Contract Abrogation & Right To Strike

[Doc]

For those ready to "pack it in" DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! If your wanting revenge , your only hurting your fellow co workers and friends, who obviously have chosen to stay! To talk of a stupid strike, is just plain "STUPID" Strikes are valis and can be used when theres something to be gained... THERS NOTHING TO GAIN FROM STRIKING! NAME ONE THING!!!!!!!!! It will never happen, and if it does, ill proudly be a "SCAB" Ill gladly fight a war thats worth fighting, and is based on common sense, this isnt one of them. I dare say any union leaders would believe , theres anything to gain. ANy insite MR 700? Im sure you have some!

[post="198516"][/post]​

You will be walking by a lot of friends for the last time ...because they will not be your friend any longer after being a scab.......it's a four letter word......

By the way it's not revenge it's standING up to what you think is right and just
YOU DON'T GET IT.........

 

[PITbull]

USA320Pilot your situation and ours is different. You will still make a living wage and far more than you will make if it shuts down and you start over, not true for us. We, on the other hand are being ask to take less than a living wage. You will still be able to put food on the table for your family, we will not. See you give up the 2nd home or maybe the boat, we give up paying the electric bill.

[post="198730"][/post]​

This is exactly correct and exactly the point!

 

[BoeingBoy]

For what it's worth, let's see what Mr. Seltzer (ALPA's bankruptcy attorney) says about the right to strike after contract abrogation....

"Right to Strike upon Rejection.

Contract rejection gives the union the legal right to strike. Briggs Transp. Co. v. I.B.T., 739 F.2d 341 (8th Cir. 1984). In recent Section 1113 motions Midway II Airlines, United, and US Airways have challenged this conclusion in the context of the Railway Labor Act, without citing any applicable authority. No court has ruled on these arguments."

From a presentation titled
"ASSESSING EMPLOYEE RIGHTS AND EMPLOYER WRONGS IN BANKRUPTCY - A UNION PERSPECTIVE "
by Richard M. Seltzer, Cohen, Weiss and Simon LLP.

The entire document is at
www.bnabooks.com/ababna/annual/2003/seltzer.doc

Jim

 

[delldude]

by Richard M. Seltzer, Cohen, Weiss and Simon LLP.

heard the boys at college called him "alka"....

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways' creditors are requiring the company have LCC market rate contracts for all of its work groups or they will not provide financing. The interim ATSB financing expires on January 15 and requires labor participation.

Therefore, Judge Mitchell has a choice. He can impose permanent contract changes and prevent "self help", if it's legal, and permit the company to operate or he can side with the AFA, IAM, & CWA. If he sides with the unions the company will not meet the creditor's requirements and will liquidate. Moreover, if he permits "self help" the company will liquidate.

Therefore, there are 3 options:

1. The union's can reach new labor accords (either consensual or imposed) and work at US Airways.

2. The union's can reach new labor accords (either consensual or imposed) use the job as a bridge to another job.

3. Not have new labor accords or "self help" and then the company will liquidate. If this occurs nearly 30,000 people will have no income during the holidays, no medical insurance, no dental insurance, no COBRA, no severance pay, no recall rights, no J4J opportunity, and no passes.

Liquidation could be right around the corner and maybe it's time for the ATSB, the creditor's committee, RSA, and management to throw in the towel and just liquidate the company. That way those who support "self help" will get their way and contribute to the business enterprise failing.

As I said before, Rico is right because "you cannot strike what no longer exists" and a part of me wants to see the “Naysayersâ€￾ get their wish to shut the company down.

With that said, in my opinion, Judge Mitchell’s primary responsibility is to the creditor’s committee and he wants to see the company survive. Therefore, I believe the unions will not be able to prove the company does not need labor cost cut relief, he will impose the cuts in the company’s motion, and he will prevent the “self helpâ€￾ option. According to ALPA legal the S.1113© process has never been tested, there is no precedence, and the court has significant latitude.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

USA320,

The company needs to have a "plan" that will increase revenue and yield. That's not by busting labor accords or by stipping the majority of the employees of a "livable wage" just for THE STAKEHOLDERS INVESTMENT.

Therefore, and according to your 3 options you posted, and since at the present moment we 3 groups have a say, AND ARE NOT "AT WILL" EMPLOYEES AT THIS PRESENT DATE...

I choose #3. And you forgot to state that we will have unemployment benefits, which is more than some folks here will make working.

UNHAPPY; TOO BAD! (as Piney Bob always states)...

 

[700UW]

How many times do you have to be told 320, Judge Mitchell cannot force someone to work, once a contract is abrogated you are free to seek self-help as you no longer work under a CBA, and you do still have union certification. Slavery is illegal under the US Constitution.

Why do you keep posting you can't seek self-help?

Funny I see Boeing Boy posted where your self-made god like attorney even said they can strike.

Your level of panic increases with each post.

And US Airways wages are the lowest of the legacy carries and the #1 LCC WN, and some B6 employees are making more then their US counterparts.

And the creditors are not requiring anything, go ask the Isalf(from corporate finance) who gave the unions the transformation plan and the ATSB convenants.

And dont be surprised if 20 planes are returned to the lessor next week as the cure payments are to 11/11/04. Alot of engine mating going on as we speak.

 

[USA320Pilot]

PitBull:

I believe number 3 will be chosen for you. Am I unhappey? No, not really because I believe it will be better to not have fighting.

700UW:

I'm not panicking and I believe my portfolio is better prepared for a shutdown of operations than most others. Do I want to see US Airways survive? Yes, but if it fails I'm prepared, thus there is not panic in our household.

However, if utility is eliminated you will be the one without a job because the IAM elected to have "concession stand closed", until Judge Mitchell opened it. Do I like this? No, but the IAM was the union who refused to participate in the new business plan.

In regard to aircraft returned to the owners and engine changes -- that happened last time too, but not every aircraft was returned. If US Airways loses more jets so be it because this will provide short-term cash flow relief. In regard to pilot jobs, the Pittsburgh Chief Pilot's office told line pilot's on Friday there will be no furloughs. In fact, both the LGA and PIT chief pilot's told line pilot's this week that due to 2005 pilot staffing shortages that there are no VLA's planned.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[WestCoastGuy]

PitBull:

In regard to pilot jobs, the Pittsburgh Chief Pilot's office told line pilot's on Friday there will be no furloughs. In fact, both the LGA and PIT chief pilot's told line pilot's this week that due to 2005 pilot staffing shortages that there are no VLA's planned.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="198750"][/post]​

And we know the company would NEVER lie about anything like that!

 

[700UW]

Funny Glass, Hemenway and Mckeen said differant last week.

20 planes= less pilots.

They returned some 737s, 3-757s and one 767, 20 planes right now with 25 more next year possible.

45 less planes can happen by 1st quarter of march, and dont worry the IAM will do its best to protect.

And there is nothing to talk about when the company cant honor the current contract in place.

Lets see a secured claim of $15 million was won by the IAM cause of the bus farmout, which I believe you said on numerous occasions would be won by the company.

 

[BoeingBoy]

USA320,

The company needs to have a "plan" that will increase revenue and yield.

[post="198742"][/post]​

The problem with the "plan", and assuming that it works as advertised, is this....

It involves putting capacity into some of the most hotly contested markets in the country against some of the lowest cost carriers in the industry - Jetblue/Southwest - and the 800 pound gorilla of the industry - American at MIA. So average yield increases seem unlikely to happen unless some capacity disappears from the east coast.

So that leaves cost. If the plan works as depicted (no creditors pull airplanes, PHL is not as congested as a "focus" city, fuel doesn't stay high, etc) our costs may become competitive with American and Continental, assuming that they don't continue to cut costs. But our costs will still be far from competitive with Jetblue or Southwest. On a cost basis, we won't even be competitive with Airtran, America West, Spirit, and the like. All the PR won't change the numbers, as much as some would like to believe otherwise. And in the final analysis it is the numbers that matter.

Some call this being a "naysayer". Call it what you will, but it's the reality facing all of us. If you want to change this reality, it's easy. Adopt the MDA contracts at mainline, shift those Emb-170's and CRJ's to MESA (they can operate them cheaper than MDA/PSA). Unless you're willing to do that, reality won't change.

Jim

 

[pitguy]

USA320Pilot,

No need for you to fear. You can always have that fly job in a third world country that you spoke of before.

 

[delldude]

I'm not panicking and I believe my portfolio is better prepared for a shutdown of operations than most others. Do I want to see US Airways survive? Yes, but if it fails I'm prepared, thus there is not panic in our household.

guess it won't be too bad with the live in father in law footing the mortgage ,eh guy??

 

[PITbull]

USA320,

As far as your theory that IAM is in worse shape with the judge for not coming to the table as the other labor groups...

For your FYI....WE ARE ALL BEING TREATED THE SAME WHETHER WE CAME YESTERDAY TO THE TABLE OR LAST YEAR.
Hell, don't you observe?

 

[pitguy]

I'm not panicking and I believe my portfolio is better prepared for a shutdown of operations than most others.

USA320Pilot


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I think your portfolio is about to start looking worse.


-Whoop.........whoop..........panic mode..........


-Don't worry I'll look after the nurse and keep her in the lifestyle she is used to.