMA

I think everything Mr. Finnegan predicted is coming true or soon will be fullfilled.

 

[Bob Owens]

Not really, Lay is dead and Koslowski and Skilling are both going to jail. I'm guessing its hard to get a job while serving time.

Yea but the reason they are going to Jail is because they screwed the stockholders, not the workers. So as long as you only screw the workers you are safe, unless of course one of them goes postal.

Hey, you want a COLA, negotiate for one. Isn't that why you pay dues? To have a contract which represents the actual needs of the members?

We would love to, but unfortunately we dont have a union, instead we have an organization that presents itself as a union while in fact its being funded by the company.

Management gets to negotiate these when they transfer from low-cost to high-cost areas.

So don't blame the company because someone decided to negotiate market rate adjustments away.

The company is to blame because they engage in corrupt practices by bribing the TWU. The fact is that those who pay bribes are guilty as well as those who accept them.

 

[Bob Owens]

Each local should be able to negotiate pay scales according to the prevailing wage at that station/area. $30 an hour in DFW/TULE is outstanding, in JFK/LGA/BOS/PHL/DCA/LAX/SFO/SAN a second job or wife working full time is required to swing that $3000 a month mortgage on the dump you can buy for $450-500k. I know most jobs pay less- but the reason people work midnights and die ten years early from constant exposure to noise and chemicals was because you were all set working here. I can only speak for title 2, but we can no longer fill job openings with experienced people, we are becoming a large training center. Look at aa careers- it's mostly auto/fac jobs that go unfilled for months.

Actually Local 562 was presented with a motion to negotiate seperately from Overhaul(Tulsa and MCI being the source of contention, we have no gripes against AFW). Tulsa (in a RTW state of course) has screwed over the line for years. They negotiated away work from the line and even tailored the concessions to impact the line more than overhaul. Line mechanics lost a lot more money than overhaul due to the elimination of Holiday pay and shift differential. As far as pay goes AA line mechanics are on the lower end of unionized line mechanics(way, way behind IBT represented UPS and AMFA represented SWA) but AA overhaul is the highest paid in the country. The message to the line from Tulsa is clear, "You and your family must do without so we can have more than is needed". "We have the majority so you dont count, just keep getting those planes out so AA can pay us enough to continue with our lavish lifestyles at your expense."

The fact is that we would be better off negotiating as a station (all Title groups in a station) than we are negotiating as title groups under the divisive undemocratic pro-company TWU structure where those who live in an anti-union low cost area of the country have the most votes. The TWU keeps members isolated from each other so those of us in the high cost areas cant even appeal to their humanity.

As the TWU gives lip service to the ideals of unionism they put in place conditions that cause animosity between the members. People who live in high cost areas really have no choice but to believe that their low cost area "brothers" have nothing but hatred for them and their families. There isnt even an attempt to conceal the "I Got Mine" syndrome of places like Tulsa. Years ago I witnessed a heated discussion between Gary Yingst and the Treasurer of ORDs local at the Meany Center that centered around this same issue. Gary started ranting that the idea of differing pay rates to compensate for regional cost differences was "antiunion". (Despite the fact that he defended "Flex starting rates" because it helps the company) In fact he was ranting loudly "You are anti-union, you are antiunion". Now this moron is in charge of the ATD!!!

The fact is people we are screwed as long as we have people like Yingst(who is as dumb as they come), Little (from AA management and a proven liar) and Gless (someone who as an International rep of an Industrial union could not define what an Industrial union is) running the union. How could you expect a union to run well when the top leaders not only are only in it for the money but they havent a clue as to what unionism is all about?(When Sonny Hall retired as President of the TWU he wrote about what a lousy worker he was and the fact that the TWU kept him on the job-he claimed thats what unionisism is all about. Keeping lousy workers on the job!? No wonder unions have a bad reputation! These "leaders" believe that unions are about keeping bad workers on the job instead of winning good wages and better conditions for good workers! Sure they memorize the slogans and the chants but they know nothing, nor do they care, about how those slogans came about and what they meant.Until we get rid of them we are doomed.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---"Tulsa and MCI being the source of contention" Now you lump MCI up with Tulsa? Well excuse us for not rolling over to your tune!!! We both want the same thing! The demise of the TWU! But as long as we're "outside the system," we will approach this goal in our own way! And so there's no confusion as to what I mean by "outside the system", I'll define it! Constraints on where our Seniority will take us, and lack of system job protection once we get there!!! I'm not pointing fingers! I'm just stating fact !!!

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ---"Tulsa and MCI being the source of contention" Now you lump MCI up with Tulsa?

The fact remains, exclude MCI and the concessions would have been voted down. In 2003 we had more No votes out of Tulsa than MCI.

Well excuse us for not rolling over to your tune!!! We both want the same thing! The demise of the TWU! But as long as we're "outside the system," we will approach this goal in our own way! And so there's no confusion as to what I mean by "outside the system", I'll define it! Constraints on where our Seniority will take us, and lack of system job protection once we get there!!! I'm not pointing fingers! I'm just stating fact !!!

Maybe thats how you feel but to those guys in the basement behind the door with the TWU sticker on it, and all those who voted "Yes" all that is needed is for someone to say "Booh" and they fall right in line, inside the system and thankful to be there, even though they are at the back of the line.

As I told them back in 2003 by voting yes they gave AA/TWU the ability to dump all the TWA guys they wanted to. You all had 25% in NY, therefore as long as they had anyone beat in NY with March 1 2001 seniority they were protected by the clause in the contract stating that layoffs were done by seniority. But when they rolled system protection back three years it exposed guys with twelve years or less from TWA. They did it to themselves.

So claim what you want, as far as the desire to out the TWU where are the cards? The last AMFA drive started in Tulsa, and it was MCI that helped keep the TWU on the property, St Louis on the other hand turned in a lot of cards so its not a TWA vs AA thing.

From everything we see coming out of MCI they are no different than Tulsa, if anything worse.

 

[MCI transplant]

The fact remains, exclude MCI and the concessions would have been voted down. In 2003 we had more No votes out of Tulsa than MCI.
Maybe thats how you feel but to those guys in the basement behind the door with the TWU sticker on it, and all those who voted "Yes" all that is needed is for someone to say "Booh" and they fall right in line, inside the system and thankful to be there, even though they are at the back of the line.

As I told them back in 2003 by voting yes they gave AA/TWU the ability to dump all the TWA guys they wanted to. You all had 25% in NY, therefore as long as they had anyone beat in NY with March 1 2001 seniority they were protected by the clause in the contract stating that layoffs were done by seniority. But when they rolled system protection back three years it exposed guys with twelve years or less from TWA. They did it to themselves.

So claim what you want, as far as the desire to out the TWU where are the cards? The last AMFA drive started in Tulsa, and it was MCI that helped keep the TWU on the property, St Louis on the other hand turned in a lot of cards so its not a TWA vs AA thing.

From everything we see coming out of MCI they are no different than Tulsa, if anything worse.

<_< Bob--- Your preaching to the choir! I voted no because it was a peace of crap! But believe it or not, not everyone here wants to move to New York City! Or put their families through the expense or disruption of their lives, just to maintaine your life style! Believe it or not, two jobs has been common place around here for quit a few years! So when you come to us and cry about it, you'll just be handed a crying towel, nothing more!!! Believe me Bob, I know how you feel! But the problem is these people can't see much difference between the TWU, and the AMFA! In their eyes the same people that voted to staple them are the same people that are pushing for change! Remember these are hard headed, independent people! They don't forget! What your going to have to do is convince them that the AMFA will try to put us "ALL" on an equal footing! I'm not saying restore what you can't! But work toward an equal system of job protection! Although I feel the whole "protection" thing will soon be a thimg of the past! The exTWAers have gone to the street in your place for too long! We have people on the street with over twenty years, and a few "nAAtives" here that are "protected", with less, that are still working! Nice guys, but still not right! Since the buy out, and 9/11, over 1,500 exTWA AMT's have lost their jobs!

 

[AMFAMAN]

But the problem is these people can't see much difference between the TWU, and the AMFA! In their eyes the same people that voted to staple them are the same people that are pushing for change!

The ignorance level must be pretty high in MCI. These are the same guys who probaly didn't sign a card in the TWA 1999 AMFA drive that if won by the AMFA would have resulted in the TWU being booted during the single carrier ruling and a big "who knows" as far as seniority. So to date, they shot themselves in the foot in 1999, which hurt them in 2001, and refused to sign a card in 2003, which would help unite M&R across all airlines, voted in the 2003 concessions big time, and remain b*tching about the work and the union without doing a darn thing to help themselves. Shall I send in Dr. Phil to help them?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Child: Daddy why do you have to work two jobs?

Daddy: Well sweetie there was this ex-TWA maintenance base
in MCI that voted yes to concessions.

Child: Why did they vote yes daddy?

Daddy: Because they don't know how to vote no.

Child: How come they don't know how to vote no?

Daddy: They have been voting yes for so long that they have
forgotten what it means to vote no.

Child: Can't they learn how to vote no?

Daddy: No,sweetie they don't want to learn anything except
how too cry and moan about how AA people didn't give
them their full seniority even though they gave it
up voluntarily.

Child: Why didn't AA people give them full seniority?

Daddy: They didn't get full seniority because they didn't
deserve full seniority and an arbitrator agreed.

Child: Why can't these TWA people abide by the decision of
of the arbitrator?

Daddy: Because sweetie, TWA people are a bunch of
crybabies when they don't get their way!

 

[Hopeful]

<_< Bob--- Your preaching to the choir! I voted no because it was a peace of crap! But believe it or not, not everyone here wants to move to New York City! Or put their families through the expense or disruption of their lives, just to maintaine your life style! Believe it or not, two jobs has been common place around here for quit a few years! So when you come to us and cry about it, you'll just be handed a crying towel, nothing more!!! Believe me Bob, I know how you feel! But the problem is these people can't see much difference between the TWU, and the AMFA! In their eyes the same people that voted to staple them are the same people that are pushing for change! Remember these are hard headed, independent people! They don't forget! What your going to have to do is convince them that the AMFA will try to put us "ALL" on an equal footing! I'm not saying restore what you can't! But work toward an equal system of job protection! Although I feel the whole "protection" thing will soon be a thimg of the past! The exTWAers have gone to the street in your place for too long! We have people on the street with over twenty years, and a few "nAAtives" here that are "protected", with less, that are still working! Nice guys, but still not right! Since the buy out, and 9/11, over 1,500 exTWA AMT's have lost their jobs!

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE TWA FOLKS JOINED AMERICAN AIRLINES ON APRIL 10, 2001!

YOU MAY HAVE PEOPLE WITH 30-40 YEARS TWA SENIORITY,,,,BUT NOT AA SENIORITY!

 

[MCI transplant]

The ignorance level must be pretty high in MCI. These are the same guys who probaly didn't sign a card in the TWA 1999 AMFA drive that if won by the AMFA would have resulted in the TWU being booted during the single carrier ruling and a big "who knows" as far as seniority. So to date, they shot themselves in the foot in 1999, which hurt them in 2001, and refused to sign a card in 2003, which would help unite M&R across all airlines, voted in the 2003 concessions big time, and remain b*tching about the work and the union without doing a darn thing to help themselves. Shall I send in Dr. Phil to help them?

<_< ---- One man's opinion! Like belly buttons, everyones got one!!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_< ---- One man's opinion! Like belly buttons, everyones got one!!!!

Which part of my fact filled post do you consider opinion.