Company Match of Prefunding Refund

[Thomas Paine]

"Judge Lane stated the issue in dispute is whether the retiree rights have vested. If the rights have vested under federal law, that could prevent American from unilaterally changing the benefits."

Vested-fully and unconditionally guaranteed as a legal right, benefit, or privilege.

So what were the retirees told when they bought into Prefunding? Its different than a plan they paid nothing into.

Becoming more interesting that's for sure.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Has any  decision by the judge been issued yet?

 

[NYer]

Has any  decision by the judge been issued yet?

 
Probably won't hear anything until close to, or after, the last Equity Distribution.

 

[AANOTOK]

...and just what will we hear??

 

[NYer]

...and just what will we hear??

That either the Judge has granted the airlines' argument that they can stop the retiree medical benefit or that in order for the airline to stop the benefit they would need to do it through a hearing.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

That either the Judge has granted the airlines' argument that they can stop the retiree medical benefit or that in order for the airline to stop the benefit they would need to do it through a hearing.

 
NYer
 
Judge Lane said that his decision is imminent, and you say that we should hear by the close or after the last equity distribution. Shouldn't we have heard that we will recieve this last allotment soon. Shouldn't the Committee have told us that the total number of shares we will get, that this last issue is going to far less than the idea we had in the beginning?
 
It is my opinion that AA is going to terminate the retiree medical shift the payments to them and find a way to keep the Prefund match.
 The 14% the TWU is keeping from us to fight the battle against the legal actions brought against them, is just a way for them to keep our money.
Is this going to drag out so long that we the employees will just say "OH Well they screwed us again what are we to do. Both AA and the TWU have found so many ways over all the yrs to take from us isn't it time to say we have had enough.
 
If the plan for most has vested does that mean they get to keep the medical?  Then shouldn't the rest of us have that choice as well, if our account vested? shouldn't someone be held accountable for this or is it that we the AA employees just bend over and take it again?

 

[WeAAsles]

NYer
 
Judge Lane said that his decision is imminent, and you say that we should hear by the close or after the last equity distribution. Shouldn't we have heard that we will recieve this last allotment soon. Shouldn't the Committee have told us that the total number of shares we will get, that this last issue is going to far less than the idea we had in the beginning?
 
It is my opinion that AA is going to terminate the retiree medical shift the payments to them and find a way to keep the Prefund match.
 The 14% the TWU is keeping from us to fight the battle against the legal actions brought against them, is just a way for them to keep our money.
Is this going to drag out so long that we the employees will just say "OH Well they screwed us again what are we to do. Both AA and the TWU have found so many ways over all the yrs to take from us isn't it time to say we have had enough.
 
If the plan for most has vested does that mean they get to keep the medical?  Then shouldn't the rest of us have that choice as well, if our account vested? shouldn't someone be held accountable for this or is it that we the AA employees just bend over and take it again?

Wow that's one glass half empty world you must live in. I'm curious. If everything you just said about the company and the union stealing more from us as you say winds up being completely wrong, will you come back on here and admit you were wrong?

Will you be honest enough to admit it publicly on here for the sake of your credibility?

 

[Vortilon]

Wow that's one glass half empty world you must live in. I'm curious. If everything you just said about the company and the union stealing more from us as you say winds up being completely wrong, will you come back on here and admit you were wrong?

Will you be honest enough to admit it publicly on here for the sake of your credibility?
 
Really?  What world have you been living in?  It's been my experience with the TWU as well.  I suggest you compare our AMFA copied contract from 2001 - 2002, to the contract we are living under now.  Let that be a reminder as to the extent of the screwing we have taken!  Excuse any AMT at AA for being a little jaded after all the BS we have been fed from not only management, but our international union representation as well.  I don't want to leave out the cadre of Local 514s ignorant elected officials over the last 12 years either.  They all have contributed to ruining our pay and benefits.  What they have done to the AMTs at AA, will not be forgotten so easy.
 
Time to remove your rose colored glasses!  AMFA in Miami is only echoing what I am hearing everyday at the terminal ready rooms or at the hangar.    Very few AMTs share your enthusiasm for a good outcome, and really - why would they?
I really doubt AMFA in Miami will have to consider admitting he was wrong - nice try to segue off topic though.

 

[NYer]

 
NYer
 
Judge Lane said that his decision is imminent, and you say that we should hear by the close or after the last equity distribution. Shouldn't we have heard that we will recieve this last allotment soon. Shouldn't the Committee have told us that the total number of shares we will get, that this last issue is going to far less than the idea we had in the beginning? --What we get at the final distribution will depend on the value of the shares. Equity is given out in order to try and return the lost value incurred in the bankruptcy. The total value we receive in shares is determined by the stock price by day 120.
 
It is my opinion that AA is going to terminate the retiree medical shift the payments to them and find a way to keep the Prefund match. --If they take away the retiree medical from the retiree's it would make them Creditors. As Creditors they would be entitled to make a claim for equity like the rest of the Creditors. In order to avoid that, the decision to eliminate their benefit will come after the Equity is distributed so they have nothing to make a claim against.
 
 The 14% the TWU is keeping from us to fight the battle against the legal actions brought against them, is just a way for them to keep our money.
Is this going to drag out so long that we the employees will just say "OH Well they screwed us again what are we to do. Both AA and the TWU have found so many ways over all the yrs to take from us isn't it time to say we have had enough. --The 14% is being held in a Trust and under the guidance of the Judge Orrick. It has been stipulated that a maximum of 4% is to be used for fees and expenses, while the remaining 10% is for the exclusive use to pay the plaintiffs (Early Out) in the event they win their suit. (unlikely). If the 14% wasn't held, the plaintiffs were looking to file an injunction which would have prevented any further distributions until this issue was settled. The lawyers for the TWU are trying to get the case dismissed and have filed papers with that request.
 
If the plan for most has vested does that mean they get to keep the medical?  Then shouldn't the rest of us have that choice as well, if our account vested? shouldn't someone be held accountable for this or is it that we the AA employees just bend over and take it again? --The only consistent thing the airline has been after since 2008 has been the Retiree Medical. It will be eliminated after the equity distribution has passed. It might be resolved by Judge Lane letting the airline just eliminate it or Judge Lane would call for a hearing in his court.

 

[WeAAsles]

 

Wow that's one glass half empty world you must live in. I'm curious. If everything you just said about the company and the union stealing more from us as you say winds up being completely wrong, will you come back on here and admit you were wrong?

Will you be honest enough to admit it publicly on here for the sake of your credibility?
 
Really?  What world have you been living in?  It's been my experience with the TWU as well.  I suggest you compare our AMFA copied contract from 2001 - 2002, to the contract we are living under now.  Let that be a reminder as to the extent of the screwing we have taken!  Excuse any AMT at AA for being a little jaded after all the BS we have been fed from not only management, but our international union representation as well.  I don't want to leave out the cadre of Local 514s ignorant elected officials over the last 12 years either.  They all have contributed to ruining our pay and benefits.  What they have done to the AMTs at AA, will not be forgotten so easy.
 
Time to remove your rose colored glasses!  AMFA in Miami is only echoing what I am hearing everyday at the terminal ready rooms or at the hangar.    Very few AMTs share your enthusiasm for a good outcome, and really - why would they?
I really doubt AMFA in Miami will have to consider admitting he was wrong - nice try to segue off topic though.

 

I'm sorry, what was I thinking. You're right that the Union has screwed us. It's certainly not Deregulation, Competition from low cost carriers, Competition from Major carriers, Oil Prices, Bad economies and global economic collapse, Internet pricing, Too many seats chasing too few passengers, Fare wars, SARS, 9/11, Terrorist attacks, Poor management decisions and of course Bankruptcy laws that favor the creditors over the workers.

I'm sure that I'm leaving out a few?

Nope it was the TWU and ALL those Unions fault. TWU, IAM, IBT, CWA, APA, APFA, AFA, USPA, ILGWU, and let's not leave out the darling of them all AMFA. They really screwed those NWA people didn't they?

Hey maybe we should agree and listen to this guy? What do you think?

"Unions do not create and protect jobs; they destroy them."

http://airlinesafety.com/unions/LaborCostsStupid.htm

 

[Vortilon]

I'm sorry, what was I thinking. You're right that the Union has screwed us. It's certainly not Deregulation, Competition from low cost carriers, Competition from Major carriers, Oil Prices, Bad economies and global economic collapse, Internet pricing, Too many seats chasing too few passengers, Fare wars, SARS, 9/11, Terrorist attacks, Poor management decisions and of course Bankruptcy laws that favor the creditors over the workers.

I'm sure that I'm leaving out a few?

Nope it was the TWU and ALL those Unions fault. TWU, IAM, IBT, CWA, APA, APFA, AFA, USPA, ILGWU, and let's not leave out the darling of them all AMFA. They really screwed those NWA people didn't they?

Hey maybe we should agree and listen to this guy? What do you think?

"Unions do not create and protect jobs; they destroy them."

http://airlinesafety.com/unions/LaborCostsStupid.htm
 
 
As if we hadn't considered all the likely excuses. 

 

[WeAAsles]

 

I'm sorry, what was I thinking. You're right that the Union has screwed us. It's certainly not Deregulation, Competition from low cost carriers, Competition from Major carriers, Oil Prices, Bad economies and global economic collapse, Internet pricing, Too many seats chasing too few passengers, Fare wars, SARS, 9/11, Terrorist attacks, Poor management decisions and of course Bankruptcy laws that favor the creditors over the workers.

I'm sure that I'm leaving out a few?

Nope it was the TWU and ALL those Unions fault. TWU, IAM, IBT, CWA, APA, APFA, AFA, USPA, ILGWU, and let's not leave out the darling of them all AMFA. They really screwed those NWA people didn't they?

Hey maybe we should agree and listen to this guy? What do you think?

"Unions do not create and protect jobs; they destroy them."

http://airlinesafety.com/unions/LaborCostsStupid.htm
 
 
As if we hadn't considered all the likely excuses. 

 

Deregulation, Competition from low cost carriers, Competition from Major carriers, Oil Prices, Bad economies and global economic collapse, Internet pricing, Too many seats chasing too few passengers, Fare wars, SARS, 9/11, Terrorist attacks, Poor management decisions and of course Bankruptcy laws that favor the creditors over the workers.

Exactly. All just excuses. lmao.....

 

[Realityck]

I'm sorry, what was I thinking. You're right that the Union has screwed us. It's certainly not Deregulation, Competition from low cost carriers, Competition from Major carriers, Oil Prices, Bad economies and global economic collapse, Internet pricing, Too many seats chasing too few passengers, Fare wars, SARS, 9/11, Terrorist attacks, Poor management decisions and of course Bankruptcy laws that favor the creditors over the workers.

I'm sure that I'm leaving out a few?

Nope it was the TWU and ALL those Unions fault. TWU, IAM, IBT, CWA, APA, APFA, AFA, USPA, ILGWU, and let's not leave out the darling of them all AMFA. They really screwed those NWA people didn't they?

Hey maybe we should agree and listen to this guy? What do you think?

"Unions do not create and protect jobs; they destroy them."

http://airlinesafety.com/unions/LaborCostsStupid.htm

 
 
 
Also, here's a look at some of airline bankruptcy filings over the past two decades:
 
Nov. 29, 2011 — American Airlines
 
Jan 5. 2010 — Mesa Air
 
Oct. 6, 2008 — Sun Country
 
April 11, 2008 — Frontier Airlines
 
March 31, 2008 — Aloha Airlines
 
Sept. 14, 2005 — Delta Air Lines, Northwest Airlines, Comair
 
Sept. 12, 2004 — US Airways
 
Dec. 9, 2002 — United Airlines
 
Aug. 11, 2002 — US Airways
 
Jan. 10, 2001 — Trans World Airlines (TWA)
 
Feb. 26, 1998 — Pan American World Airways (Pan Am)
 
June 30, 1995 — Trans World Airlines
 
Sept. 21, 1993 — Hawaiian Airlines
 
Jan. 31, 1992 — Trans World Airlines
 
June 27, 1991 — America West Airlines
 
Jan. 18, 1991 — Eastern Air Lines
 
Jan. 8 1991 — Pan Am World Airways
 
Dec. 3, 1990 — Continental Airlines

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and hey what about all of those Third Party Vendors that the airlines are tring to contract our work out to here and around the world?

Yep I bet the US Unions are all taking money under the table from Chinese and Mexican companies to help move that along?

 

[AANOTOK]

Will all this get me my "prefunding match" back??