Company Happy With 1st Airbus.

[ktflyhome]

Mophar: My sentiments, exactly. I was having a very similar conversation about this same thing just yesterday. No one in the Airline Industry was involved, so it is happening to all middle-class Americans.

The sad thing is, Corporate Greed is trying to keep us all in a little box where we feel we have no where to go nor any hopes of getting there. What really are we working for anymore and what is the future of our children and what is going to be this generations legacy? The American working folk need to maintain a strong backbone and not give in. :angry:

 

[diogenes]

Piney, it goes a little deeper than that.

I've always thought sport is an apt metaphor for American life - we all watch; poor, rich, young, old, boy, girl, etc.

Who'da thunk, just a few years ago, the UNC TarHeels would miss the trip to the NCAA tourney, while the UNC Seahawks went? Who'da thought it could happen two years in a row? They'd have come after you with a butterfly net and strait jacket.

How'd it happen? The TarHeels were in a superior position - better staffing, facilities, profile for recruitment, etc.

Because there are five men per team on the floor. Because the basket is ten feet tall at both ends of the court. Because the zebras call it even-steven.

Because the RULES are the same for everybody.

Because everybody has equitable ACCESS to resources.

I am NOT interested in equal outcomes - The Soviet Union proved Marx and Engels wrong on that. Plus, it flies in the face of justice, and good ol' common sense.

On the other hand, I am NOT interested in a one-sided game, where the fix is already in, either.

How far would Bush have gone if his father had been the Midland dogcatcher? I mean, the dude was born on third base, and acting like he hit a triple.

 

[firstamendment]

I have flown on ac 700. The only credit I will give the group from Alabama is that they know how to pretty up the interiors. Perhaps we should have our guys do the heavy work and leave the decorating to the "Bama boys. No offense, but our inhouse guys know nothing about putting those interiors back in without doing it half ass. On the flip side, I was involved in the emergency landing shortly after the return of this a/c and was NOT impressed with the heavy (real maint.) work done on the airplane...tons of write ups, endangering my life? I'll take a US good ol boy working on my plane anyday.

 

[sentrido]

4. Aren't we to blame for forcing companies to look to India as our education system teeters on the brink and fails to deliver the skill sets required in the new milenium?

As far as high skilled labor(engineering/IT)We have the skill sets in the US. just not for 10 - 20K a year.

 

[756pro]

4. Aren't we to blame for forcing companies to look to India as our education system teeters on the brink and fails to deliver the skill sets required in the new milenium?

As far as high skilled labor(engineering/IT)We have the skill sets in the US. just not for 10 - 20K a year.

Can you say, Dave sold us out with outsourcing in Chinese?


你能够说，戴维卖给 我们的 在中国人中拿出外购？

Well not far from there anyway, is where Dave wants our work to go. Right on the equator and 100 degrees longitude

 

[pitguy]

I have flown on ac 700. The only credit I will give the group from Alabama is that they know how to pretty up the interiors. Perhaps we should have our guys do the heavy work and leave the decorating to the "Bama boys. No offense, but our inhouse guys know nothing about putting those interiors back in without doing it half ass. On the flip side, I was involved in the emergency landing shortly after the return of this a/c and was NOT impressed with the heavy (real maint.) work done on the airplane...tons of write ups, endangering my life? I'll take a US good ol boy working on my plane anyday.

Usually you can blame management for that. One for being understaffed and second is they will not leave the plane in the hanger long enough to do the interiors properly. I can assure you the guys doing the work desire to have it all work done safely and to be done well, including the interiors. I mechanic can try to hold an aircraft on the ground over a safety issue, but they can not keep it from flying over a interior non-safety issue. They can grip about it, but the supervisor and/or manager will tell them to send the plane out.

 

[usfliboi]

Who really cares about the specifics of 700UW!

A-O-G was spot on in his assesment of why WN has been successful in the outsourcing area and conversely why US Airways customers (ME!) are in potential danger! Quality Control Policies & Procedures are in place and ENFORCED at WN and appear to be non existant at US.

I know virtually nothing about A/C repair except what AOG and others have taught me. BUT, I do know the outsourcing game very well from another industry and I will tell you point blank that unless you sit there with a whip and a chair, the outsourcing provider will cut EVERY corner they can and that goes back to exactly what AOG said regarding WN's success.

AOG was IMO right on on the rest of the post about working smarter not harder and the challenges ALL legacy carriers face. His assessment of why US is so deep in the financial soup is also extremely on point.

Piney ! Dont forget CAL they also farm out their maint!

usfliboi,


I suggest that you stop defending their stupidity (managements)..and go grab yourself a copy of Gordon Bethune's book called "Worst to First"

From day one...Gordon was on a crusade to examine every aspect of CAL as a company....and the primary focus was to find complete accountabilty of ever nickle and dime that is and was spent. Those in the leadership ranks that could not provide accurate figures ..or gave him "ball park" figures were shown the door.

Lets also remember that Gordon is a man with a "Maintenance" background going back to his youth in the U.S. Navy...and he later ran the CLT Base Maintenance program for Piedmont. So by simply conecting the dots of his background..and his ferver for accountability..I'm confident as to why CO has a sound relationship with 3rd party maintenance. I also know that it's not as flawless or seemless as you would like to portray either. Anytime you trust someone else with your property and supporting inventory ..it will never be treated with the same care or respect as you yourself would treat these things.

Simply put..It's great people doing the right things in house....Cuz they all have a license involved in doing so..and first and foremost pride in their work. The fact that they themselves or thier combined famalies may be riding that plane in the future only magnifies and compounds the resolve to get it right...not just right now...as the flaws with 700UW has proven in stones what can happen , when right now takes presidence over Right in the aspect of correct and safe.

You really need to stop pulling smart little comebacks ou of your posterior ..and educate yourself as to what's taking place where ..and why. Your fanny just may be hanging in the critical balance along the way too? Then you won't have time to say how wrong you are or were. Think about it !!!

Excuse me? Where was i wrong? The fact is CAL does farm out maint. did I say 100 %? You guys make me laugh with "your facts" bit. The trruth hurts its obvious because you cant face it . I think you dont and wouldnt want Gordon here> Hed be doing the same thing.

 

[pitguy]

Sounding flaky to me.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Your EXCUSED !!....and you were wrong by painting things in a very broad stroke...when in fact you were only 35% right .

You may not be aware of this...but U already outsources enough to match such figures already....just excluding actual "airframe" overhauls at present.

Your version of facts give us a big laugh too amigo...We post things that you cannot dispute...and you reply with blind 35% shots that you hope someone , anyone beyond yourself , USA320Pilot and the likes of the CCY Shills that post and lurk here hope others will accept as the truth.

Just be honest..You are in fear of life without U ?.or you think you have some kind of special fanny to save?..and will gladly accept a lifeline of any kind at anyones expense but your own?

Well let me give you a real clue here. The IAM membership is just as dedicated to U surviving as you profess to be..however , if that survival means working for nothing...saying Good-Bye to more of our dedicated friends....and allowing of a "Rubber Stamp" for U to contract sub-standard aircraft maintenance? I strongly suggest you get your resume out in mass right now.

"I think you don't want Gordon here , hed be doing the same thing" OK...he would already have a figure close to the 35% that he has at CO right now. what part of that would disturb anyone here?

I would also be working for someone who has proven himself of being capable of turning a failing airline around...and he appreciates and rewards his workforce for what they do , Again , What part of that would anyone have a problem with?

I would be working for someone who commands the only legacy carrier posting in the black this quarter as opposed to the blood red...and he does not bombard his labor force with increased negative prognostications and threats. Gee...that sounds like a slice of heaven to me. Too damn bad they aren't hiring Huh?

Got any more Gems you care to share?....after the night I had , I can use a good laugh. Maybe you can offer Dave another slice of your paycheck..just maybe I wouldn't have to beg , borrow and steal to keep what we have flying then ???

 

[TDR1502C]

Here's a little gem from the past. Try reading between the lines, and ponder what must have happened before the company and the pilots made nice for the public.

=====================================================
Published Thursday, March 30, 2000

Northwest quells pilot worries about outside repair shops
Tony Kennedy / Star Tribune

A meeting Wednesday between top Northwest Airlines executives and pilots union safety officials apparently erased pilots' concerns about the safety of aircraft maintenance done by outside vendors.

The meeting was prompted by a strongly worded complaint letter the union sent last month, which cited five recent pilot reports of trouble with planes freshly returned to service from maintenance vendors in San Antonio, Seattle and Dothan, Ala.

Greg Cardis, air safety chairman for the Northwest Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), said he left Wednesday's high-level meeting satisfied that there is no chronic problem with Northwest's system of hiring government-certified independent repair stations for jobs not assigned to the airline's own mechanics.

"Our concerns have been addressed," Cardis said. "In the end, we don't see it as a system problem. The data that we were provided shows that vendor maintenance is every bit as reliable as our own maintenance."

Northwest Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer Richard Anderson and other airline executives met with ALPA officials in response to a complaint letter that ALPA Central Air Safety Vice-Chair Bob Aaron sent to Northwest's senior vice president of technical operations. Referring to the five incidents, Aaron's letter said, "When viewed collectively, their mix is one for potential disaster."

Ken Hylander, Northwest's vice president for quality, reliability and engineering, said in an interview last week that he was eager to meet with the pilots to explain the incidents, which the company knew about before getting the complaint letter. Hylander said it is very important that the pilots have confidence in maintenance procedures.


Incomplete information


Cardis said after Wednesday's meeting that it was obvious the union didn't have complete information when it drafted its complaint letter. Several of the reported problems were minor, and the company already had taken appropriate corrective action, he said.

"We thought there was more to it," Cardis said. "On balance, they responded, and we really don't have any more issues."

In the most serious incident, confirmed by Northwest and scrutinized by the Federal Aviation Administration, mechanics at Pemco in Dothan, Ala., did not reconnect antenna cables that were unhooked from navigation radios during structural repairs to a Northwest DC-9. The cables, located beneath panels in the DC-9's cargo department, were left dangling when the panels were reinstalled.

When the jetliner returned to service in a non-passenger ferry flight, both navigation radios were inoperable, and the pilots relied on voice radio to get directional headings from air traffic controllers. The plane landed safely. Cardis said the navigation radios passed a pre-flight inspection because the DC-9's ground location was near a navigation radio transmitter.

"This one got the attention of the FAA," Hylander said.

Although the regulatory agency did not fine Northwest or Pemco, disciplinary action was taken against individuals who caused the error. Northwest increased its quality assurance work at Pemco, and new training ensued.

Hylander said the mechanics who disconnected the cables did not document their work, and a crew that took over for them did not know from looking at paperwork that the cables had been disconnected.

"They did not follow good maintenance procedures," Hylander said.


Maintenance procedures


The complaint letter from ALPA questioned whether Northwest had enough "hands-on oversight" of its maintenance vendors to assure decisive quality control. Cardis said after Wednesday's meeting that Northwest's system of oversight exceeds FAA requirements.

Union mechanics at Northwest took issue a couple of years ago when the airline ended a practice of assigning its own union mechanics to act as on-site inspectors at outside repair shops. Northwest's Anderson said the inspection program had been installed on a temporary basis when Northwest was adding a lot of planes to its fleet.

When Northwest's demand for airplane commissioning work subsided, management employees trained in quality assurance replaced the union inspectors.

Hylander said Northwest heavily audits prospective repair shops. Once a vendor has been authorized to do work for Northwest, the airline opens a management office on the premises. Staffing includes one full-time quality assurance representative and a site manager responsible for Northwest's overall check program at the facility. Hylander said Northwest also has managers on the scene whenever a work shift is in progress at one of its repair stations.

In addition, he said, the FAA has independent oversight of repair stations even if it doesn't maintain a full-time on-site presence at the shops. Furthermore, Northwest holds quarterly business reviews with each of its maintenance vendors.

"We constantly manage it," Hylander said. "Our on-site surveillance [at repair shops] is effectively more than in our own hangars."

Anderson said his goal is to keep Northwest's own maintenance facilities operating at full-tilt while using outside vendors to handle intermittent overloads.

He said Northwest's use of repair shops was higher than usual in 1998 and 1999, primarily because of a heavy maintenance cycle and partly because of an unofficial work slowdown by Northwest's own mechanics.

Last year, Northwest sent about a third of its maintenance work to outside vendors, Anderson said. This year, the load carried by outsiders will dwindle to about 10 percent, he said.

 

[firstamendment]

Usually you can blame management for that. One for being understaffed and second is they will not leave the plane in the hanger long enough to do the interiors properly. I can assure you the guys doing the work desire to have it all work done safely and to be done well, including the interiors. I mechanic can try to hold an aircraft on the ground over a safety issue, but they can not keep it from flying over a interior non-safety issue. They can grip about it, but the supervisor and/or manager will tell them to send the plane out.

Thanks for the info. Once again, understaffing proves to be a problem. I just remember how fresh, claen, and new that plane looked. I understand where you are coming from COMPLETELY. I just want all of the a/c's to look that great when they go thru those checks, regardless of who does it. Remember, we f/a's are the ones who have to answer the customer questions when something is either broke or duck taped.

 

[usfliboi]

Your EXCUSED !!....and you were wrong by painting things in a very broad stroke...when in fact you were only 35% right .

You may not be aware of this...but U already outsources enough to match such figures already....just excluding actual "airframe" overhauls at present.

Your version of facts give us a big laugh too amigo...We post things that you cannot dispute...and you reply with blind 35% shots that you hope someone , anyone beyond yourself , USA320Pilot and the likes of the CCY Shills that post and lurk here hope others will accept as the truth.

Just be honest..You are in fear of life without U ?.or you think you have some kind of special fanny to save?..and will gladly accept a lifeline of any kind at anyones expense but your own?

Well let me give you a real clue here. The IAM membership is just as dedicated to U surviving as you profess to be..however , if that survival means working for nothing...saying Good-Bye to more of our dedicated friends....and allowing of a "Rubber Stamp" for U to contract sub-standard aircraft maintenance? I strongly suggest you get your resume out in mass right now.

"I think you don't want Gordon here , hed be doing the same thing" OK...he would already have a figure close to the 35% that he has at CO right now. what part of that would disturb anyone here?

I would also be working for someone who has proven himself of being capable of turning a failing airline around...and he appreciates and rewards his workforce for what they do , Again , What part of that would anyone have a problem with?

I would be working for someone who commands the only legacy carrier posting in the black this quarter as opposed to the blood red...and he does not bombard his labor force with increased negative prognostications and threats. Gee...that sounds like a slice of heaven to me. Too damn bad they aren't hiring Huh?

Got any more Gems you care to share?....after the night I had , I can use a good laugh. Maybe you can offer Dave another slice of your paycheck..just maybe I wouldn't have to beg , borrow and steal to keep what we have flying then ???

Not sure what your rattling onm about. Your figures about cal maint are incorrect. For the correct fiogures log on to their employee website and if you have someone there you know who will give you password youll see the true figures. Most of what are posted on here are A persons facts and not the truth. Been here long enough and have no problem with U going away . Iam has a problem with it because without them there will be a badly damaged Iam if any Iam at all. Trust me when i tell you as in the past Iam knows the line and they will not cross it as they did the last go around when they issued " a re vote" Get the picture? Your living in a fantasy worls if you think other wise my friend. Your correct Iam wants to survive and they will do the right thing! Secondly and most importantly ! When i know something is a fact ill say it . Other wise 99% of all the post on here are opinions and opinions only included most of yours !

 

[PITbull]

USbliboi,

The only one posting on here that states a bunch of fabrication mixed in with outlandish opinion is YOU. You have no idea about the IAM or their culture. NONE, zero, nadda, zip, clue.

Hope you are polishing up your resume...cause no one is going to save your asset!

 

[756pro]

! When i know something is a fact ill say it . Other wise 99% of all the post on here are opinions and opinions only included most of yours !

Here is another opinion:

You are a management type singing their song and dance of we want your jobs so we can line our pockets while at the same time go down in history of breaking one of labor's strong unions.

You know what opinions are like and that's all you are posting, opinions.

As far as fact, I don't think so:

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Cf. question of fact, question of law.
6. after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact.
7. before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact.
8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.
[1530–40; < L factum something done, deed, n. use of neut. of factus done, ptp. of facere to DO1]
—factÆful, adj.

 

[pitguy]

usfliboi,

I have politely listened to your rants and I have come to the conclusion there may be no swaying your opinion. I am very suspect of you after reading all your post and it appears to me you may be management and have an ulterior motive behind your posting........P---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--Please remember when you rape, pillage and plunder from me you take from my children too. All I ask from any management is a little honesty. It goes a long way. Try it.

--Nothing wrong with good pay for an honest day. (Quit ripping me off Lorenzo).