Hawk, Its people like you that leave a "fowl" taste in my mouth!!!!! Gloating over the fact that people will be losing their jobs. Something you people in managment should be real PROUD about. "What did you do at work today daddy?" "I furloughed a few thousand mechanics so we could have more". And you wonder why the attidtude S****** around here. :angry:Hawk said:
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BillLumbergh
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We're getting off topic here.
Harry Callahan
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HAWK:
It takes a lot of balls to come on here like this and laugh & put your finger in the face of every US employee that has worked so hard & allowed you to live the good life while many are on the streets & the rest of us near poverty. I hope you are proud of yourself. What goes around comes around. Your turn WILL come! :down:
It takes a lot of balls to come on here like this and laugh & put your finger in the face of every US employee that has worked so hard & allowed you to live the good life while many are on the streets & the rest of us near poverty. I hope you are proud of yourself. What goes around comes around. Your turn WILL come! :down:
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
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THe figures you quote are stated to be from 2000, not 2003. The same articleSilentWarrior said:
(http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/20/Business/Fight_or_flight.shtml) quotes ACAA as saying that their current costs per pax are $9.
Moderator, how do I quote a posting from one thread onto a new thread? Can I?
Hawk
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- Sep 28, 2003
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I apologize if I offended anyone with my duck photo. I was not exulting the outsourcing topic. The company did not announce any job losses due to the Airbus work. How can you lose jobs when you never performed the work? There is not a CEO in this industry that does not wish that every furlough employee could be recalled. It is irrational to think that your CEO yearns for furloughs. The events of Sept. 11th changed the entire industry. It is too easy to blame Corporate America for outsourcing jobs. How successful are the “Buy USA†campaigns in this country? You probably don’t hesitate with the purchase of tennis shoes. Look at the labels next time you purchase a pair of Nike, Reebok, Filas, or Adidas. Nike has stated numerous times that it is not “economically viable" to manufacture its shoes in the United States. Do I like it? NO, but Corporate America has no choice. Do you pay a worker $4 per day or $10-20 per hour to manufacture shoes?
My suggestion is that Corporate America should stay ahead of the development curve and offer a competitive service. Here is an example: An American software engineer costs between $50,000 and $80,000 annually, while an Indian software engineer costs $5,000 to $8,000. Microsoft and IBM's are outsourcing their intellectual property development. Do you recommend that companies compete on a marginal high-end? American workers do compete on quality with the foreign competitors. Labor expects US Airways to sit around with their hands tied while the competition is outsourcing maintenance jobs.
This is a concept that the unions don't fully understand. The bottom line is that the Airbus work will save the company money. PERIOD! Every employee should be appeased with this notion. Do you really care about your “brothers†returning to the flock? I care about my own well-being and future only. Find me one union member who is willing to give up their job to have a furloughed member recalled.
The Airbus work will be declared a minor dispute. We should have a decision this week. There will be no illegal job actions. The IAM has clearly stated that they will play by the rules and take this through the proper legal channels.
It is time that labor wake up and get in the real world. The outsourcing will continue within the airline industry. They can’t stop this movement. Why not outsource the Fleet Service jobs. Is it economically viable to pay an employee $19 plus benefits to load bags or operate ground equipment? No, and I predict that this will change in the future. There are plenty of workers that are willing to perform these functions at a lower salary.
On a different issue, I recommend that every AFA member vote no for affiliation with the CWA. Talk with the ATO agents about their union. What has the CWA done for its members lately? Talk with the mainline-express agents. How about those Kiosks? The CWA sold this contact to its members. Wait till those 170 RJS enter service. The AFA should be a stand-alone union. What if your union dues were increased with this affiliation? Don’t buy into the AFA propaganda.
My suggestion is that Corporate America should stay ahead of the development curve and offer a competitive service. Here is an example: An American software engineer costs between $50,000 and $80,000 annually, while an Indian software engineer costs $5,000 to $8,000. Microsoft and IBM's are outsourcing their intellectual property development. Do you recommend that companies compete on a marginal high-end? American workers do compete on quality with the foreign competitors. Labor expects US Airways to sit around with their hands tied while the competition is outsourcing maintenance jobs.
This is a concept that the unions don't fully understand. The bottom line is that the Airbus work will save the company money. PERIOD! Every employee should be appeased with this notion. Do you really care about your “brothers†returning to the flock? I care about my own well-being and future only. Find me one union member who is willing to give up their job to have a furloughed member recalled.
The Airbus work will be declared a minor dispute. We should have a decision this week. There will be no illegal job actions. The IAM has clearly stated that they will play by the rules and take this through the proper legal channels.
It is time that labor wake up and get in the real world. The outsourcing will continue within the airline industry. They can’t stop this movement. Why not outsource the Fleet Service jobs. Is it economically viable to pay an employee $19 plus benefits to load bags or operate ground equipment? No, and I predict that this will change in the future. There are plenty of workers that are willing to perform these functions at a lower salary.
On a different issue, I recommend that every AFA member vote no for affiliation with the CWA. Talk with the ATO agents about their union. What has the CWA done for its members lately? Talk with the mainline-express agents. How about those Kiosks? The CWA sold this contact to its members. Wait till those 170 RJS enter service. The AFA should be a stand-alone union. What if your union dues were increased with this affiliation? Don’t buy into the AFA propaganda.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Hey hawk,
who do you think will "buy" tickets from full service airlines when most of the folks in the US that make a decent wage are replaced by the "cheap" overseas (or foreign owned) help? It's only temporary anyway, maybe for 10 years, maybe 20, but once they control your business, you're through! They'll jack up the prices, and you'll have little or NO control over quality OR quantity. If this is the kind of CRAP they teach you guys at Harvard business school it's no wonder the economy is in the state that it's in. I would expect it to get MUCH WORSE, considering that the new standard for the American worker is going to be minimum wage!
And, one more thing. If the company wants to economize, they should start at the top. Management makes WAY TOO MUCH for their proven inablility to manage!
who do you think will "buy" tickets from full service airlines when most of the folks in the US that make a decent wage are replaced by the "cheap" overseas (or foreign owned) help? It's only temporary anyway, maybe for 10 years, maybe 20, but once they control your business, you're through! They'll jack up the prices, and you'll have little or NO control over quality OR quantity. If this is the kind of CRAP they teach you guys at Harvard business school it's no wonder the economy is in the state that it's in. I would expect it to get MUCH WORSE, considering that the new standard for the American worker is going to be minimum wage!
And, one more thing. If the company wants to economize, they should start at the top. Management makes WAY TOO MUCH for their proven inablility to manage!
pitguy
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- Aug 21, 2002
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USA labor is one of the cheapest of all the industrialized nations for labor. Germany, Sweden, Japan, England and many others are higher in labor costs. The only way the company will save money on the Airbus is when it lays off thousands of maintenance employees. Based on a previous posters statements it would behoove us to stay banded together as it appears management will not be done and no employee group will be left untouched.
--Bob, I recommend dumping all your points very soon.
--Bob, I recommend dumping all your points very soon.
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Smartest Loser
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- Jun 20, 2003
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Hawk,Hawk said:
1. Henry Ford wanted two cars in everybody's garage. Why..??
He wanted something better for all AMERICAN FAMILIES..!!
Not, lets farm out 50% of the car or whatever to Asia and my profits will go up. You guys need to get out of those books and look around from time to time. The AMERICAN WORKER is sick of being held at a lower wage just because some CEO wants a summer house in the Grand Banks. BWT, the largest Union in the nation...??? The Teachers Union. They just don't get it do they..?? They teach YOUR kids.
2. Typical MGT. thinking....Eat your own young. :down: :down:
3. Either way it comes down... I bet you lose in the long run. (See point 1)
I'm done...!!! :angry:
:angry: :angry: 
ITRADE
Veteran
Henry Ford wouldn't send work overseas. He was a fervent anti-Semite, and according to some historical reports, a closet Nazi.Smartest Loser said:1. Henry Ford wanted two cars in everybody's garage. Why..??
He wanted something better for all AMERICAN FAMILIES..!!
A terrific guy to look up to.... :blink: :blink: :blink:
ITRADE
Veteran
Actually, an interesting point. This partially explains the reasons why auto manufacturers like Honda, Toyota, and BMW have all set up shop with operations in the United States (Of course, they're set up primarily in right to work states in the South, but that's a different point). And, they're set up to insulate themselves from potential antidumping liability by operating as part of the "domestic industry."pitguy said:
OTOH, while the U.S. is comparatively cheaper with respect to Japan, Germany, France, etc., it is not cheap in comparison to industrialized countries such as Italy, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc. And, moving a rung farther down, its is significantly more expensive than developing and nearly industrialized countries like Brazil, India, Thailand, Mexico, and South Africa.
PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
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Hawk,
Don't blame Corporate America? Buying tennis shoes that are made in foreign lands that pay workers dirt cheap wages????
Then, my friend, Corporate American greed, who took the jobs from American citizens, has the audacity to bring those same tennis shoes and charge approx $100 a pair, and we are stupid enough to purchase them ON CREDIT ofcourse, cause we don't have good enough jobs or no jobs to pay for them any other way. Eventually, the American workforce goes into BK because they are all credited out...then what will Corporate America do when the Americans are no longer able to purchase these foreign made products? Who will you sell them to then at $100 a pair, China? Japan? Hope they can afford it on their wages. What will the gov. do when the workers are no longer able to have good enough jobs to support the country and the government? You think Corporate America won't pay???? Someone has to to run a country? I think that leaves you. And if there is no element of balance in the work force, it will have to fall on Business. So what will you be saving?
No Hawk, we employees are NOT pleased that outsourcing will save the co. money. WE ALREADY GAVE YOU THE COST SAVINGS REQUIRED LESS THAN A YEAR AGO, TWICE.
YOU CAN NOT STEAL MORE! Stating that it will not cost present mechanic jobs, does not mean it will not in the future when the boeings retire. Judge is so well aware of this as well.
Don't blame Corporate America? Buying tennis shoes that are made in foreign lands that pay workers dirt cheap wages????
Then, my friend, Corporate American greed, who took the jobs from American citizens, has the audacity to bring those same tennis shoes and charge approx $100 a pair, and we are stupid enough to purchase them ON CREDIT ofcourse, cause we don't have good enough jobs or no jobs to pay for them any other way. Eventually, the American workforce goes into BK because they are all credited out...then what will Corporate America do when the Americans are no longer able to purchase these foreign made products? Who will you sell them to then at $100 a pair, China? Japan? Hope they can afford it on their wages. What will the gov. do when the workers are no longer able to have good enough jobs to support the country and the government? You think Corporate America won't pay???? Someone has to to run a country? I think that leaves you. And if there is no element of balance in the work force, it will have to fall on Business. So what will you be saving?
No Hawk, we employees are NOT pleased that outsourcing will save the co. money. WE ALREADY GAVE YOU THE COST SAVINGS REQUIRED LESS THAN A YEAR AGO, TWICE.
YOU CAN NOT STEAL MORE! Stating that it will not cost present mechanic jobs, does not mean it will not in the future when the boeings retire. Judge is so well aware of this as well.
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