Contract Abrogation & Right To Strike

[Kev3188]

... THERE'S NOTHING TO GAIN FROM STRIKING! NAME ONE THING!!!!!!!!! It will never happen, and if it does, ill proudly be a "SCAB" Ill gladly fight a war thats worth fighting, and is based on common sense, this isnt one of them.......

[post="198516"][/post]​

This is-without question-the dumbest post I have ever read on this board. Truly pathetic. What war is there still at U "worth fighting?"

God forbid something happens at 41,000ft. If so, I pray you won't react with the same cowardice shown here (though, I'm guessing you'd be stepping over your pax to get to the exit door).

 

[diogenes]

I can't believe you just said that... :angry:

You don't deserve THIS job or any.

You don't deserve to stand next to any employee at U.

Your the type that has reaped all the benefits the union contracts have provided, without you lefting one finger.... only because those before you and after you fought for many, many years for improvements to wages and work conditions...you piece of (damn...deleted by me).

Let me give you an epiphony...if CWA would ever seek "self help" and you crossed that picket line...no one will fly with you, nor will you be able to non-rev anywhere without getting kicked off by either an agent, or a f/a. Your attire will never be deemed appropriate to non-rev.

Trust...we would have your name, and anyone like you.

[post="198524"][/post]​

And wonder why your luggage wound up in Bumf%^&k, Egypt!

 

[700UW]

The Scab
"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab."

"A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles."

"When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."

"No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself." A scab has not.

"Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army." The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class."

Author --- Jack London (1876-1916)

 

[speedbird86]

For those ready to "pack it in" DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! If your wanting revenge , your only hurting your fellow co workers and friends, who obviously have chosen to stay! To talk of a stupid strike, is just plain "STUPID" Strikes are valis and can be used when theres something to be gained... THERS NOTHING TO GAIN FROM STRIKING! NAME ONE THING!!!!!!!!! It will never happen, and if it does, ill proudly be a "SCAB" Ill gladly fight a war thats worth fighting, and is based on common sense, this isnt one of them. I dare say any union leaders would believe , theres anything to gain. ANy insite MR 700? Im sure you have some!

[post="198516"][/post]​

Hmmmmm, I can quickly think of one gain. The corporate terrorist would no longer be able to line their pockets off our blood, sweat and tears.

 

[Whatnow?]

USfliboi, you certainly have a right to your own opinion as does all the "ALMIGHTY" on these boards do. I think its a crying shame what has already happened and what may happen here. For all those caught literally in the middle of this squabble, you certainly have your right to go to work and make a LIVING! What ever is left of it here, I guess all the others already have jobs lined up with paychecks that will be pouring in right away! Good for them! In all honesty, I'm not sure what they are waiting for, maybe a breakthrough with the company and demands they can live with. <_< But rest assured, if some kind of agreement is made with the company suitable for all, they'll be the first to stay on the job!

 

[resinboy475]

if they dont want me i do not want anyone to survie. the iam, cwa, and afa sould just shut it down. walk out together. jerry glass would fail the airline would fail,and those who make over 100,000 woud fail. there a point were it isn't worth it. CALL OUR BUFF.

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy said: "In short, it appears no one can be sure how the judge will rule."

USA320Pilot comments: That's been my point all along. According to ALPA bankruptcy counsel, Richard Seltzer, who spoke to the MEC in "open session", the S.1113© process has never been tested and the court has significant latitude.

Seltzer believes Mitchell will have no option but to impose contract changes, just like he did during the S.1113(e) process. Why? Without the permanent contract changes US airways will fail and liquidate.

Furthermore, Seltzer believes that if a strike occurs the company would liquidate, thus Mitchell will have no option but to prevent "self help" from occurring.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AP Tech]

Now if this Judge refuses to let the unions strike after they are force-fed a contract what is there to stop all corporations across the US to go into Chap 11 threaten liquidation and slash wages and benifits? It must stop somewhere, sometime and now is as good as time as any. :down:

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy said: "In short, it appears no one can be sure how the judge will rule."

USA320Pilot comments: That's been my point all along. According to ALPA bankruptcy counsel, Richard Seltzer, who spoke to the MEC in "open session", the S.1113© process has never been tested and the court has significant latitude.

Seltzer believes Mitchell will have no option but to impose contract changes, just like he did during the S.1113(e) process. Why? Without the permanent contract changes US airways will fail and liquidate.

Furthermore, Seltzer believes that if a strike occurs the company would liquidate, thus Mitchell will have no option but to prevent "self help" from occurring.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="198614"][/post]​

And that's exactly what's wrong with your "point all along". Either the judge has "significant latitude" to craft a solution or he has "no option" but to grant the company's wish list. You say both but constantly push the "no option" version.

As I read the material, it appears that different courts have pretty much covered the spectrum.

There have been different standards used for granting 1113c relief ranging from absolutely necessary to prevent liquidation to needed for successful reorganization.

There have been different forms of 1113c relief ranging from modification of some contract provisions to throwing out the contract completely.

As near as I can tell, the only constant has been that a judge has never prohibited a strike since Lorenzo's antics brought about section 1113 of the bankruptcy code.

Seltzer may believe that Judge Mitchell has no option but to abrogate the contracts (if it comes to that) and prohibit a strike, but that is one opinion. As they say, ask 10 lawyers a question and you'll get 10 different answers.

There is one thing I find interesting. The company seems very interested in getting consensual agreements (on their terms) rather than exercising the 1113c process. If the company lawyers were as sure as you seem to be that 1113c motions are a "slam dunk", I would think they would have filed them already.

Jim

 

[CynicalResAgent]

So A320 are you saying the judge would rather set a precedent that can cause a failed business to squander what little cash they have than declare a failed business to be liquidated while most creditors can be payed off?

U has the worst labor relations I have ever seen. If the judge abrogates service will plummet and the customers will flee......

 

[jimntx]

Seltzer believes Mitchell will have no option but to impose contract changes, just like he did during the S.1113(e) process. Why? Without the permanent contract changes US airways will fail and liquidate.

thus Mitchell will have no option but to prevent "self help" from occurring.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="198614"][/post]​

Seltzer's statements are true only if the judge sees survival of U as the only option. How does Seltzer know whether or not the judge agrees with those who think a lot of the industry ills would be cured by a drastic reduction in capacity? Maybe da judge has decided for liquidation and just hasn't made Mr. Seltzer privy to his decision yet. For all you know, the judge may be reading your postings at this moment and thinking, "Oh is that so? So, Mr. Seltzer says I have no option except to rule for the company. Well, I guess I will have to show him that I have other options."

 

[USA320Pilot]

I doubt that Judge Mitchell reads this website.

Mitchell has approved virtually every company motion and during the S.11139e) hearing, where he imposed contract changes, he called US Airways a "ticking time bomb", if my memory serves me correctly.

I believe the company desires consensual deals because nobody wants to see "imposition". I do not want to see anybody get hurt, but the company cannot survive with its current cost structure. Do I like this? No, I do not.

I continue believe it is best for all employees to use US Airways as a bridge to obtain other employment. If the company shuts down everybody loses with less pay, no severance pay, no medical insurance, no dental insurance, no pass privileges for vacation or job hunting, no J4j (if available) and no recall rights.

Is it better to have 80 to 85% of something or nothing?

In regard to Seltzer, many key ALPA officials believe he is the best and brightest labor bankruptcy attorney in the business.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[MsRes]

Is it better to have 80 to 85% of something or nothing?

[post="198638"][/post]​

I think you're doing that "fuzzy math" again A320. I believe it's more like 50-55% if you happen to be in the CWA. :down:

 

[UseYourHead]

Of course Ch 7 liquidation, is an option...the very one the judge is helping US Airways to avoid. That is why he has approved all that has been approved to this point.

Let me break some news to you that is not popular here in this poison pit...the vast majority of employees I come into contact with on the line want their job, even at reduced pay and benefits. It seems that many are pounding the pavement and finding that the rose colored glasses provide a rather bleak view, and although what is happening here is the biggest change (negative) we have all been through...it is the way of the world.

Read the newspaper, talk to people, this is not just US Airways, but other airlines, and other industries as well.

If a strike happens here, it will be cause by a minority group in power who failed to negotiate, was backed into a corner, and then made the poorest choice of the available bad choices.

Start thinking of what is good here instead of focusing on what you have lost, it can change your perspective.

Seltzer's statements are true only if the judge sees survival of U as the only option. How does Seltzer know whether or not the judge agrees with those who think a lot of the industry ills would be cured by a drastic reduction in capacity? Maybe da judge has decided for liquidation and just hasn't made Mr. Seltzer privy to his decision yet. For all you know, the judge may be reading your postings at this moment and thinking, "Oh is that so? So, Mr. Seltzer says I have no option except to rule for the company. Well, I guess I will have to show him that I have other options."

[post="198636"][/post]​

 

[UseYourHead]

Jim,

So far our (ALPA) laywers have been right-on, even though most here do not admit that. If I was a bettin man, I would bet on them right now.

Of course the company wants consensual agreements, and additionally they have no option but to vigorously persue them. At the end of the day, the only option US Airways has is to get its costs in line...accross the board, all groups, no more Metrojet where only the pilots step up to the plate.

The traveling public want competive options on US Airways and we must provide that while operating in the black...there is no option at this point. The other lagacy airlines are racing to do the same thing.

If we have many employees leave here, there is going to be a line around block to get the jobs at the new deal (just ike at Best Buy, Home Depot, etc.).

Most Flight Attendants and pilots I fly with are outraged at the likes of PITBull and the RC 4 for leading down the road they have, we could be in a much better place here....

There is not a better deal, and for most that includes leaving the company.

Good luck to us all!

Seltzer may believe that Judge Mitchell has no option but to abrogate the contracts (if it comes to that) and prohibit a strike, but that is one opinion. As they say, ask 10 lawyers a question and you'll get 10 different answers.

There is one thing I find interesting. The company seems very interested in getting consensual agreements (on their terms) rather than exercising the 1113c process. If the company lawyers were as sure as you seem to be that 1113c motions are a "slam dunk", I would think they would have filed them already.

Jim

[post="198619"][/post]​