Company Match of Prefunding Refund

[NYer]

 
Conspiracy theory out of the TWU?  Seems to me, there is good reason to entertain just about any possibility that screws the membership - the TWU could have cooked up. 

 
Uh-huh...So the process is that the TWU is automatically screwing everyone and we must be creative to find out how?

 

[Vortilon]

 
Uh-huh...So the process is that the TWU is automatically screwing everyone and we must be creative to find out how?

 
 
Look, I don't know where you've been; however, if you have to have it explained to you - would I be wrong by suspecting you as a TWU placed BB troll?  Any AMT that has frequented this BB over the years, would be fairly well versed on the TWUs transgressions against primarily line AMTs.  Now the deception in Tulsa.  You want to know how to find out how the TWU screwed the AMTs?  Being that it's New Years Day, I will use that as an example.  One of our 5 paid holidays at time and a half.  That is down from 10 paid holidays at double time and a half.  Worst in the industry, bar none!  Now I could go on and on about all the other failings of the TWU including: Sick pay & accrual, Vacation weeks lost, longevity pay gone, shift differential gone, uniforms cleaned gone, no more PV days... known as DAT days at most other airlines, they even gave up the $12,500.00 moving payment for people being displaced.  If you work here, you already found out!

 

[MetalMover]

 
If Bob would have taken that time to actually read the Disclosure Statement from the Plan of Reorganization he would have been where the Creditors are not eager to eliminate the Retiree Medical for current retiree's in order to not open the door for them to make a claim against the Equity. It is more to the liking of the Creditors to have the Equity Distributed before the Retiree Medical is eliminated which would allow the money for the Match payouts to be released from the Trust which currently holds those funds.
 
It is just much easier to create another conspiracy theory.

Ok, AA is OUT OF BANKRUPTCY!
What is the status NOW of the prefunding and what is the TWU's CURRENT position on the issue. The 1114 COMMITTEE IS STILL IN EFFECT. Who is acing on behalf of active members?

 

[AANOTOK]

Ok, AA is OUT OF BANKRUPTCY!
What is the status NOW of the prefunding and what is the TWU's CURRENT position on the issue. The 1114 COMMITTEE IS STILL IN EFFECT. Who is acing on behalf of active members?

Same ol' same ol', keeping it's members in the dark!

 

[bob@las-AA]

This is my take on the pre-funding. If everyone including the ticket-agents up to now have received the amount the put in, including the earnings for holding that amount until you retire, that account should be ZERO dollars. The moneys they promised was done on nothing more than a hand shake deal. Besides… where would the money come from??? Not from the underfunded retirement account, that would be agents the law!! So in my opinion only….dont hold your hand on your posterior waiting for a check!  

 

[NYer]

 
 
Look, I don't know where you've been; however, if you have to have it explained to you - would I be wrong by suspecting you as a TWU placed BB troll?  Any AMT that has frequented this BB over the years, would be fairly well versed on the TWUs transgressions against primarily line AMTs.  Now the deception in Tulsa.  You want to know how to find out how the TWU screwed the AMTs?  Being that it's New Years Day, I will use that as an example.  One of our 5 paid holidays at time and a half.  That is down from 10 paid holidays at double time and a half.  Worst in the industry, bar none!  Now I could go on and on about all the other failings of the TWU including: Sick pay & accrual, Vacation weeks lost, longevity pay gone, shift differential gone, uniforms cleaned gone, no more PV days... known as DAT days at most other airlines, they even gave up the $12,500.00 moving payment for people being displaced.  If you work here, you already found out!

 
I guess you can fix that by having the overhaul taken completely overseas which would cut jobs, but on the bright side...YOU could get more holidays, vacation and such.

 

[NYer]

Ok, AA is OUT OF BANKRUPTCY!
What is the status NOW of the prefunding and what is the TWU's CURRENT position on the issue. The 1114 COMMITTEE IS STILL IN EFFECT. Who is acing on behalf of active members?

 
The issue on the Retiree Medical is still being dealt with in an "Adversarial Proceeding" under the jurisdiction of the BK Court and Judge Sean Lane. After the Equity Distribution has been dealt with, I would venture to guess that you will see the Retiree Medical issue being dealt with. As it stands, if the Retiree Medical is eliminated, the retiree's will have the ability to place a claim for Equity. The current members of the Creditors aren't enamored to have them being awarded any Equity since it would mean that someone else would not get the percentage that has already been allocated.

 

[NYer]

 
This is my take on the pre-funding. If everyone including the ticket-agents up to now have received the amount the put in, including the earnings for holding that amount until you retire, that account should be ZERO dollars. The moneys they promised was done on nothing more than a hand shake deal. Besides… where would the money come from??? Not from the underfunded retirement account, that would be agents the law!! So in my opinion only….dont hold your hand on your posterior waiting for a check!  
 

 
The money is held in a Trust and cannot be co-mingled with other funds. The protection it was given has made it more difficult to take the funds out of that Trust and created the need for the Retiree Medical to be dissolved before the funds could be released for distribution.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
The issue on the Retiree Medical is still being dealt with in an "Adversarial Proceeding" under the jurisdiction of the BK Court and Judge Sean Lane. After the Equity Distribution has been dealt with, I would venture to guess that you will see the Retiree Medical issue being dealt with. As it stands, if the Retiree Medical is eliminated, the retiree's will have the ability to place a claim for Equity. The current members of the Creditors aren't enamored to have them being awarded any Equity since it would mean that someone else would not get the percentage that has already been allocated.

So the equity distribution will finish paying out in April (120 days)...will it be soon thereafter, or will it have to wait until all other appeals (which could take a considerable amount of time) are completed.
Also, Mr. Owens feels as though you can kiss the "match" goodbye, his opinion and interpretation of what is written. What is your take??

 

[NYer]

So the equity distribution will finish paying out in April (120 days)...will it be soon thereafter, or will it have to wait until all other appeals (which could take a considerable amount of time) are completed.
Also, Mr. Owens feels as though you can kiss the "match" goodbye, his opinion and interpretation of what is written. What is your take??

 
If you go back to 2008, the one consistent item on their wish list has been Retiree Medical. In reading the comments from the Creditors and in reading the Disclosure Statement of the Plan of Reorganization, it seems the clear the intent is to eliminate the Retiree Medical, but in a way that will not take away from anyone else. The Creditors are aware that the retiree's would be legally able to lay a claim against equity if they suffer this loss within the BK process (an adversarial proceeding is still considered part of the BK)
 
Therefore, the plan will be eliminated and the funds will be distributed as agreed to.
 
In the meantime, the current Retiree's continue to enjoy their medical coverage and as long as that is true, they can hold off in giving me my Match....but it WILL come.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

With all the other stuff we all seem to find time to chat about has anyone heard what is going on with the prefunding match money?
 
We are now two months out of BK since we as individuals can't inquire, with the court or to AA,  has the TWU?  You know the guys we all pay dues too, have they inquired to the courts, filed some type of legal brief, done anything to get us an answer one way or the other. Or has the TWU rolled over again, the company put it up on jetnet, gave the impression to those that were going to get/take the early out we would get this now WHERE IS IT?  
 
When are we going to get this money, it's money that when plan was in placed promised to each and every one of us. Where did that money go?

 

[DallasConehead]

I haven't seen an official update in a long long time. Maybe the union and the company are just hoping we will forget about it.

 

[1AA]

Or maybe the money will run out.

 

[NYer]

With all the other stuff we all seem to find time to chat about has anyone heard what is going on with the prefunding match money?
 
We are now two months out of BK since we as individuals can't inquire, with the court or to AA,  has the TWU?  You know the guys we all pay dues too, have they inquired to the courts, filed some type of legal brief, done anything to get us an answer one way or the other. Or has the TWU rolled over again, the company put it up on jetnet, gave the impression to those that were going to get/take the early out we would get this now WHERE IS IT?  
 
When are we going to get this money, it's money that when plan was in placed promised to each and every one of us. Where did that money go?

 
Before gaining access to the money for the Match, the retiree medical needs to be eliminated for those retiree's that still have that benefit. When they eliminate that benefit, as part of the bankruptcy, the retiree's become Creditors....and what do creditors get? They can lay a claim for Equity, like all the other creditors.
 
In order to avoid giving them anything, everyone will wait until the equity has been distributed in which case there is nothing to lay claim to.
 
Simple.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Before gaining access to the money for the Match, the retiree medical needs to be eliminated for those retiree's that still have that benefit. When they eliminate that benefit, as part of the bankruptcy, the retiree's become Creditors....and what do creditors get? They can lay a claim for Equity, like all the other creditors.
 
In order to avoid giving them anything, everyone will wait until the equity has been distributed in which case there is nothing to lay claim to.
 
Simple.

Not so simple.

So they are going to terminate the plan outside of BK, so they can screw the retirees out of equity they should get, but, will that be considered "successful resolution of the 1114 process"? Will the company turn around and try and screw us by claiming that since it was not resolved through the 1114 process and they paid an extra two years towards their benefits that they are entitled to our matching funds?

So in the end the retirees get screwed out of equity and the rest of us could also get screwed out of the other half of our funds?

The retirees should get equity, equity thats seperate from our equity since it was not included in the settlement, but the fact is that AA made a deal with them that they broke. It goes without saying that we should get the matching funds.

The retirees should sue the Judge, the Company and Jim Little personally for swindling them and keeping their true intentions secret. This would certianly have more merit than those who took the Early out going for our equity.