Congress woman shot along with bystanders

[Ms Tree]

It's ok for you to hijack this thread and turn it into a daily

Gun Homicide Death Panel

A gun cannot kill on the same level as a knife.





Link

That is a very interesting way to manipulate data to achieve a specific result. Using the logic in your link nearly any weapon is as lethal as a gun. Yes a knife can be as lethal as a gun. How ever as pointed out by your link, which are you more likely to be killed by? According to your link, 6,800 officers dies because of fie arms, and only 197 due to stabbings. In that regard guns are far more lethal than knives. Guns are easier, quicker and can kill far more people in short time than a knife. I am looking at lethality in terms of over all numbers, not individual lethality of the weapon.

Since the Congress woman and the 6 victims were killed by guns and the media is making a circus over this affair I thought it was appropriate to show that people are getting murdered every day and no one seems care.

I do not know what the answer is. Banning all weapons in unrealistic. I do not think automatic weapons have any place in public hands. I would like to see guns treated like cars. You can ave as many as you want but they all need to be registered. You should not be able to buy one with out registering the weapon. The weapon should be brought into an inspection site on a regular basis (like car inspections) to prove that you still own the weapon. When you sell a weapon you should be required to transfer title (just like a car). If the weapon is stolen, you need to declare the gun as stolen. I think this would cut down on guns being sold to people who should not have them with out a paper trail.

 

[Ms Tree]

Mother kills 3 children and self

 

[delldude]

every day and no one seems care.

I do not know what the answer is. Banning all weapons in unrealistic. I do not think automatic weapons have any place in public hands. I would like to see guns treated like cars. You can ave as many as you want but they all need to be registered. You should not be able to buy one with out registering the weapon. The weapon should be brought into an inspection site on a regular basis (like car inspections) to prove that you still own the weapon. When you sell a weapon you should be required to transfer title (just like a car). If the weapon is stolen, you need to declare the gun as stolen. I think this would cut down on guns being sold to people who should not have them with out a paper trail.

And you got jerked when I asked you if you lived in a cave.....

First off:

Loughner did not use an automatic weapon........he used a semi-automatic.
Civilians can own fully automatic weapons but its costly and does require detailed background checks just like a normal gun transaction.

Second:

Since Johnny Kennedy was taken out by a left wing radical Marxist, regulations were made to keep firearms out of peoples hands who were/are a risk to society. Works pretty good , wouldn't you agree?

Gun registration has been going on at the state level for quite sometime now. Like probably 30-40 years. Unless of course you buy one from your local member of crime incorporated and are making an illegal purchase which isn't for legitimate use probably because you can't get one legally.
Gun registration for the most part is a ruse. Most who purchase firearms legally abide by the law. Registration tells your government who has what and lives where when they try to enact confiscation.

I do not think automatic weapons have any place in public hands.

You are absolutely right.....stick with revolvers.

 

[delldude]

Mother kills 3 children and self

Man with knife, pit bull shot by deputy in Arcadia

 

[Ms Tree]

And you got jerked when I asked you if you lived in a cave.....

First off:

Loughner did not use an automatic weapon........he used a semi-automatic.
Civilians can own fully automatic weapons but its costly and does require detailed background checks just like a normal gun transaction.

Second:

Since Johnny Kennedy was taken out by a left wing radical Marxist, regulations were made to keep firearms out of peoples hands who were/are a risk to society. Works pretty good , wouldn't you agree?

Gun registration has been going on at the state level for quite sometime now. Like probably 30-40 years. Unless of course you buy one from your local member of crime incorporated and are making an illegal purchase which isn't for legitimate use probably because you can't get one legally.
Gun registration for the most part is a ruse. Most who purchase firearms legally abide by the law. Registration tells your government who has what and lives where when they try to enact confiscation.



You are absolutely right.....stick with revolvers.

I never even mentioned Loughner. I just don't think there is a justifiable reason to own automatic weapons back ground check or not.

No I do not agree and there are about 15,000 people a year who would also disagree. I guess you could say it works well if you assume that without the system there would be 30,000 a year dead but so me that is like saying it's better to have Colon cancer as opposed to lung cancer. Odds are you will die either way.

I know registration has been going on for quite some time but I think it is a joke the way it is presently implemented. I can buy a gun from you and no one would know. As far as I am aware, there is no paper work that you are required to fill out that shows you sold it and nothing I need to fill out to show I bought it. I believe that if you were on the hook for the gun just like you are on the hook for your car, you are going to make dam sure you file the title transfer for the gun just like you do the car.

Given the culture of this country I believe the odds of the Fed trying to confiscate your guns is less likely than you winning the lotto, getting bit by a shark and getting hit by lighting all in one day. Personally I think it is a week argument to avoid any type of responsibility on gun ownership. Fifteen thousand people are dead due to guns every year. What is your idea to fix the problem?

 

[delldude]

I sell you my legally registered gun out the back door and you go wack somebody, from the police car, he runs a check and next stop is my house.

Registration isn't the issue. Its people with supposed instability issues obtaining firearms and prior police contact and other issues and that not getting entered into the database for background checks. Did you see the Sheriff out there tap dancing all around the issue? It was everyone's fault but his department.

Like I said before.....People die from lots of other things self inflicted or by accident.
Gun deaths and preventing them are a hard pill to swallow. Eliminate guns totally if realistically possible and homicide would continue.

As to the GCA of 1968 - I was being very sarcastic.

Without big time intrusions into our privacy I don't see much of chance of change, do you?

How much of your rights are you willing to give away?

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty

Ben Franklin

 

[Ms Tree]

I agree that a back ground check is only as good as the data in the system and that definitely needs to be addressed. I disagree about he effectiveness of registration similar to that of a car. If I want to sell a gun to you, we both go down to our local gun store, fill out the paper work, pay the title transfer fee, and complete the transaction.

Freedoms are not absolute. There are limitations. There are compromises that must be made. What about the freedom of the 15,000 people killed each year? Should they not have been offered the freedom to live? If you do not like my idea, fine. What is yours to fix the problem?

 

[delldude]

I agree that a back ground check is only as good as the data in the system and that definitely needs to be addressed. I disagree about he effectiveness of registration similar to that of a car. If I want to sell a gun to you, we both go down to our local gun store, fill out the paper work, pay the title transfer fee, and complete the transaction.

That's how you do it now.


Freedoms are not absolute. There are limitations. There are compromises that must be made. What about the freedom of the 15,000 people killed each year? Should they not have been offered the freedom to live? If you do not like my idea, fine. What is yours to fix the problem?



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty

Murder/Homicide whatever you want to call it has been part of society since Adam and Eve.
Humankind is the problem.....Firearms are only a technological advancement.

 

[Ms Tree]

I was under the impression that you could give me $50 and that was all fhere was too it. No title transfer, no back ground check. Nothing.

 

[Ms Tree]

I did a bit a research and the way you said it is done is definitely not the way we do it here in TX. TX does not require registration of guns. Nor do I need a permit or license to be able to own a gun. The only thing TX requires is that you be over 18 and have a pulse. You can give me $50 ad I can give you a gun. No one else need know about it. If the state can prove I knew you were going to use the gun for a nefarious purpose, I will be in trouble but how am I going to know that and how would they prove it.

I for got what state you said you lived in but this Wiki site breaks down all states The TX description coincides with other info I have found.

US gun laws.

This policy strikes me as quite inadequate (to say the least)

Yes we are violent society. That is no reason to sit idlly by while thousand die. That is why we have a COTUS and laws that help protect people. To say we are violent and that sh!t happens is a cop out in my opinion.

 

[delldude]

I was under the impression that you could give me $50 and that was all fhere was too it. No title transfer, no back ground check. Nothing.

Not where I live.............Gun registration laws will very from state to state.

Here's a wiki

Registration, like I said doesn't accomplish much other than tell the fed where to go to collect who has what. So registration really doesn't matter or accomplish much, does it? Its background checks that do and all states are required as far as I know.

Background checks are the core of the debate. Here's some info regarding that.

FBI

 

[Ms Tree]

Not where I live.............Gun registration laws will very from state to state.

Here's a wiki

Registration, like I said doesn't accomplish much other than tell the fed where to go to collect who has what. So registration really doesn't matter or accomplish much, does it? Its background checks that do and all states are required as far as I know.

Background checks are the core of the debate. Here's some info regarding that.

FBI

I am not sure how you can say that.

You buy a gun at a dealer. You have a back ground check and walk away. You decided you don't want the gun any more so you put a ad in CL or what ever. I'm up to no good and need a gun. I cruise the CL ads and see a gun I like being sod by a Mr Dell. Cool. I go over with cash in hand and walk away with a gun. No permit, no license, no back ground check. A few days later I kill a cop in a robbery.

Yes you could argue that I would have found a gun in another manner and that may very well be so. How ever if everyone has to be accountable for their guns that is going to be far more difficult.

Given the culture in this country and the amount of weapons in the country the likely hood of the Feds coming to you home asking for your guns is less than you winning the lottery, getting bit by a shark and struck by lighting all in the same day. I believe that is a hollow argument. There is no need for 15,000 people a year to die due to fire arms.

 

[delldude]

I am not sure how you can say that.

You buy a gun at a dealer. You have a back ground check and walk away. You decided you don't want the gun any more so you put a ad in CL or what ever. I'm up to no good and need a gun. I cruise the CL ads and see a gun I like being sod by a Mr Dell. Cool. I go over with cash in hand and walk away with a gun. No permit, no license, no back ground check. A few days later I kill a cop in a robbery.

Yes you could argue that I would have found a gun in another manner and that may very well be so. How ever if everyone has to be accountable for their guns that is going to be far more difficult.

Given the culture in this country and the amount of weapons in the country the likely hood of the Feds coming to you home asking for your guns is less than you winning the lottery, getting bit by a shark and struck by lighting all in the same day. I believe that is a hollow argument. There is no need for 15,000 people a year to die due to fire arms.

So you believe if you buy a gun and a background check is done and you can receive said gun you'd be dumb enough to sell to some clown? I suppose there's absolutely no way in hell when they run that background check that there was never some notation of the firearm serial number and absolutely no record ever recorded, Huh?
Who we dealing with here? FBI?

Firearm confiscation could happen in the blink of an eye.....national disaster? Suspend the Constitution??

Already happened in New Orleans.....so tell me about it.

You do realize, registration or not, there is a paper trail of your transaction with the gun dealer required at point of sale by ATF?

So much for no registration.

 

[delldude]

18 U.S.C. 923(g)(1)(A): RECORDS REQUIRED
18 U.S.C. 922(B)(5): RECORDS REQUIRED
27 CFR 478.22: ALTERNATE METHODS OR PROCEDURES
27 CFR 478.121: RECORDS REQUIRED
27 CFR 478.124: FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD
27 CFR 479.26: ALTERNATE METHODS OR PROCEDURES
27 CFR 479.131: RECORDS REQUIRED
Pursuant to 27 CFR 478.22 and 479.26, ATF authorizes an alternate method or
procedure from the provisions of 27 CFR 478.121, 478.124, and 479.131 that require
licensees to complete ATF Form 4473 (5300.9), Firearms Transaction Record Part I –
Over-the-Counter, by handwriting the information. ATF authorizes licensees to use an
electronic version of Form 4473, as an alternate method or procedure, provided all of the
requirements stated in this ruling are met.

ATF Rul. 2008-3
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, provides, in part, that each
licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, and licensed dealer (licensees) must maintain
records of sale or other disposition of firearms at their place of business for such period,
and in such form, as the Attorney General may by regulations prescribe. With certain
exceptions, a licensee may not sell or otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently, of
any firearm to any person, other than another licensee, unless the licensee records the
transaction on a Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473 (5300.9). The answers on
Form 4473 must be handwritten, and contain the information specified by Title 27, Code
of Federal Regulations (CFR), section 478.124.

More

Looks like state registration is a moot point.

 

[Ms Tree]

TX law does not require any thing for a person to person sale. I just did a search and the first site I found was this one. The guns in TX do not have a paper trail after the original buyer.

Classified adds

I'll give you the MSY thing.

So what's the answer? I don't accept the status quo.