Clt Observer On Cwa - Company Meeting

[PITbull]

Chris Fox is quoted "I was floored, really floored by that amount". CWA workers top out at $20.05 an hour, PLUS premiums, just after 11 years! That amounts to 41,600 a year. She then equates what pilots top out at and does the how fair and equitable is that? She states they are bearly making it. I have nothing against res agents and the like, but shame on them for sitting dumb and happy for so many years when these jobs should have only been stepping stones in ones career. Also, shame on USAir for feeding the outragous wages for so long, I can see why most have stayed and now don't know what to do regarding USAirs current situation. I believe a mechanic only tops out at what? 26, 28 an hour? The MOC tops out currently at around 33 an hour? Can we see what is wrong with this picture? Does the FAA breath down the necks of res and gate agents? Is their livelyhood on the line day in and day out, not to mention the safety issue? How long did they school for the res license or gate agent license? How much recurrent training is involved? Shame on both sides to this issue....

Jane,

You have your nerve to come on here and dictate what and who you think are fat and happyl...Can we seee what's wrong with your sick picture...you wan-a-be- an employee, piece of $%&*!

Let's see some real talent....go pound salt, with a chisel, with both hands tied behind your back, at the edge of a cliff in a wind storm"! :angry: That would make me "fat and happy"!

 

[Dog Wonder]

It is too bad there are those out there that never realized there are people in this world who stay at a job because they enjoy their work. It is not prestige or money they want. It is to be productive and earn a living wage.

The absolute arrogance of those that say you earn too much money if you make a living wage, no matter what you do, is a poison on society.

Trickle down economics, relying on the rich to pass their wealth into the economy, is fantasy. The rich did not get rich by giving their money away. They got there either on the backs of their parents or the backs of productive workers. Either way very few either give it back or believe they are not entitled to it.

The brainwashed simpletons who insult the working class on this forum will never appreciate the people who are productive in this company, because they are so wrapped up in their own self importance to see they are no better than anyone else.

Go listen to Rush, and say baa, baa, baa, because that is the limit of your intelligence. Being a mouthpiece for the economic elite doesn't make you better than those that put them there.

Shut up and get a job.

 

[PITbull]

It is too bad there are those out there that never realized there are people in this world who stay at a job because they enjoy their work. It is not prestige or money they want. It is to be productive and earn a living wage.

The absolute arrogance of those that say you earn too much money if you make a living wage, no matter what you do, is a poison on society.

Trickle down economics, relying on the rich to pass their wealth into the economy, is fantasy. The rich did not get rich by giving their money away. They got there either on the backs of their parents or the backs of productive workers. Either way very few either give it back or believe they are not entitled to it.

The brainwashed simpletons who insult the working class on this forum will never appreciate the people who are productive in this company, because they are so wrapped up in their own self importance to see they are no better than anyone else.

Go listen to Rush, and say baa, baa, baa, because that is the limit of your intelligence. Being a mouthpiece for the economic elite doesn't make you better than those that put them there.

Shut up and get a job.

DogWonder,

You sure "called it".

 

[ktflyhome]

Now ya know why Ms. Plane Jane pissed me off. I am not a Res Agent or Gate Agent, but there job is just as important and Career minded as mine.

 

[tadjr]

They dont..... handle international,

Not to beat a dead horse, but the international ticketing deals today were interesting.
I had a party of 2 going to MAD who had their agency issue their tickets on the wrong day so they called the agency to correct it. Agency voided out their original tickets, but forgot to issue new ones. They showed up at the airport and nothing there for tickets. I was trying to get them on an earlier flight because we had been closed part of the day for lightning and didnt want them to miss their flight on their 50 min connection in PHL if we closed again. Called the agency and had to wait 10 minutes for them to figure out what happened and reticket. In the meantime, do I wait for the agent to get back to me and stare at the people in line or do something I normally wouldnt do and ask the customer to wait on the line for the agent while I continue working the line. Option 2 prevailed.
Another agent at the same time had an international customer whose agency didnt ticket her at all. (She was at the kiosk for some reason). So now he is on the line with them trying to get her ticket worked out at the same time as taking care of the 8 kiosks he is in charge of. He goes for option 2 as well. (At this time of day there were 3 of us at the counter!). He gets the easy one though. The agency does an International Prepaid! Yippee!!!! and thanks for the help :down: . Another 5 minutes and he's done with her.
3rd deal of the afternoon. Girl volunteered in Munich and got a $300 voucher. Is planning on traveling MUC-TPA-MUC and wanted to exchange/pay for ticket. Sabre cant figure out how to do this since it thinks it wants her to pay in Euros (she is leaving from Munich after all) and cant figure out how to get her $300 voucher to exchange. I converted it to Euros for Sabre, changed the fare to dollars for Sabre, did everything I could think of FOR SABRE to get it to reissue. Finally gave up and called the International Procedures desk for help. He must not have been able to get it to work either because he just forced a $300 reduction in the price of the ticket and said go for it!!!
AAARRRGGGHHHH ! Just another day at the office.
Sorry you had to wait in line.....

 

[youngblood]

Chris Fox is quoted "I was floored, really floored by that amount". CWA workers top out at $20.05 an hour, PLUS premiums, just after 11 years! That amounts to 41,600 a year. She then equates what pilots top out at and does the how fair and equitable is that? She states they are bearly making it. I have nothing against res agents and the like, but shame on them for sitting dumb and happy for so many years when these jobs should have only been stepping stones in ones career. Also, shame on USAir for feeding the outragous wages for so long, I can see why most have stayed and now don't know what to do regarding USAirs current situation. I believe a mechanic only tops out at what? 26, 28 an hour? The MOC tops out currently at around 33 an hour? Can we see what is wrong with this picture? Does the FAA breath down the necks of res and gate agents? Is their livelyhood on the line day in and day out, not to mention the safety issue? How long did they school for the res license or gate agent license? How much recurrent training is involved? Shame on both sides to this issue....

planejane,

Scenario:

A person works 20 years for a company (setting aside job titles) and has topped out for pay. They have given up holidays, trudged to work in blizzards, left three hours before work to get there on time because of construction, have created revenue that's double even triple than what they make in a year in less than two weeks, etc etc etc. One day they look at their pay check and "You know what? I make way too much for what I do. I think I'll give the company back 1/3 of my earnings."

Doesn't sound very likely, does it? Who are you to say someone is making too much? What exactly do you do and how much do you make? One thing that aggravates the hell out of me is someone who THINKS they know the worth of a person and what they should get paid. There are some in this world that didn't have the privilege of obtaining an education and therefore don't have the means to move up the corporate ladder.

As far as I'm concerned, if I do a good job and work hard I am worth every last damn dime and then some. Let's attack your profession - whatever it may be. If you lay it out there, I'm sure someone will step up to the plate and tell you that you make too much. I'm sure you'll take no offense and laugh right along with us.

This world takes all kinds of people to function. From garbage men (who make more than me) all the way up to leaders of countries. You can't have one without the other; otherwise, it would be chaos. Your worth is no more than mine nor anyone else's.

This reminds me of when I was teaching. Everyone knows a teacher's salary. Because it was public information, everyone thought a teacher was paid too much. Funny how when things are publicized everyone has an opinion.

 

[4merresrat]

Where did plainjane go? I guess there is no way to defend the undefensible. I guess she has nothing left to say.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Gee Piney Bob you sure are sensitive. Somehow my post attacked your uncle on Omaha Beach. Wasn't intended to. But I can point out the economic elite aren't risking their lives on a battlefield in Iraq or Afghanistan. They are sitting in Washington sucking up sweetheart deals "risking" their personal wealth.

It sure would be nice if those soldiers had jobs with a living wage available when they return. I hope your uncle did. He deserved no less.

 

[cavalier]

. Do I honestly and truly give a fat rats rectum if the company I work for survies? NO! People who put their careers and income into the hands of a company are short sighted.

I see Bobby is still full of himself...glad you have the world all figured out Bob.

Your lectures do nothing except make you feel good because they sure as hell don’t make the U employees feel good or provide any kind of insight and forget wisdom.

Tell what, oh wise one; I wouldn't trade my life for yours in a million years and mine aint easy!

 

[bestservedcold]

I have heard over and over again, for years, that in order for U to compete they would need to get their labor costs in line. I have waited in vain for the offer that would allow them to do so.
It is as plain as the nose on their face that the easiest way to get their labor costs in line would be to offer an early out! They have a workforce waiting in the wings that will be making the wages that they claim to need. And they will be doing so for several years, providing U with the breathing room they need to get their latest “new†business plan up and running.
The problem at U is not inordinately high wages, so much as it is inordinately high seniority. Everything that management has done up until now has guaranteed that the more senior employees stay, while the more junior employees go. For some time now, it has appeared that the company’s main plan for attrition is to make the working conditions and employee morale so miserable that the senior employees will simply leave. The company is running out of time and those tactics, though somewhat successful, won’t do get the job done.
The problem with that plan is that the senior employees believe that this company is our company. We have helped to build it over the years and have as much invested in it as any Dr. Bronner. Perhaps not monetarily, but certainly emotionally. We have survived countless business plans, sloppy mergers, upper management changes with the additional business plans that come with those changes, and we continue to do what the employees of this company do best…make the best of what is handed to us to keep the passengers coming. (In spite of how the highly educated , highly paid folks in Crystal City continue to screw things up!)
Now the industry has changed, and because the LCC’s are relatively junior in seniority, we are expected to take wage cuts to meet their wages. In time, they too will be senior and their employees will demand their piece of the pie too. (Notice that Southwest is no longer mentioned when the comparisons are made!)
I will not agree to any further cuts unless an early out is offered. It may cost U a whole lot on the front end, but it will save them a tremendous amount in the long run, and it will allow them to survive.
For the first time in my 30 years here, I see a business plan that addresses the problems that have constantly plagued this company. It’s a good plan but it’s not complete. And it won’t be complete until it recognizes the employees that have served this company well, for years.
Dr. Bronner knows how to craft an early out that won’t make any of us rich, but will allow us to bow out with dignity. Screw the gold watch! Let me out!

 

[mweiss]

The problem at U is not inordinately high wages, so much as it is inordinately high seniority.

Truth be told, that is not "the" problem. At most it's half of the problem.

 

[bestservedcold]

Be gentle. I'm new here, but in your opinion what is the other half of the problem?

 

[mweiss]

I understand. My apologies for not formally welcoming you to the board.

It has been noted more than once on this board, accurately, that even if every union employee at the company worked for free, the company would still be in serious financial trouble.

So, what's the other half of the problem? Most around here would simply say "management" and leave it at that. It's a gross oversimplification for the following:

• Ineffecient use of aircraft. They often spend over 12 hours a day on the ground generating zero revenue.
• Hub-related inefficiencies. The peaky nature of hubs means that staff and equipment spend as much as 30% of the time doing nothing.
• Inefficient scheduling. ktflyhome could tell you many stories of how she's paid to sit around doing nothing, even though she wants to work.
• Too many express carriers. It makes coordination of express operations nearly impossible.
• Too many fleet types. The overlaps among 737/319/320 and 757/321 are large. Having all of those increases costs due to extra equipment, storage, mechanic training, pilot training, etc., etc., etc.
• Debt. US has a great deal of debt, and servicing the debt generates no revenue.
• The bankruptcy. US has to pay for things in cash up front, which also costs a great deal of money.

I'm sure there are others as well. This list is just off the top of my head.

 

[ktflyhome]

Welcome Bestservedcold. I appreciate your post. I believe not offering a respectable early out to the Senior force here, just shows the company's true feelings for the employees who have dedicated their lives to U. I have spoken with many who would leave tomorrow if given the right and proper send off.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Oh, my goodness, that is one of the most ignorant posts I have read in a VERY long time!! Even if she is ignorant enough to think it, you would think she would have enough common sense not to share her sentiments. 1st of all, Planejane, let me say this, not EVERYONE seeks fullfillment through their jobs. Many people-namely alot of women( of which obviously res is full of) do it to supplement there incomes. There are alot who are happy to work part time. Many of my former co-workers were full time mothers-this was there main focus. They enjoyed the many and varied benefits of working for U. It offered them a fair wage. flexibility, good benefits, and travel. They liked the job because they could pick their shift-work 9-3:30 and be home when their children got home. MANY of the people I worked with were Salt-of-the earth type people, who knew there is more important things than earning a paycheck-like being there for their children and raising responsible citizens. Yes, and that is more important than climbing the so-called corporate ladder. But that is besides the point, to judge people because they stayed, and to then say they stayed because of the money, well, of course they stayed because the pay was good! It is scarey that people like YOU are out there! :down:

A job that is not expected to be fulfilling is NOT a career.

A career is not necessarily a profession.

I would never have, nor certain not now, considered a flight attendent position a career or a profession. However, if a particular person was very interested in the job, then I might conceed that that personal interest might justify referring to that person's job experience as a 'career.' Additionally, I'd argue that that person would probably do better to decide to become an inflight service/security/safety manager, manage flight attendents, or write policies for flight attendents or provide some more valuable service to the inflight safety, security and services field. Light Years' attitude and knowledge and insight about the job would qualify, but having her perform the service of a flight attendent, as currently defined in the industry, does not maximize her contribution to the field. (In my opinion)

I might have considered a reservation agent or customer service agent's position as a 'career' 15 to 20 years ago. Respectfully, I'd have to admit that 10 years ago, I'd have expected that these folks would have started seeing the writing on the wall regarding the technological future. Also, I would have expected CWA or whomever would have maintained the 'professional' aspect of the job by encouraging training in computer programming or a career path to a 'flight information specialist' position to take care of the many complex situations that occur, but not to include basic stuff that a computer can easily handle.

I am examining the technological future for my career and considering alternatives and I'm in a complex, human-behavior oriented analytical position.