To those that think you can or will vacate the coming NMB decision in court

[WeAAsles]

 
Bad Bad Bob! Didn't give TWU members the opportunity to decide whether $$ should be spent on the lawsuit? A TWU official not providing membership input on expenditures? Oh, that's right. The TWU Constitution that governs our leadership doesn't provide for it! Thanks for the reminder as to why we need get rid of this scumbag organization.
 
And before you conspiracy nutjobs can run amuck on this one:
Local591 President - Gary Peterson
Seham,Seham, Meltz & Petersen
...putz

To clarify since it disturbed you that I spelled the last name wrong apparently.

Scott C. Petersen joined the firm as a Partner in 1994. He is a former U.S. Air Force pilot (Capt., U.S.A.F., 1972-1978) who served as In-house and General Counsel for independent pilot associations at two of the major domestic airlines for many years. Mr. Petersen is a founding member of the National Transportation Safety Board Bar Association (“NTSB-BA”), and has extensive experience in labor/management relations, federal aviation law, NLRB hearings, employment discrimination law, internal union affairs, DOT regulatory issues and ERISA/pension matters.

 

[DallasConehead]

"People" denotes plurality, a group, the group made a collective decision, not just a Little and Buffy.  Let the people vote, whats wrong with that? Are you against Democracy? You seem to imply its better that no choice is given to anyone because not everyone will be satisfied. 

Vote for what? 
 
TWU, IAM, AMFA, no one has enough cards, and if you want a showing of interest you need enough  cards? Its a 50% threshold since there are unions in place right? I bet if there was a card drive enough cards could not be collected for any organization to show interest, then what Bob? Well???
 
Do you think these people are stupid?
 
If the No Union choice was offered that would be my choice.
 
Anyway, go pay Seham another 200K, slow up the process to a standstill for 2-3 more years, keep your members in the dark and continue to do nothing to improve their agreements. You guys blow.

 

[Bob Owens]

Vote for what? 
 
TWU, IAM, AMFA, no one has enough cards, and if you want a showing of interest you need enough  cards? Its a 50% threshold since there are unions in place right? I bet if there was a card drive enough cards could not be collected for any organization to show interest, then what Bob? Well???
 
Do you think these people are stupid?
 
If the No Union choice was offered that would be my choice.
 
Anyway, go pay Seham another 200K, slow up the process to a standstill for 2-3 more years, keep your members in the dark and continue to do nothing to improve their agreements. You guys blow.

The government assumes that if you have a Union that was voted in that there is a showing of interest to remain in that union. Not saying I agree with it but thats the standards in place. So according to the standards in place the TWU is currently the only union that has a showing of interest since the membership of the TWU is over 50% of the combined group. Under this standard the IAM has a showing of interest from its current membership but not enough to have a vote, they would need to get enough cards from AA so in total they had over 50% of the combined group then they could call for an election. After the concessionary deal they brought back with a company earning billions I doubt they would get many cards from the AA guys.
 
The question being posed to the NMB is does a Union have the right to change representation without any consent from the members? In the case they are citing as precedence the Unions allowed their members to vote and took those results to the NMB. TWU/IAM have not done this and is trying to get the NMB to assume that without a vote they have the right to do as they please with us, the problem with this is that they aren't just trying to deny our right to vote but are trying to impose the restriction on a representation voting as if we did or there was a rejected filing.  If the NMB allows this all a Union needs to do is keep forming new associations every couple of years and the members never have any opportunity to change representation, the relationship is permanently altered between the parties. The Union is no longer required to have our consent to be our representative, they own us instead of us being represented by them. Sure some Union leaders may be foaming at the mouth of such a prospect but on the whole it will continue to alienate all but the most cultish of members. Unions will lose even more credibility as democratic organizations. 
 
No-Union? Doubt anyone who reads your stuff would be surprised.

 

[WeAAsles]

Vote for what?
 
Anyway, go pay Seham another 200K, slow up the process to a standstill for 2-3 more years, keep your members in the dark and continue to do nothing to improve their agreements. You guys blow.

$200,000 DOLLARS!!!!!?????  #1 did you type that correctly and #2 Do you have any proof that Local 591 made such a payment without first asking the membership if they could spend such an exorbitant amount of THEIR money?

I have to doubt very very highly that 200k was siphoned off to Seeham for this suit?

 

 

[700UW]

Anyone from 591 has the right to see the expenditures.

 

[Vortilon]

Yes you are putting words in my mouth. Again I was not speculating on what will happen. I gave an example of what could happen. You can point all you want but If the NMB rules for the Association and no vote then your interpretation is flawed.
 
You are right it isn't just a AMFA thing.
 
Again I am not speculating on what the NMB will rule. Maybe what you submit is right but if the NMB rules the Association is certified without a vote then you are wrong and you and nobody else will be able to do anything about it except lose a lawsuit if it even goes that far.
 
In the end the NMB will not be overturned in any ruling they make.
 
Full Disclosure  I can't stand the TWU, IAM, AMFA, IBT or The Association and don't care who goes in because they all stink. But in my opinion AMFA would be the worse choice.
 
 
Actually Vortilon I know quite a bit about how AMFA screwed up. But what have I disclosed on here to be told I am clueless? What have I said on here that makes you believe that the IAM or TWU are my heros?
 
You sound clueless about the process of being certified. You say that because AMFA failed to get enough cards they were conspired against and if they had 50 more cards would be on the property. Sounds like you don't know that is just the first step. Um how about an election first? You couldn't even get enough cards and you say you would have won? LOL ok sure ya would have.
 
AMFA is a disgrace. They can't get cards in on time and then try to skirt the rules and when AMFA is ruled against their supporters say it is a big conspiracy and unfair. WAH WAH WAH

 
I'm only stating facts, it's really that simple.  Do you really believe that the TWU and AA management would be above fudging the numbers of eligible voters to help water down the M&R vote?  If so, I would submit that you are; in fact, clueless.  I do know the first step - collecting cards.  Been through it more than a few times.   You say AMFA is a disgrace.  Anybody that believes what happened with that phoney IBT drive wasn't a ploy by the TWU & AA management to prevent the AMFA from submitting the signed authorization cards - is in complete denial or a common idiot.
 
Tell you what IAM suckboy, why don't you walk into any line AMT break room and try spouting off the way you do on this BB - see how far that gets ya.  Then we will see who ends up crying....

 

[Vortilon]

Spend that $$$$ .....BTW - 50 cards is nothing to sink more $$ into....it's a dead issue

 
 
Gee thanks Mike, you sound like a TWU international type.  Listening to guys like you have your way contract over contract, has pretty much got the AMTs at AA - well...nowhere.

 

[Vortilon]

With many lawsuits there are time constraints, the membership elected us to run the Local, if the membership is against the lawsuit they can make a motion to abandon the lawsuit or remove us through recall, but the feedback I've gotten from members is they want us to at least try and legally challenge things if there is at least a chance of success and not simply collect their money money and say that nothing can be done and allow any and everyone to run roughshod over our rights.  
 
I would favor a lawsuit to preserve our members right to vote on representation.  I do not believe that the members are a commodity for the Unions to barter, either with the company or between Unions. I believe that the members I represent feel the same way. If I am wrong then the members should avail themselves to the language of the bylaws and remove me. 

 
As a member in good standing of local 591, I support the efforts of the local to spend that money on fighting for the rights of the memberships ability to vote on the JCBA.  Even if it means giving up the yearly pocket calendars.

 

[WeAAsles]

As a member in good standing of local 591, I support the efforts of the local to spend that money on fighting for the rights of the memberships ability to vote on the JCBA.  Even if it means giving up the yearly pocket calendars.

Did you mean the Association? I think that's what Bob was talking about. You'll get to vote on the JCBA, not sure about the association yet?

Spend that money man. Many lawyers own boats and need the money to maintain those nice toys they have. They always appreciate your contributions.

 

[DallasConehead]

Deleted

 

[DallasConehead]

 
 
No-Union? Doubt anyone who reads your stuff would be surprised.

 
 
Just tell me exactly what you have done for me lately other then take my money, trying to screw away any chance of a jcba, tied up my shares, done nothing to get my match, and your representation is nearly worthless on the field. Why do I bother with you people?  Damn right, given the chance, and seeing your track record, no doubt I would vote to get out.
 
 
 


 
 

 

[toroshark]

With many lawsuits there are time constraints, the membership elected us to run the Local, if the membership is against the lawsuit they can make a motion to abandon the lawsuit or remove us through recall, but the feedback I've gotten from members is they want us to at least try and legally challenge things if there is at least a chance of success and not simply collect their money money and say that nothing can be done and allow any and everyone to run roughshod over our rights.  
 
I would favor a lawsuit to preserve our members right to vote on representation.  I do not believe that the members are a commodity for the Unions to barter, either with the company or between Unions. I believe that the members I represent feel the same way. If I am wrong then the members should avail themselves to the language of the bylaws and remove me.

Bob, Bob, Bob, you are advocating democracy there buddy. That doesn't fit into Mr.weasels, NYer, or Mr.700 IAM zealot's idea of how OUR local should conduct business. Funny how none of them happen to be a member of local 591.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
 
Just tell me exactly what you have done for me lately other then take my money, trying to screw away any chance of a jcba, tied up my shares, done nothing to get my match, and your representation is nearly worthless on the field. Why do I bother with you people?  Damn right, given the chance, and seeing your track record, no doubt I would vote to get out.
 
 

So your idea of a Union is where you sit back as an individual and expect other individuals to do everything for you? If you have a problem with me, and others feel the same our Local has a remedy for that, recall, we had in in 562 and I pushed hard to get it in there. I wrote up the motion and the Bylaw language, and after it passed we submitted it to the International who rejected it, I then dug into the Convention notes where it was declared that any Local has the right to put Recall into their bylaws and put that in our appeal, the International then allowed us to have recall.
 
 
So if your problem is with me then do something about it, but instead you would rather just sit back, suck up to management and blame everything on people in the Union (that you have a say in whether they remain or not)  that you feel don't do enough for YOU. Because You don't like Me you say you would rather have No Union and subject yourself to the whims of Paul Wroble who demanded that the mechanics at NWA vote in a deal that not only slashed wages and benefits but required that half the guys vote to eliminate their jobs as well. 
 
So what have we done for YOU Mr Conehead? What we have done is set up the most Transparent and Democratic Local that M&R has ever seen. We post our Financial Reports and minutes on line, we conduct voting online so everyone gets an opportunity to vote where now we see between 70% to over 90% of eligible voters vote on motions. We challenge anyone who tries to take away our members rights through either the Grievance process or the Court system. We have given every steward quick easy access to filing grievances by issuing every steward a Tablet where they can electronically file grievances online and research the issues. We now have an improved communications structure so that all our members from Boston to San Diego get the same information and they can see whats going on in other locations. You may not care about any of these things, but thats ok, cant please everyone but we believe that these things serve everyone in the local and will help us enact strategies that will allow us to combat further erosion and win back what we lost, and thats what its all about. 
 
JCBA-thats being tied up by the NMB, and since it affects all of us (514, 567, 591) any action on that to pressure the NMB to decide has to come from the International, we submitted thousands of signatures back in August saying that we do not want the Association, that we expect the NMB to apply the rules as written, and those signatures came from 591 and 514.
 
Match-Once again, a grievance has been filed and that Grievance is the ATDs to move forward on. If you recall I spoke out very strongly against your buddy Dons language about "successful resolution of the 114 process " because I believed what has happened would happen. Did you vote Yes?
 
Shares- that is due to the lawsuit filed by former coworkers who took the bird in the hand and now want the two in the bush as well. Thanks to them we wont see those shares till the case is closed. 

 

[AANOTOK]

Match-Once again, a grievance has been filed and that Grievance is the ATDs to move forward on. If you recall I spoke out very strongly against your buddy Dons language about "successful resolution of the 114 process " because I believed what has happened would happen. Did you vote Yes?
 
 

The last letter I read Bob was that the grievance had been withdrawn by the union.
http://twu514.org/files/2014/12/2014_December_3-Prefunding-29d-Status.pdf
If this has been updated, I have not heard nor seen anything written about it.
 
And it has also been suggested by some that we are sitting back and letting the APFA do the work.
I do believe their grievance is to be heard some time in April.

 

[Slopoke]

The last letter I read Bob was that the grievance had been withdrawn by the union.
http://twu514.org/files/2014/12/2014_December_3-Prefunding-29d-Status.pdf
If this has been updated, I have not heard nor seen anything written about it.
 

 
I just read the letter. Where in it does it state that the grievance has been "withdrawn"? I read that it has been postponed, not withdrawn.