Combined Travel Rules
- Thread starter Bogey
- Start date
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
AA's favorite stewardess, still trying to find a way to remain relevant after getting fired...
Someone needs to tell him that all those FA's he's talking about retired from a company that went bankrupt, and disappeared. AA v1.0 ain't around no more...
He's also still not telling the whole truth when it comes to executive retiree travel. Execs book their travel based on what's available for sale. If first is sold out, they fly coach or they don't travel. They certainly don't remove ticketed customers to make room for Don, Doug, Bob, Tom, Gerard, or anyone else current or retired who has executive privileges.
Regardless, that has nothing to do with the retiree travel priority issue. Seems to me there's no cost saving to the company by creating another tier of standby priority, and it's just something that a group of active employees are pushing.
But hey, let's just blame the company for something he can latch onto and appear relevant again, and then duck into a Squirrel! moment and bring up a tired, irrelevant narrative about executive abuses... it's a winning formula, I'm sure.
That's why the Aluminum Lady videos are still coming out on a regular basis.
Oh, wait. They're not?...
Someone needs to tell him that all those FA's he's talking about retired from a company that went bankrupt, and disappeared. AA v1.0 ain't around no more...
He's also still not telling the whole truth when it comes to executive retiree travel. Execs book their travel based on what's available for sale. If first is sold out, they fly coach or they don't travel. They certainly don't remove ticketed customers to make room for Don, Doug, Bob, Tom, Gerard, or anyone else current or retired who has executive privileges.
Regardless, that has nothing to do with the retiree travel priority issue. Seems to me there's no cost saving to the company by creating another tier of standby priority, and it's just something that a group of active employees are pushing.
But hey, let's just blame the company for something he can latch onto and appear relevant again, and then duck into a Squirrel! moment and bring up a tired, irrelevant narrative about executive abuses... it's a winning formula, I'm sure.
That's why the Aluminum Lady videos are still coming out on a regular basis.
Oh, wait. They're not?...
AdAstraPerAspera
Veteran
I still saw an Aluminum Lady sticker on a jetway at MIA the other day; maybe we can't count his clout out just yet…?
cubs_in_2012
Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 25
- 21
Hello all -
Is it legal to have two non-rev listings on the same day, originating from two different cities but traveling to the same destination?
Scenario is I live in a city serviced by US but not by AA.
Scenario 1: Drive 3 hours to the nearest city serviced by AA and non-rev direct to destination
Scenario 2: ZED to 1 of 3 possible cities serviced by AA (this is actually the easy part) and then non-rev from that city
I will not know the best option until day of travel, hence the desire to list the day before on both non-rev flights to get higher up the food chain. Is that legal?
And before someone says it... Scenario 3, just buy a ticket!!
Thanks much.
Is it legal to have two non-rev listings on the same day, originating from two different cities but traveling to the same destination?
Scenario is I live in a city serviced by US but not by AA.
Scenario 1: Drive 3 hours to the nearest city serviced by AA and non-rev direct to destination
Scenario 2: ZED to 1 of 3 possible cities serviced by AA (this is actually the easy part) and then non-rev from that city
I will not know the best option until day of travel, hence the desire to list the day before on both non-rev flights to get higher up the food chain. Is that legal?
And before someone says it... Scenario 3, just buy a ticket!!
Thanks much.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
AA subscribes to the industry's leading duplicate booking detection service, and has for over 15 years (so do HA, AS and DL. US and UA used to subscribe to the same service, but thought they could do the job cheaper/better in-house).
Something like JFK-LAX will come up as a dupe for LGA-DFW-BUR if there are identifying traits in both PNRs (e.g. same FF number, cell number, email address, or in the case of employees, same employee number). There's also a variation which will flag whenever it finds two (or more) bookings where one flight hasn't landed before the one in another booking takes off.
When dupes are found, there's a process the airline defines on what to do. Some bookings get whacked, others just get queued to a fraud detection group in the call center or RM. Not sure if AA is doing this for NRSA bookings or not, but I do know they were doing it for positive space listings.
Something like JFK-LAX will come up as a dupe for LGA-DFW-BUR if there are identifying traits in both PNRs (e.g. same FF number, cell number, email address, or in the case of employees, same employee number). There's also a variation which will flag whenever it finds two (or more) bookings where one flight hasn't landed before the one in another booking takes off.
When dupes are found, there's a process the airline defines on what to do. Some bookings get whacked, others just get queued to a fraud detection group in the call center or RM. Not sure if AA is doing this for NRSA bookings or not, but I do know they were doing it for positive space listings.
jimntx
Veteran
This is a shady area in the travel policy. The policy clearly states that holding a confirmed space ticket AND a non-rev listing for the same flight is a violation of travel policy punishable by loss of travel benefits up to and including termination.
There is a lack of clarity in company statements about multiple bookings. On one hand the company says don't do this because it causes problems with load factor calculations, catering, etc. On the other, the company says that no seat is taken out of inventory (for non-rev travel) until a boarding pass is issued by the gate agent. (I know that when the company was attempting to cater F/C to the revenue load rather than to the cabin capacity, non-revs who got F/C at the last minute did not always get meals.)
I do know that the company tracks such things as--
1. You list and check-in for a flight as a D2 (let's say 24 hours prior to departure). You are departing from a hub (say DFW or ORD).
2. As the hours progress, you see D2Ts checking in who will be through passengers at the hub and will go ahead of you in priority.
3. You cancel your D2 listing, re-list and check-in as a D1. This is a BIG no-no. I know because I did it when I was commuting to STL, not knowing that it was illegal. When I got to the gate, the agent asked me if I was sure I wanted to use that D1 or go back to D2 status and take my original place in line. This particular agent let me know that it was a violation and she would have to report it, if I insisted on using the D1. I went back to D2. Didn't get on the flight, but I still have my job and my travel benefits. So, there is some ability to track booking history for non-revs--even cancelled listings.
After all, just as my father used to say when each of us got our driver's license..."Remember, as far as you are concerned, the law is what the cop on the beat says it is. If he is wrong, that's what courts and judges are for." Well, as far as most of us are concerned, the travel policy is what the agent at the gate says it is. If they refuse you boarding for a perceived violation of the travel policy, you might win in an appeal, but you still won't get to LA that day.
There is legal precedent that defines travel benefits as a granted, not an earned benefit. Technically, the company can change the policy at any time for any reason.
Given what E posted above about duplicate booking tracking software, my recommendation would be don't do it. If the need to be in Los Angeles is so great that you would risk your benefits and/or your job to get there, it is a need that calls for buying a confirmed space ticket.
There is a lack of clarity in company statements about multiple bookings. On one hand the company says don't do this because it causes problems with load factor calculations, catering, etc. On the other, the company says that no seat is taken out of inventory (for non-rev travel) until a boarding pass is issued by the gate agent. (I know that when the company was attempting to cater F/C to the revenue load rather than to the cabin capacity, non-revs who got F/C at the last minute did not always get meals.)
I do know that the company tracks such things as--
1. You list and check-in for a flight as a D2 (let's say 24 hours prior to departure). You are departing from a hub (say DFW or ORD).
2. As the hours progress, you see D2Ts checking in who will be through passengers at the hub and will go ahead of you in priority.
3. You cancel your D2 listing, re-list and check-in as a D1. This is a BIG no-no. I know because I did it when I was commuting to STL, not knowing that it was illegal. When I got to the gate, the agent asked me if I was sure I wanted to use that D1 or go back to D2 status and take my original place in line. This particular agent let me know that it was a violation and she would have to report it, if I insisted on using the D1. I went back to D2. Didn't get on the flight, but I still have my job and my travel benefits. So, there is some ability to track booking history for non-revs--even cancelled listings.
After all, just as my father used to say when each of us got our driver's license..."Remember, as far as you are concerned, the law is what the cop on the beat says it is. If he is wrong, that's what courts and judges are for." Well, as far as most of us are concerned, the travel policy is what the agent at the gate says it is. If they refuse you boarding for a perceived violation of the travel policy, you might win in an appeal, but you still won't get to LA that day.
There is legal precedent that defines travel benefits as a granted, not an earned benefit. Technically, the company can change the policy at any time for any reason.
Given what E posted above about duplicate booking tracking software, my recommendation would be don't do it. If the need to be in Los Angeles is so great that you would risk your benefits and/or your job to get there, it is a need that calls for buying a confirmed space ticket.
jimntx
Veteran
Ignore legal precedent statement in my previous post. Perhaps that is true at other airlines. The following is a direct quote from the Trip Book, the AA non-rev travel bible. The bolding, italics, and underlining are mine.
"This TRIP Book contains American Airlines’ non-revenue travel policies. Our non-revenue travel is a privilege, not a benefit or a right. The TRIP Book does not constitute a promise or a contract between American and you for travel privileges. Nor does it guarantee future travel privileges for any period of time or under any particular terms or conditions. American reserves the right in its sole discretion to interpret the terms of the TRIP Book (and the scope of the travel privileges), and suspend, amend or terminate travel privileges, as a whole, in part, or for specific individuals or groups of individuals, for any reason at any time, with or without notice. In the event of a conflict between the TRIP Book and any documents otherwise describing travel privileges (such as those describing early exit incentives, settlements or releases of claims), the TRIP Book shall control in all cases.
Oh, and Cubs_in_2012, don't even THINK of using the argument that since there is no AA service near you, you have to do it this way. At AA, that is a non-starter from the git-go. If there is no AA service near you then obviously you don't live there for work reasons. When it comes to non-rev travel for personal reasons or even commuting to work, AA's policy is that you choose to live where you do. Expect no help or slack cut for you because of it.
"This TRIP Book contains American Airlines’ non-revenue travel policies. Our non-revenue travel is a privilege, not a benefit or a right. The TRIP Book does not constitute a promise or a contract between American and you for travel privileges. Nor does it guarantee future travel privileges for any period of time or under any particular terms or conditions. American reserves the right in its sole discretion to interpret the terms of the TRIP Book (and the scope of the travel privileges), and suspend, amend or terminate travel privileges, as a whole, in part, or for specific individuals or groups of individuals, for any reason at any time, with or without notice. In the event of a conflict between the TRIP Book and any documents otherwise describing travel privileges (such as those describing early exit incentives, settlements or releases of claims), the TRIP Book shall control in all cases.
Oh, and Cubs_in_2012, don't even THINK of using the argument that since there is no AA service near you, you have to do it this way. At AA, that is a non-starter from the git-go. If there is no AA service near you then obviously you don't live there for work reasons. When it comes to non-rev travel for personal reasons or even commuting to work, AA's policy is that you choose to live where you do. Expect no help or slack cut for you because of it.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
I think most airlines today consider it a privilege. Being labeled as a benefit brings along unintended tax implications.
I believe (but won't confirm) that for those with reserved space, travel *is* considered a benefit. I do know that when they're in an A classification for personal travel, the value of the seat they occupy may be subject to imputed income (i.e. it's added to their W2 as income).
They can still travel as D and fall under privilege.
Now... imagine having commuting costs added as taxable income. It becomes a pretty big difference, and may be why unions haven't pushed too hard on the issue. Whenever it comes up in negotiations, it always seems to go away just as quickly without explanation...
I believe (but won't confirm) that for those with reserved space, travel *is* considered a benefit. I do know that when they're in an A classification for personal travel, the value of the seat they occupy may be subject to imputed income (i.e. it's added to their W2 as income).
They can still travel as D and fall under privilege.
Now... imagine having commuting costs added as taxable income. It becomes a pretty big difference, and may be why unions haven't pushed too hard on the issue. Whenever it comes up in negotiations, it always seems to go away just as quickly without explanation...
jimntx
Veteran
Thanks, E. I hadn't thought of the tax angle.
cubs_in_2012
Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 25
- 21
Thank you E and Jim. One listing for me it is!
jimntx
Veteran
I know the question came up at sometime lately about changing your travel status once you are checked in for a flight--change a D2 to D1 or vice versa. I knew it was a no-no, but just got this (broadcast, not just to me) email from a mid-level manager at DFW. Thought some of you might be interested.
"Just wanted to send a reminder regarding non-rev travel on a flight you have already checked in for and then wanting to change to a lower or higher status. If you change your status (i.e., D1 to D2 or D2 to D1), you must cancel your current flight listing and create a new listing for a later flight. Changing status for same/current flight is not an option. Please refer to the Trip book under Pass Classifications and Boarding Priority as indicated below:
“Once you have checked in for a flight, you may not change to a lower or higher priority for that flight (i.e., D1 to D2 or D2 to D1). If you wish to change travel classifications, you must cancel your current flight listing, create a new listing for a later flight and obtain a new check-in time with a change in priority.”
(The bolding and italics are mine.)
I know that for me it has meant burning one of my D1s to end up on the jumpseat anyway. And, I don't mean listing as a D1 to assure that I got the jumpseat ahead of another f/a. I mean listing as a D1 in hope of getting F/C on a long flight. :angry2: (
)
"Just wanted to send a reminder regarding non-rev travel on a flight you have already checked in for and then wanting to change to a lower or higher status. If you change your status (i.e., D1 to D2 or D2 to D1), you must cancel your current flight listing and create a new listing for a later flight. Changing status for same/current flight is not an option. Please refer to the Trip book under Pass Classifications and Boarding Priority as indicated below:
“Once you have checked in for a flight, you may not change to a lower or higher priority for that flight (i.e., D1 to D2 or D2 to D1). If you wish to change travel classifications, you must cancel your current flight listing, create a new listing for a later flight and obtain a new check-in time with a change in priority.”
(The bolding and italics are mine.)
I know that for me it has meant burning one of my D1s to end up on the jumpseat anyway. And, I don't mean listing as a D1 to assure that I got the jumpseat ahead of another f/a. I mean listing as a D1 in hope of getting F/C on a long flight. :angry2: (
)
