there were no negotiations involving the Negotiating Committees and the prefunding, those talks took place in the "High Level" negotiations where only the International, the lawyers and whomever the International may have selected sat in on, hence the lawsuit. The only people we had the opportunity to question, before Videtich had the roll call, based on 2007 headcount called was Videtich. Thats why I voiced my concerns prior to the vote and another reason why I did not agree to the language. Ask Mr Hewitt, and the Yes voters if they understood it and what it means.Realityck said:
Company Match of Prefunding Refund
- Thread starter JABORD
- Start date
Hopefully you are right and we will get the matching funds, but I dont see it as a gain that to do so the Retirees will get screwed out of Equity that will go to Horton, Parker and the shareholders instead.NYer said:
I was also there prior to the BK when the company was trying to add our matching funds to the $80 million they swindled those who paid for many years into the Supplimental Medical out of. They wanted to eliminate retiree medical for everyone under 50 and keep the matching funds outright from all those under 50. So much for your individual action theory. Then according to Videtich, they improved the offer by letting us allow the company to even take our contributions in exchange for sick time credits to buy medical coverage at four times the rate that other carriers were offering retiree medical. They were pissed when it was brought out that we were entitled to the matching funds and the only way they could get them was to convince us to give them up, which those under 50 would have back in 2010 had the contract passed. While you are correct in that the funds cant be co-mingled, same goes for the $80 million from the Supplimental that they stole, BUT they can in fact be substituted for funds that would have come from the General Funds to pay medical obligations, so in reality they still end up gaining the same result as if those funds went to the General fund.
There is no doubt that the damage done to our careers and our profession by Jim Little and Don Videtich is severe and for most of us unrecoverable. Hundreds of millions of dollars , from the uncontested swindle of the equity in the Supplimental medical, where members were told if they wanted the additional retiree medical when they retire they had to purchase it for decades before they retire, to the worst contract in the industry with low wages, no Holidays, only five sick days and less vacation than other TWU members in the same company were stolen from us and this theft was enabled by these people. their claim is they did it all to save jobs, well how does giving up vacation save jobs? If we all work more that allows the company to eliminate more workers. How does allowing the company to steal $80 million from members who paid for decades for Supplimental retiree medical save jobs? If the other concessions saved jobs then why work with the company on productivity gains which helped the company eliminate 35% of the heads while only reducing the fleet by 30%? These productivity improvements allowed the company to eliminate even more jobs on top of those eliminated by the fleet reduction.
You have stated on here several times that I should know what the language means, that I should have asked the company to explain it, and you are correct, but the fact is that there were no negotiations between the negotiating committees and the company on prefunding, we were not invited to those talks, we could only discuss this with the committee, so John Hewitt would have been privy to my concerns, but he voted YES anyway. Like I've said before, there were seven A&P mechanics in Negotiations, six of them voted against bringing this unwritten, unclear abomination of a deal back to the members, we were outvoted by people who either were not A&Ps and in some cases were not even mechanics.
The fact is if not for Jim Fudge and myself most members would never have even known about the fact they were entitled to the matching funds as the Prefunding plan language was not included in the contract, some had planned on keeping it that way, I know management was pissed when it came out. They nearly got away with it in 2010.
NYer
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2010
- 4,167
- 905
Thomas Paine said:
The Retiree Medical issue is not "outside" the bankruptcy process. It is still an issue within the bankruptcy case and will be handled under an "Adversarial Proceeding" instead of an 1114.
Any issues related to the Retiree's would need to be addressed to the Creditors Committee and they won't have a case because they still have their coverage. After that coverage is eliminated they will get their funds, plus the portion of the match.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
Didn't happen to the Pilots. You are just making excuses because of your own failures to stand up for your rights.700UW said:
IIRC, retirees who have been collecting benefits since 2012 , when they had to leave in order to get benefits, will not get any match whatsoever, and they lose 10% of their contribution for each year they were on the plan. So the most any retiree on the plan would see is 80% of their own contributions and nothing from the match. Any retiree who has been collecting benefits for ten years gets nothing since all of their contributions will have gone to the company, if they had been kept within the process they would likely have had a claim towards the remaining value of the plan they purchased. The plan was capped at $50,000, so if I was retired and only collected $10k in benefits I could claim that I was losing $40K, and put in a claim for equity based on the $40k. Lets see if they get to claim anything when the equity committee has already distributed all the equity and this thing gets cast into the "miscellaneous" wastebasket to be settled after BK.NYer said:
While I think those who are suing us to take equity from us after getting their $40,000 and some helping the company stick us with by far the worst deal in the industry, are wrong, I also think its wrong how the courts , the equity committee and the company are conspiring to screw the Retirees.
Ok that happened ten years ago, before you even knew they had a gun and you didn't because you guys rolled over and abandoned the strike option prior to the NWA-AFA decision where Airline Unions were not permitted to strike when contracts are annulled in BK, the Continental pilots did strike in 1983. What has the IAM done to disarm the company or at least make sure that we have our own gun?700UW said:
As you admit US did it twice. Now with us merging you can say they did it three times. So what is the IAM doing about it?
AA has established that there is no need for an Air Carrier to prove financial distress in order to use BK to not only void but get to impose new contracts on labor. Only Air Carriers can do this. They went in with $5billion came out with $10, kept all their orders for new planes intact and even provided shareholders with equity. Everyone except labor was made whole. Ther is nothing stopping them from doing it again, and again, and again.
I have a fix, and its pretty simple. Get the AFL-CIO and all their political might behind a move to make a minor change to Sect 1167 of Chapter 11.
All we have to do is add the words "sections I and II" to sect 1167 and we would have the same protections as every other creditor in BK, the same protections as everyone else under the RLA. Not so complicated is it? But it would forever erase your excuse why you say we cant fight in BK. Its much easier to hide behind an unfair ruling than to fight isn't it?
What say you?
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
- 2,242
I guess we will have an answer soon!
American retirees may soon know the fate of their medical benefits
American retirees may soon know the fate of their medical benefits
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
- 2,242
More back and forth...and unlike what Reality and NYer say, I do not believe it is written in stone that we shall receive our prefunding match. I do believe there is a better chance of us getting screwed than actually getting the match.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/03/we-have-more-details-on-court-discussion-of-american-airlines-retiree-benefits.html/
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/03/we-have-more-details-on-court-discussion-of-american-airlines-retiree-benefits.html/
chris perry
Veteran
- Sep 17, 2008
- 544
- 118
I have a copy of the original letter it clearly states it will be put in a trust protected from bankruptcy just like Carty's pension.I can scan it in a few days .I will have to dig it out of my files.
