Daddy, why do you work two jobs?

[Garfield1966]

Well actually if not for the RLA more of AA would be unionized, even our Supervisors tried to unionize.

I am speaking of the country as a whole. If not for Lenin, the USSR may not have ever come to be .... if not ... if not ... who cares. The RLA does exist and most of AA is not union. Lets keep with reality and not your fantasy.

Ford is union so obviously there were other issues.

He is in sales (like I said) so he is not union and he works for a different company.

What if he went to work for Osama Bin Laden?

Look Bob, if you do not have a rational response, it is ok not to say anything. To make a comment like above just shows how hollow your argument is.

Thats because you live in a low cost area but you benifit from the fact that AA has operations in high cost areas.

No that's just because in 20 years I have not been screwed over as much as you have. I have not always work in DFW.

Probably not to you because they feel you would run to management and get them fired.

If I had the ability to get people fired, there would be several other slackers I would go after first. Besides, we are managment so it's a non-issue thank god.

 

[Vortilon]

I am feeling a sense of deja vu as far as dues are concerned. I fail to understand why you did not see that coming. A union is a business just like AMR, Xerox, Dell… or whom ever. Their goal is to make money. Since a union does not produce any goods or services, they rely on your dues. Why on earth would a corporation voluntarily reduce their income and as a result the union leaders wages when they can sell out their constituents? I cannot help but see the irony in the fact that you are getting rake over by both management and by your respective unions. The kicker is that you are paying the union extra to hose you. Given the fact that a vast majority of the countries labor goes to work each day with out the benefit of being controlled by a union, don’t you think we would be running for union control if we felt our work conditions were so horrible? Unions have a very bad reputation in the general public. You have a reputation of being thugs, protection for mediocrity, and corrupt. I was at a Ford dealer the other day with a friend who was looking for a car. A salesman and my self got to shooting the bull and he said told me that his dad (and entire family worked for GM). The son did not like GM (had nothing against them just really wanted a Mustang, liked them all his life). His dad would not let him park the car anywhere near his house. Told the son if he had 1 hour to pack his stuff up and move out when the father found out his son worked for Ford. That is the mentality that a vast majority of the US associated with unions. Fanatics who would place friendship and family below their union association. I could not even fathom the idea of kicking my son out of the house because he chose to work for Delta or United or South West or whom ever he chose to work for.

Thread after thread after thread is railing against the unions (all of them) or management. Seems to me that after close to 20 years of service at AA, I have not been screwed over nearly as much as you folks have been. We talk about it at work all the time and I don’t think there is a person on the floor who has indicated that they would want to be represented. You folks have a huge image problem. You come across as bullies. Look at the NWA threads and the “scab-mobileâ€￾ and the “scab of the weekâ€￾ garbage. Do you think that does any good for your image? Do you think that kind of mentality would want to make anyone come to work in a union?

I will second the motion brother Hopeful pointed out. The image problem unions have is perpetuated in the media to no end. The stereotypical union worker as portrayed in the media as: pot bellied, beer guzzling, unedumacated, greedy. etc.. So the public has at the very least a subliminal negative feeling of union workers in general. On the other hand, management is portrayed as being: slick, witty, handsome, etc.. In a nutshell, there you have it. B)

 

[Hopeful]

Not that corporate America has destryoed unions in thoery, We get to watch greedy CEO's and other executives on their way to court in their $2000 suits with their $2000 an hour attorneys on TV.
Koslowski, Lay, Schilling and others who were caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Go figure, these guys ran non-union companies and still screwed the workers..

But hey, there's a market for them!

 

[Oneflyer]

Not that corporate America has destryoed unions in thoery, We get to watch greedy CEO's and other executives on their way to court in their $2000 suits with their $2000 an hour attorneys on TV.
Koslowski, Lay, Schilling and others who were caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Go figure, these guys ran non-union companies and still screwed the workers..

But hey, there's a market for them!

Not really, Lay is dead and Koslowski and Skilling are both going to jail. I'm guessing its hard to get a job while serving time.


You forgot.....

Child: Daddy, if you are so underpaid why don't you go get a different job?

Father: Because since I'm in a union everyone is paid based on their company seniority, so I am essentially tied to the company I work for.

Child: Doesn't that give the company a lot of leverage of you.

Father: Yes, but this is way its always been done, besides how else would pay be determined.

Child: In school, they tell us that the hardest working, most productive people are paid the most.

Father: That is true in every other job except for unions. In a union, only seniority matters, so there is no reason to work harder than the next guy. Its actually frowned upon to be productive because that would just take a job away from a "union brother". The whole goal is to milk as many jobs from the company as possible.

 

[Hopeful]

CHILD: You mean union workers don't work hard?

FATHER: No, they are all lazy and only care about seniority!

CHILD: Don't you care about seniority?

FATHER: Don't have to. I am in very good with my boss and all I have to do is polish his balls and putter when we play golf!

CHILD: Why do people who are in management think they are better than everyone else?

FATHER: Because they are! They stay clean, wear a suit and tie to go to work.

CHILD: Why do people in management hate unions so much?

FATHER: Because union workers are greedy, good for nothing, do nothing, underworked and overpaid? Their salaries have kept mine down!

CHILD: What do you mean?

FATHER: Well the low life union workers are the ones who clean airplanes, repair them and fly them so the rest of the elitist management types can stay clean in first class and go on vacations several times a year!


CHILD: Why do mangement people get paid better than anyone else?

FATHER: Well up until about 20 years ago, these greedy union workers made a decent wage. But us underpaid management elitists had to use the government and had to threaten these workers to take very big paycuts so us management people can get more money!

CHILD: How do you get a raise and a promotion as a non-union worker?

FATHER: Son, we will have the sex talk another day!

 

[eolesen]

Hey, you want a COLA, negotiate for one. Isn't that why you pay dues? To have a contract which represents the actual needs of the members?

Management gets to negotiate these when they transfer from low-cost to high-cost areas.

So don't blame the company because someone decided to negotiate market rate adjustments away.

 

[AMFAMAN]

To have a contract which represents the actual needs of the members?

That would be the needs of the majority, which is Tulsa. In fact they can control the negotiating process through the use of a recall vote, I have 6,000 members - you have 1,000, I win. And we all know why you can't change the union, the company won't let it happen.

 

[Oneflyer]

CHILD: You mean union workers don't work hard?

FATHER: No, the stated goal of a union is to increase union membership. You don't do that by being productive.

CHILD: Don't you care about seniority?

FATHER: Yes, experience is important, as is education and performance.


CHILD: Why do people who are in management think they are better than everyone else?

FATHER: They don't, its much easier for a union member to slander any who disagrees with them as a "management bootlicker" than to actually discuss the economics of unions.

CHILD: Why do people in management hate unions so much?

FATHER: Because union workers are unproductive and they distort the labor market. They also reward those who are the most unproductive and rarely show up for work. Union workers have been know to actually verbally and physically abuse their more productive "Brothers".

CHILD: What do you mean?

FATHER: Gluing lunchboxes shut, keying cars, slashing tires, etc......

CHILD: Why do mangement people get paid better than anyone else?

FATHER: Management workers are typically better educated and work in fields that have a tighter labor market. Also, management workers work in a free market and often choose to leave for other companies if they don't feel they are being paid well. This forces the company to pay them more to retain their services.

CHILD: How do you get a raise and a promotion as a non-union worker?

FATHER: Work hard and educate yourself.

 

[Vortilon]

CHILD: You mean union workers don't work hard?

FATHER: No, the stated goal of a union is to increase union membership. You don't do that by being productive.

CHILD: Don't you care about seniority?

FATHER: Yes, experience is important, as is education and performance.
CHILD: Why do people who are in management think they are better than everyone else?

FATHER: They don't, its much easier for a union member to slander any who disagrees with them as a "management bootlicker" than to actually discuss the economics of unions.

CHILD: Why do people in management hate unions so much?

FATHER: Because union workers are unproductive and they distort the labor market. They also reward those who are the most unproductive and rarely show up for work. Union workers have been know to actually verbally and physically abuse their more productive "Brothers".

CHILD: What do you mean?

FATHER: Gluing lunchboxes shut, keying cars, slashing tires, etc......

CHILD: Why do mangement people get paid better than anyone else?

FATHER: Management workers are typically better educated and work in fields that have a tighter labor market. Also, management workers work in a free market and often choose to leave for other companies if they don't feel they are being paid well. This forces the company to pay them more to retain their services.

CHILD: How do you get a raise and a promotion as a non-union worker?

FATHER: Work hard and educate yourself.

You know what Oneflyer, 20 something years ago - I hired on at AA not the TWU. That just came with the job - no choice! I am sure there are plenty of AMTs at AA that feel the same way. All you can do is try to change things from within. God knows, we have tried, only to be shot down by the corrupt goons at the NMB along with some TWU liars.

I know AMTs over at non union Delta, and they were paid just enough to not go union. Well, not so much any more. There are faults with every system. I have seen and heard stories of management types playing favorites over better workers union and non union. By the way, there are AMTs leaving AA in droves across the system for better paying careers. This is not to mention the hundreds who are; in fact, continuing their educations in preperation for leaving. Before you pass judgement on the group as a whole, educate yourself beyond your talking points on union issues and people.

Many of us are embarrassed to admit we belong to such a lame union. What is there to be proud of?

We have to work with the system that is in place. The fight will continue to try and improve it. Your devisive posts serve no purpose in this effort.

 

[ICEMAN]

View attachment amfa_babies_3.bmpSome people never change.

 

[Bill]

View attachment 5071Some people never change.

Nice picture...can I ask where you got it??? Looks familiar..........

 

[TWU informer]

Nice picture...can I ask where you got it??? Looks familiar..........

Typical Stooge.

No legitimate debate

Just Cartoons and Slogans, and you call that "Unionism". What a laugh!

 

[Hopeful]

CHILD: What does sex have to do with management getting promtions and raises?

FATHER: If you wish to move up in the company, you will have to do certain sex acts on your superior to prove your worth!


CHILD: Do woman make the same money as men in equal positions?


FATHER: In the corporate world, they usually have to perform more of the sex acts on their bosses than I do.


CHILD: But union members make the same regardless of their sex!


FATHER: Yes, but they are uneducated!


CHILD: Even pilots and mechanics?


FATHER: Yes they are quite ignorant and uneducated. Anyone can do what they do!


CHILD: What do you again, dad?


FATHER: I sit at a desk all day and think of how bad unions are!

 

[Hackman]

Typical Stooge.

No legitimate debate

Just Cartoons and Slogans, and you call that "Unionism". What a laugh!

Its so small you can't read it, and expanding it just gets blury. Must be another 'Nuts iam scab union classic. Maybe we can find Jimmy Do-little in his AA management tie, and match it to a slurping soundtrack.

 

[mjk]

I think 'child' is gonna need a counselor. :wacko: