The 122 million in givebacks is the total package, not a straight 25,000 in pay. Like other people have mentioned, it can be in less pay, more contributions in medical ins, less staffing, rolling hubs, etc.. It's just that the final cumulative savings adds up to 122M.
Clt Observer On Cwa - Company Meeting
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The 122 million in givebacks is the total package, not a straight 25,000 in pay. Like other people have mentioned, it can be in less pay, more contributions in medical ins, less staffing, rolling hubs, etc.. It's just that the final cumulative savings adds up to 122M.
Chris Fox is quoted "I was floored, really floored by that amount". CWA workers top out at $20.05 an hour, PLUS premiums, just after 11 years! That amounts to 41,600 a year. She then equates what pilots top out at and does the how fair and equitable is that? She states they are bearly making it. I have nothing against res agents and the like, but shame on them for sitting dumb and happy for so many years when these jobs should have only been stepping stones in ones career. Also, shame on USAir for feeding the outragous wages for so long, I can see why most have stayed and now don't know what to do regarding USAirs current situation. I believe a mechanic only tops out at what? 26, 28 an hour? The MOC tops out currently at around 33 an hour? Can we see what is wrong with this picture? Does the FAA breath down the necks of res and gate agents? Is their livelyhood on the line day in and day out, not to mention the safety issue? How long did they school for the res license or gate agent license? How much recurrent training is involved? Shame on both sides to this issue....
PlainJane: What a pompouse attidude you have. Reservation Agents and Gate Agents have just been sitting "dumb and happy" for all these years??? They should have used their jobs as "stepping stones in one's career'???? And pray tell what career are you referring too???? Why in Hell shouldn't their jobs be a CAREER?????
What exactly is your defination of a Career????? Should one only have a Career if they have a college education. Give me a break!!!!!! :down: :angry:
What exactly is your defination of a Career????? Should one only have a Career if they have a college education. Give me a break!!!!!! :down: :angry:
Kitty,
I don't have an attitude, just an opinion. Again, life is full of choices. If you chose to make that your career and your satisfied, life if great. However, for the most, I believe it was the money that made them stay. I tell graduating seniors who have no idea where the future is for them, think of something that you enjoy doing. It must take no monetary means to do it and there is no monetary rewards. It would just be something you would chose to do and enjoy it. You would be surprised what they come up with and how that shows them some directions for their future. I don't think most are at U for the enjoyment of it! U made it to easy for most to seek other aspects. Whether you agree or not is your choice.
I don't have an attitude, just an opinion. Again, life is full of choices. If you chose to make that your career and your satisfied, life if great. However, for the most, I believe it was the money that made them stay. I tell graduating seniors who have no idea where the future is for them, think of something that you enjoy doing. It must take no monetary means to do it and there is no monetary rewards. It would just be something you would chose to do and enjoy it. You would be surprised what they come up with and how that shows them some directions for their future. I don't think most are at U for the enjoyment of it! U made it to easy for most to seek other aspects. Whether you agree or not is your choice.
local 12 proud
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- Mar 5, 2004
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i enjoy skydiving, would some one please tell me how to make tons of money doing this! god knows wrenching airplanes does'nt pay. :down:
Yes, and what those Seniors might choose now to make them happy at the young age of 17 or 18, may be a totally different ball game 20 years from now. Things change, people change along with responsibilities and families and before you know it you have dedicated a large portion of your life to something that is difficult to suddenly change.
I resented you implying that what the Res. Agents and Gate Agents do, is not worth what they are paid and they should not have considered it a Career.
But then again, I assume you are a Teacher from your post and have a College Education, which OF COURSE makes you a Professional Career person.
And don't take this as me putting down the Teaching Profession. Not at all. My son always wanted to be a lawyer on Wall Street, he is now teaching in the middle of Mexico and getting ready to move to Colorado for his Doctorate. So he did choose his real passion, with very low pay at the moment.
What I am saying, at many folks with this company started out young and looked to U for a decent future and living. It is not right to try and take all the hard working years away and treat everyone like we are 18 years old again, just starging out. To ask 40,50 and 60 year olds to work at McDonald wages and treat them like liability is in my book CRIMINAL.
I resented you implying that what the Res. Agents and Gate Agents do, is not worth what they are paid and they should not have considered it a Career.
But then again, I assume you are a Teacher from your post and have a College Education, which OF COURSE makes you a Professional Career person.
And don't take this as me putting down the Teaching Profession. Not at all. My son always wanted to be a lawyer on Wall Street, he is now teaching in the middle of Mexico and getting ready to move to Colorado for his Doctorate. So he did choose his real passion, with very low pay at the moment.
What I am saying, at many folks with this company started out young and looked to U for a decent future and living. It is not right to try and take all the hard working years away and treat everyone like we are 18 years old again, just starging out. To ask 40,50 and 60 year olds to work at McDonald wages and treat them like liability is in my book CRIMINAL.
I'm glad were straight on screen names. Now, your son sounds together and you should be proud.
You cannot look to an airline or any other corporation to provide you with a job and pay raises for your whole working career. Example, Eastern, Pan Am and most recently TWA.
I do feel the CWA is somewhat overpaid. The question - can they take their skill and knowledge to the business market and expect the same? Unlike the mechanics who do have alternatives. I would imagine since outsourcing is becoming agressive, technical support of any kind will be in their favor. Customer service, be it retail or food and beverage, will not compare to the wage of the CWA today. I'm also not saying, 8/hr is reasonable either but their could be a fair compromise with what I read regarding seniority posturing.
Again, blame should be placed on both sides and now both sides need to weigh the worth of every job in its entirety.
And yes, I sought out my passion, and no I am not a teacher. Nor am I employed by U. Just have a vested interest, personally and financially.
You cannot look to an airline or any other corporation to provide you with a job and pay raises for your whole working career. Example, Eastern, Pan Am and most recently TWA.
I do feel the CWA is somewhat overpaid. The question - can they take their skill and knowledge to the business market and expect the same? Unlike the mechanics who do have alternatives. I would imagine since outsourcing is becoming agressive, technical support of any kind will be in their favor. Customer service, be it retail or food and beverage, will not compare to the wage of the CWA today. I'm also not saying, 8/hr is reasonable either but their could be a fair compromise with what I read regarding seniority posturing.
Again, blame should be placed on both sides and now both sides need to weigh the worth of every job in its entirety.
And yes, I sought out my passion, and no I am not a teacher. Nor am I employed by U. Just have a vested interest, personally and financially.
One should certainly have a more lucrative career if they have a college education. These are people investing years of their time and money, often going into debt. Such an investment must have commensurate reward, or else people will stop making the investment.ktflyhome said:
Mweiss: You missed my point. Maybe I should have said, Can one NOT have a Career if they DON'T have a college education????? I have along with many F/A's have considered this job a Career. With or without a college education. I am sure Res. and Agents have felt the same. What is wrong with that??? Now, all of a sudden because times are changing and U is in trouble all the folks who have dedicated their lives (careers) to this industry should now be told that we shouldn't have ever considered our jobs OUR CAREERS?????BS :angry:
4merresrat
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- Apr 3, 2003
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Oh, my goodness, that is one of the most ignorant posts I have read in a VERY long time!! Even if she is ignorant enough to think it, you would think she would have enough common sense not to share her sentiments. 1st of all, Planejane, let me say this, not EVERYONE seeks fullfillment through their jobs. Many people-namely alot of women( of which obviously res is full of) do it to supplement there incomes. There are alot who are happy to work part time. Many of my former co-workers were full time mothers-this was there main focus. They enjoyed the many and varied benefits of working for U. It offered them a fair wage. flexibility, good benefits, and travel. They liked the job because they could pick their shift-work 9-3:30 and be home when their children got home. MANY of the people I worked with were Salt-of-the earth type people, who knew there is more important things than earning a paycheck-like being there for their children and raising responsible citizens. Yes, and that is more important than climbing the so-called corporate ladder. But that is besides the point, to judge people because they stayed, and to then say they stayed because of the money, well, of course they stayed because the pay was good! It is scarey that people like YOU are out there!planejane said:
:down:Guess what - the pilots can't, either. Were they overpaid?planejane said:
Should they have viewed their time at U as a stepping stone?
Tens of thousands of agents have retired comfortably from the airlines thu the decades. It was a career for them.
Most of the twenty + years folks hired on with those expectations.
At several waypoints along the journey, AL could have ameliorated the current situation. NW, when they went great guns on the RJ's, grandfathered their agents. WN, rather than waiting until things are bad, are offering early-outs now, when they can afford to.
Ok, water over the dam. At any point, where has the Palace accepted any responsibility, or spoken truth to their employees?
I'm sure you understand such perfidy undermines relations, and would find it to be unacceptable.
4merresrat
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- Apr 3, 2003
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Well, I guess we are indebted to ole plainjane for keeping us supplied with idiotic versus to quote off of for a long time to come! I'm am so thankful that she has "nothing against res agents" I love it when she says there they are "sitting dumb and happy. . ." Now at 1st one would assume she is a female pilot by her screen name, then she leads us to believe she is a teacher(goodness forbid!) but no, it comes out that she has a "vested interest both financially and personally" Well, I guess that explains it. Of course she doesn't want res agents to make 41,000 a year, it might put her own selfish "interests" in jeopardy! And then she goes on about res agents do not have any pressure or FAA people breathing down there back, and how long did it take them to acquire a license.planejane said:
Oh boy....here we go again...another one who wants to pass judgement on someone elses employment and more than likely has never walked in my shoes. But I will contribute my 2 cents for what it is worth because just like PlaneJane, I also have the 1st Amendment right. For what it is worth, the company is to blame for the situation in the CWA group and they have finally admitted it. Seniority issues. This has been a problem for quite sometime. Even when we where making money the company never offered a tempting severance package. So what do you have? A very senior workforce and when layoffs happen it is the junior agents. So you do have less a workforce but at the higher scale. The company has needed to address this issue for quite sometime and FINALLY is forced to address it. Sorry PlaneJane that situation is U's error not CWA. This is the main problem in my department. Lets see about the wage issue. During 1992-1999 my group and others had their salaries frozen and the company told us that we were making as much as the other airline employees who did the same job. Amazing that when we began our contract talks the CWA folks found out that this was not at all true. We were the low end. So hence our wages were brought up to industry standards. Now lets address the vacation time. During the period 1992-1999 the company came up with the PDO system(Personal Days Off). When this happened I was actually thrilled about it until I heard the companys defination of the PDO. You see, before I started to work for PI I came from a place that offered PDO. You have a set amount of days off that you would use as either vacation or sick time. U plan was that you would put 1 week of vacation time into your sick bank and god forbid if you used the sick time. We got back to how it used to be. Most of the employees at the CWA work group just wanted to work for an airline. Yes the money is good and the benis are ok. We have employees with college degrees, and we have employees just out of high school. All are very skilled and have the abiltiy to do what we do. You made the statement that both CWA and the company are at fault.....I beg to differ. The company had the chance to correct all "wrongs" when the SteelWorkers union try to get in. All though it was defeated with only about a 25% yes vote, things got worse. Imagine if these issues were addressed at the time instead of letting things get worse!!!! So you state that both sides are at fault....I beg to differ. If one could explain how CWA is at fault, I will be more than glad to listen.
