Cry For Cost Cuts Grows Louder

[usfliboi]

WHat are you expecting to magically turn around???

Pitbull I gladly await the opportunity for myself and everyone to vote on anything that may come up . Theres no doubt in my mind there will be a vote. It will pass. When you take away the radicals or the non caring side you have a bunch of dedicated employees who see a bigger picture than union vs management. Thats the resaon f/as have agreed in the past to reopen and gp forward, and I see even things today as even clearer. We have our livelihoods and our company to save if at all possible, and everyone will rise to the occasion. Despite the radicals that spew hatred for dave and company , most are with 50/50 vision with no motives other than to survive and live .

 

[700UW]

So had most of the industry and doesnt look like it stops there. Reality at its best!

AA, US and UA are the only three airlines to get employee concessions.

DL, NW, HP, WN, CO, and the rest have not.

So how do you get most of the industry from three carriers?

 

[Bear96]

DL, NW, HP, WN, CO, and the rest have not.

As far as DL, since (except for the pilots) they are not unionized, they don't take concessions; they just take what management gives them.

Maybe you missed it last year when DL management just got rid of the defined benefit pensions for all non-union (as in, everyone but the pilots) employees?

Now THAT'S a concession!

And it seems like their pilots are about to take some sort of hit.

As to CO and HP, their employees already took concessions years ago in some form or another because they are pretty consistently at the low end of any measure of compensation or work rule quality.

But, to usfliboi, Where does it end? Right now U management is pointing at other airlines' labor costs and saying, "We have to undercut them or die!" So say U is somehow successful in getting its labor costs down to one of the lowest in the industry and starts to turn things around. Then other airlines will point at U with their labor groups and say, "We have to undercut them or die!" So the other airlines undercut U's labor costs. U management will then come back to you and say, "We have to undercut them or die!"

And so on....

How low can you go?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Bear96:

I agree with your comments except for one point. Once the company lowers its unit costs close to LCC levels, which it will, then I believe the bleeding will stop. Why? The hub-and-spoke system can provide a revenue premium over the LCC's due to international flying, a full service product, and amenities. In addition, the pending industry consolidation will further create economies of scale to further drive down costs.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

DL, NW, HP, WN, CO, and the rest have not.

As far as DL, since (except for the pilots) they are not unionized, they don't take concessions; they just take what management gives them.

Maybe you missed it last year when DL management just got rid of the defined benefit pensions for all non-union (as in, everyone but the pilots) employees?

Now THAT'S a concession!

And it seems like their pilots are about to take some sort of hit.

As to CO and HP, their employees already took concessions years ago in some form or another because they are pretty consistently at the low end of any measure of compensation or work rule quality.

But, to usfliboi, Where does it end? Right now U management is pointing at other airlines' labor costs and saying, "We have to undercut them or die!" So say U is somehow successful in getting its labor costs down to one of the lowest in the industry and starts to turn things around. Then other airlines will point at U with their labor groups and say, "We have to undercut them or die!" So the other airlines undercut U's labor costs. U management will then come back to you and say, "We have to undercut them or die!"

And so on....

How low can you go?

Maybe you just missed this, and by the way DL only did that for employees hired after a certain date.

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/040227/0831000472_2.html

Delta Makes $321M Pension Contribution; Sees Added $115M
Friday February 27, 8:31 am ET


ATLANTA (Dow Jones)--Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE😀AL - News) contributed $321 million to its retirement plan, less than a month after raising $325 million from the sale of convertible bonds.

At the time, Deutsche Bank analyst Susan Donofrio said she believed the offering was made to meet roughly $300 million in pension costs due in the first quarter.

In a press release Friday, the company said it doesn't anticipate making any additional contributions to the plan this year, though it expects to add about $ 115 million to its pilots retirement plan, which would bring its total 2004 pension contributions to $440 million.

Delta, the nation's No. 3 air carrier behind AMR Corp. (NYSE:AMR - News)'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s (UAL) United Airlines, has recently stepped up its cost-cutting efforts in an attempt to return to the black.

The company recorded a $327 million loss in the fourth quarter, and it is projecting another loss in the current first quarter.

Last week, Delta received a vote of no confidence from Moody's Investors Service (News - Websites) , which cut the company's debt rating to B3 from B1 citing the airline's weak cash flow, limited prospects for near-term yield improvement and difficult cost-cutting process.

For most of the last year, Delta has been in negotiations with its pilots union, which draws the highest pilot salaries in the industry.

Delta's contribution makes 2004 the second consecutive year the company has voluntarily prefunded its retirement plan. In March 2003, Delta prefunded the plan with a $76 million contribution.

The airline said the decision to prefund the plan leaves it with "more level" contribution requirements in the near term.

Company Web site: http://www.delta.com

 

[EternalOptimist]

I am a little shocked that no one has responded anytime I have put this comment on a thread.

If you take every NON-Customer who posts here and assume they are US Airwas employees you have LESS than a half of a percent of the total number of US Employees currently employed.

I am beginning to question if all we have here is a highly vocal minority who seek to destroy an enflame.

That is exactly what we have, and they are in fact a minority. It is sad, the amount of misinformation spread by these folks, it is like manure!

Most US Airways employees are looking forward to fighting another day, I know I am. No one likes it, it is not our fault, it is just where we are and what will have to be done to move forward.

 

[700UW]

Guess you dont speak for the IAM!

February 26, 2004

US AIRWAYS IAM MEMBERS OF DISTRICT LODGE 141-M

Today Thursday February 26th, I read with interest CEO David Siegel’s comments to Aviation Daily.

Siegel is quoted “making good progress†with the carrier’s labor groups.

Siegel is also quoted that he believes management is entering a “constructive phase†in its labor talks after both sides “vented†frustrations.

I am confused. Siegel would have us believe that talks have been on going with all the labor groups on US Airways. Once again, Dave has it wrong. There have been NO meetings with the IAM concerning further concessions.

Siegel also said, “we have no choice but to rally togetherâ€. I assume he means that the employees should rally around the flag to once again reach into our pockets and pay for his mismanagement of our past generosity.

I guess he is suggesting that there is some spirit of cooperation within the employee groups and we are all eager to make further concessions to help him further mismanage US Airways.

Do I have to remind you how David choose to spend many of the dollars that we contributed to his management team in order for the carrier to exit bankruptcy? I probably don’t but I will any way. He has spent money for attorneys in an attempt to violate our contract by farming out Airbus heavy maintenance. Remember, these are attorneys paid for by our own dollars.

That fight continues to this day.

His management team has spurned every suggestion from the IAM on ways the carrier can improve operations and methods on every day procedures that would save millions of dollars a year. You workers know exactly what I am talking about.

I guess a word about labor relations should also be addressed. You would think that a company that’s very survival hinges on it’s employees moral might work a little harder to earn the goodwill of it’s employees. Instead simple grievances are being denied continually and District 141-M is forced to arbitration, which is costly, frustrating and time consuming. Is this any way to win friends and influence people? I think not.

I don’t know what the other US Airways labor groups are doing but I do know that if David Siegel expects meaningful discussions with District 141-M of the IAM, then he and his team better start showing a change of attitude or he may find himself the awkward teenager at the school dance going home disappointed and lonely.

Sincerely and fraternally,

Scotty Ford
President/Directing General Chairman

From 141:

February 23, 2003

Response from Randy Canale to Doug McKeen

Doug McKeen
Vice President Labor Relations
US Airways
2345 Crystal Dr.
Arlington, VA. 22227

Dear Mr. McKeen:

This is in response to your e-mail request to meet with District Lodge 141 on Thursday, February 26, 2004 at USA Headquarters, and our telephone discussion of February 20, 2004.

We have declined to respond to the Company’s directive (I use their term because the date and time were arbitrarily established by the Company and not by mutual agreement) as we can see no purpose being served.

We do not share the root cause of the Company’s continued struggles, and it has been made abundantly clear by the Officers of the Company you do not share our views. Our members have made a huge investment in their Airline, both in sweat equity and wage investments, ($240 million per year, for six years by the IAM).

We have seen our efforts/investments squandered by poor management of the Carrier. Starting at the top with CEO Seigel and working its way down to the front line supervisors.

District 141 on a number of occasions has initiated meetings with Corporate Officers, Management and a member of the Board of Directors (not the IAM member of the Board.) We have also held joint meetings with District 141-M of the IAM and Corporate Management. The purpose of those meetings was to provide the Company with millions of dollars in savings just by improvements in the operation of the Airline. These meetings have been to no avail with the Company. No interest was expressed by the Company and the response has been to declare war on the very heart of the “franchiseâ€, its employees.

Our members have seen their once proud Airline run into the ground (operationally and Customer service wise) by a total inept level of management, not seen since People’s Express/Eastern Airlines and we know what happened to those Airlines. This is only underscored by an example experienced by our members in Philadelphia. USA passengers chanting, Southwest! Southwest! Southwest!, as they wait and wait for their bags to arrive, due in no way to Fleet Service, I might add. If staffing levels were appropriate, these types of problems would not exist.

Our members are frustrated by poor management of the airline operation, disillusioned/ dismayed by a management that doesn’t respond to real help and savings, angered by a waste of their money and being targeted as the problem.

You can whine about low-cost competition, but Southwest is the most union organized domestic airline (including the highest wages), but what you refuse to see or acknowledge is a superior management and operation, achieved with their employees.

This management has been given the tools and opportunity, and has failed miserably, and ignores/refuses help from its own employees.

We have no intention of giving this Management anymore than valuable advice. With the current Corporate Officers, our members could pay to work at the carrier, and this Management would find a way to lose.

We could turn this “franchise†around, both in profitability and operationally if there was a sincere effort to commit together.

When there is a management in place to do so, we will be first in line to make it happen.


Sincerely,

S.R. (Randy) Canale
President & Directing General Chairperson
District 141

 

[EternalOptimist]

Lets see, and no external events in the industry have significantly added to our financial poor proformance?

Get real! It not just the Bozo's at CCY, it's also the rest of the industry being sucked into the black hole (except LCC's).

 

[LiveInAHotel]

How much more can the US employees actually give? NONE is the correct answer! If you give anymore up, your pay will be below some of the RJ carriers and that's pathetic!

How much longer do you think US can fly before they file Chapter 7 and close the doors? I had a US pilot j/s on my recent flight to DFW and he gives US to the end of the year and it's buh-bye.

STOP CORPORATE GREED!

 

[ClueByFour]

At least the non-employees who post here are informed. If you heard the comments about management's ineptness from the "average" US1, I believe you would find it would be harsher by a factor of magnitude.

 

[More Facts and Less Emotion]

Where does it end? Right now U management is pointing at other airlines' labor costs and saying, "We have to undercut them or die!" So say U is somehow successful in getting its labor costs down to one of the lowest in the industry and starts to turn things around. Then other airlines will point at U with their labor groups and say, "We have to undercut them or die!" So the other airlines undercut U's labor costs. U management will then come back to you and say, "We have to undercut them or die!"

And so on....

How low can you go?

I don't think the management team at US is trying to undercut Southwest, I think the ask is to be on par competitive.

But you bring up an interesting point, what is the domino effect assuming every carrier had the same average cost?

US thought during bankruptcy it would come out with the lowest cost of all the legacy carriers, not as low as Southwest but a lot of breathing room ahead of the other majors. But what happened? UA and AA, the two biggest carriers pulled off concessions that immediately muted the US concessions. But now the LCCs are growing like weeds and so there is no other benchmark except LCCs. If you want to survive, you have no choice other than being 100% competitive on costs with the likes of a carrier like Southwest.

But your point is interesting and I had not thought about it until now but at the end of this wild ride there is actually a very promising future for US.

Consider this, assuming everyone has the same costs, US has an interesting advantage that results in a VERY scary scenario in the future of Southwest. US is in the primary airports and Southwest is in the secondary airports. If the costs are matched, the fares can also be matched. So in the case of living in BOS, why go to PVD to get the cheap fare? Why go to BWI instead of going to DCA when living in Washington? And on and on. The whole secondary airport strategy which has been so great for Southwest in the past immediately becomes a potentially deadly disadvantage.

 

[youngblood]

I am a little shocked that no one has responded anytime I have put this comment on a thread.

If you take every NON-Customer who posts here and assume they are US Airwas employees you have LESS than a half of a percent of the total number of US Employees currently employed.

I am beginning to question if all we have here is a highly vocal minority who seek to destroy an enflame.

That is exactly what we have, and they are in fact a minority. It is sad, the amount of misinformation spread by these folks, it is like manure!

Most US Airways employees are looking forward to fighting another day, I know I am. No one likes it, it is not our fault, it is just where we are and what will have to be done to move forward.

I'll be the first to admit that rumors spread like wild fire, but I would bet my last dollar that the group I work with is done with giving. The so-called minority you mention on these threads voice the opinions of the majority scared witless by management. Then again I have not much to lose simply because I have nothing left to lose; whereas, a lot of my collegues have plenty to lose including retiring on their own volition in the near future.

With recent quotes, stories, and info posted on this forum I have decided to take my gloves off. I am a victim of corporate greed and mismanagement but I won't go down without a fight. IMO CEOs of most companies (especially failing ones) are overpaid and underworked. They look to employees to save on costs but don't listen to the exceptional ideas employees have. In the meantime, they are shoving the money we gave into their trousers. Piney, before you even attempt to dispute the fact that our employees have had some ideas to save the company money or create more revenue, I suggest you ask Dave to hand over the suggestion vault that is collecting dust somewhere in Crystal City.

USFLIBOI,

I am tired of hearing your "reality" cry. Reality is this - if some group, be it US employees or someone else, does not stop the onslaught of the latest trend by corporate America then your next job will be making much less than what you do now. And if you need clarification, open your ears and listen to the buzz. Corporations aren't just looking to cut costs, they are planning on paying sweat shop wages. Do you want to live in a box in the alley or stay in the place you currently reside. Your choice. Union member or not, I would choose the later.

 

[usfliboi]

[
I am tired of hearing your "reality" cry. Reality is this - if some group, be it US employees or someone else, does not stop the onslaught of the latest trend by corporate America then your next job will be making much less than what you do now. And if you need clarification, open your ears and listen to the buzz. Corporations aren't just looking to cut costs, they are planning on paying sweat shop wages. Do you want to live in a box in the alley or stay in the place you currently reside. Your choice. Union member or not, I would choose the later.

Im not concerned just dont look read or listen . To bury your head in the sand is your choice. 700 Again you mince words. All the majors includinf NW Dl etc have had give backs Major Ones and are being asked yet again to give. Just recently Nw announced another round of cuts and dl is still russelling the pilots for more. Its important for you and your agenda to make it appear that this is a US problem because its managements fault. I think the facts show across the board this isnt unique to us all be it were in worse shape than others simply because this airline was mismanaged for far greater of a period and time. Its reality and we face it or rant and rave and turn our heads.

 

[700UW]

700 Again you mince words. All the majors includinf NW Dl etc have had give backs Major Ones and are being asked yet again to give. Just recently Nw announced another round of cuts and dl is still russelling the pilots for more. Its important for you and your agenda to make it appear that this is a US problem because its managements fault. I think the facts show across the board this isnt unique to us all be it were in worse shape than others simply because this airline was mismanaged for far greater of a period and time. Its reality and we face it or rant and rave and turn our heads.

Wrong again,!

NWA employees have not given NWA any concessions, their mechanics, pilot and F/As are not even in negotiations. The IAM ramp and customer service contracts are amendable and in Federal Mediation with the IAM taking the position of no givebacks if you don't believe me go to their negotiations web site at

http://www.iam143.org/nwa_negs.htm

And at DL to this date they have not enacted concessions on the non-union employees and their pilots and DL are very far from obtaining any concessions.

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/markets/er...n/10140875.html
1/30/04 from thestreet.com
A day after pilots at Delta Air Lines (DAL:NYSE - commentary - research) said negotiations over pay cuts were going poorly, Credit Suisse First Boston downgraded shares of the carrier, telling investors the talks will drag on, giving rise to bankruptcy fears.

On Thursday, Delta presented its second contract proposal to ALPA, which included the same 30% pay cut that was rejected in its first proposal, disappointing union leaders who expected some kind of compromise.

"Until today's proposal from management, I was hopeful that we could reach a settlement. Although optimism is fading, your union remains open to reaching a midcontract agreement," said John Malone, head of the union's executive board, in a letter to pilots on Thursday

"Now we are hearing airline analysts state that Delta is subtly warning of the possibility of bankruptcy and that 'everything rests on a labor deal' with the pilots," said Malone. "While no one can predict what path the company will choose, I strongly encourage you to start a contingency fund and begin financially preparing for the future."

To help gain concessions, Delta has already replaced CEO Leo Mullin, who had a contentious relationship with unions. But at the moment, negotiations are at a standstill as Delta plays hardball.

"There are no further talks scheduled at this time," said Karen Miller, a spokesperson for Delta's ALPA. "We're still leaving the door open but at this point, management appears to have adopted a 'take it or leave it' stance. The pilots are willing to help the company and are looking for a return on their investment."

If you think NWA closing CTOs is mutual concessions from the IAM then you are never gonna learn.

Lets see, CO, DL, NW, WN are all majors where have those airlines and the employees given or gotten concessions?

So lets see your facts where NWA employees have taken concessions and where DL's pilots have done the same.

Where has AA or UA asked current employees for more concessions?

Lets see the facts usfliboi, FACTS something you have no idea about!

 

[USA320Pilot]

PineyBob:

PineyBob said: "I am beginning to question if all we have here is a highly vocal minority who seek to destroy an enflame."

USA320Pilot comments: Bob, that's exactly what we have here.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot