Clt Observer On Cwa - Company Meeting

[ktflyhome]

I'll say upfront that this is not a fair comparison...
Grocery store clerks get special training too.

What makes the FA's job different is that the training is there for reasons of safety. That does tend to make Definition 1 more accurate.

Serious question, since I haven't gone through FA training. What's the percentage of enrollees in FA training that do not graduate?

In my particular class, we started out with 60 and 51 graduated with wings. You do the math. At present time out of the 51 graduated there are 30 left out of my class. You do the math. Oh Teacher that you are.

Most failed the math segments and/or military time. Computing our time as in 2:00 to 14:00. Or they failed the city codes. Three strikes and you are out. One has to have a 90% on all tests to get through.

 

[mweiss]

That'd be an 85% passing rate. What was the reason for the departure of 21 of the graduates? Were they fired or did they move on to greener pastures?

90% on city codes can be difficult. Mentally, I see ORD and think "Orchard," or I'll see CVG and think "Covington." I confused a couple of airline personnel that way.

But what about the safety stuff? I'd expect that to be an even higher priority than remembering that ABE is Allentown (or, more precisely, Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton).

 

[Light Years]

Additionally, I'd argue that that person would probably do better to decide to become an inflight service/security/safety manager, manage flight attendents, or write policies for flight attendents or provide some more valuable service to the inflight safety, security and services field. Light Years' attitude and knowledge and insight about the job would qualify, but having her perform the service of a flight attendent, as currently defined in the industry, does not maximize her contribution to the field. (In my opinion)

🙂 Thank you! I appreciate that.

 

[ErinSaoirseOBX]

Customer comments and questions frequently heard by res agents:

"I just made a reservation online and I wanted to check....."

"I'm on your website and I can't figure out...."

"Oh, thank God, a human being!"

"I need to change my ticket"

"I THOUGHT I was buying it for my daughter (son, brother, husband, aunt, uncle, dog)"

"I HATE that little check-in thingy at the airport!"

"ALL my medication and my car keys are in that bag!"


Hey, Charlie! Starkist don't want tunas with good taste, they want tunas that taste good!" And yes, the customer DOES want a human voice and customer service. And if the call volume in res is any indication (when I left at midnight there were still 125 calls on hold) they WILL wait for it. Is anyone listening to the customer?

There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey.
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

 

[mweiss]

Erin, ask them sometime how much more they'd be willing to pay for an airline ticket in order to have that human talk to them.

I'm genuinely interested in the answer, because I don't get the impression anyone else is asking that (very important) question.

 

[Light Years]

quote
But what about the safety stuff? I'd expect that to be an even higher priority than remembering that ABE is Allentown (or, more precisely, Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton). [/QUOTE]


In my experience (at a few airlines), its the safety stuff that weeds people out. Alot of it is really pure memorization, but if someone suffers from performance anxiety or stage fright they may fail the drills. It can be pretty nerve-wracking, even years later in recurrent, particularly in front of a hundred or so people.

Others, even after all of the interviews and orientations, still think they are in for a flying TGI Fridays job and are dismayed when presented with numerous books and manuals and a wealth of seemingly endless technical information to learn. Most if not all "academic" releases are trainees who fail emergency procedures or aircraft specific tests (keep in mind at the time of US's last F/A training class, the company was operating 14 different types of aircraft, each with thier own unique procedures, equiptment and locations, doors, configurations and service).

There are alot of releases for "non-academic" reasons too, disciplinary or attendance. Tardiness, unproffessional behavior or appearance will all get a trainee "evaporated" (you never see them leave, they usually just never return from lunch, thier nameplate gone, dorm cleared out, never to be mentioned by the instructors... like they never existed).

I'd say at a major airline like US the failure rate is somewhere around 10-15%.

 

[mweiss]

Interesting story in relation. I was talking with a 28-year veteran FA a couple weeks ago about emergency stuff...I forget how it came up, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't my doing.

Anyway, she mentioned having been on a flight that had contained engine failure (she didn't actually know what that meant, though, she was just repeating what she was told), and asked "is there such a thing as an uncontained engine failure?" I was rather taken aback, since I would have expected her to know about those. Even one of her fellow FAs, who was also in the galley at the time, looked surprised that she didn't know what it was.

I mentioned a very little bit about them (I believe the closest I ever got was alluding to UA232).

Is this not something that you're expected to know? I guess it's probably not that critical, since it's not like there's much you can do in any case.

 

[Light Years]

m-

It really depends on the airline how much a F/A would know about things like that. Some focus on cabin-only information while some delve a little deeper into technicalities of flight. For instance, two airlines may do a lesson using a specific crash as an example. One may discuss how the cabin preparation and evacuations were carried out in that particular circumstance without spending too much time on what went on up front or with the aircraft while the other might. Similarly, while the FAA requires some basics of all F/A training and procedures, they can vary greatly by carrier. An example of that would be that a cabin crewmember can initiate an evacuation on his own judgement at some, while others procedures allow only a flight deck crewmember to initiate one.

So regarding your particular example, it really just boils down to the specific flight attendant. Some absorb more operational and technical information than others. The basic requirement is that they know what procedures to follow in specific situations- which at the time wouldnt be described very technically, but in broader terms in the interest of time.

Personally, I'd expect a F/A, particularly a senior one to know a good deal about such a thing, but wouldnt see it as a failure on thier part if they didnt- as long as they know what to do in such a situation.

 

[4merresrat]

Unlike some, I do not spend endless hours on this board. I read, post and continue my day earning a living. Oh, yes, I do work on average 50 - 60 hours per week, some unpaid as in volunteer work with people from all walks of life. I fly U, WN, etc.... I consider U to be one of the best and talk frequently within the ranks. . .

Yes, it is so obvious that you are so intellectually superior to the rest of us peons that post here!

 

[Bear96]

Bear,

I know more about the guy that meets these posts. I'm a preety good judge of character, myself.

YOU are on our US board...don't like the heat, go where its luke warm at UAL. 🙄

Whatever crap rolls down U, will surely catch UAL f/as in about 6- 8 months. You've been about that far behind us on all fronts.

What on Earth are you talking about.

I like the heat just fine, thank you.

And I am well aware that we at UA are lagging behind the U trainwreck by only a few months. I have made this observation myself many times. Why do you think I am making the effort to keep up with what is going on at U?

I am just saying sometimes it is better to try to take a moment to understand what someone else is saying, before you go blindly lashing out at them. If you take the time to listen for a moment, you might realize that not everyone is some form of management boogeyman in disguise.

🙄

 

[ktflyhome]

LT: Very well put as usuall.

The reason we have only around 30 left from my class are numorous. Motherhood, disablilities, retirement, termination and moving on to bigger things. A couple didn't make it through the probationary period. One girl left to fly with an Airline who did major Transatlantic flights, which we didn't have at that time.

One guy was let go the very day of graduation for running up a $500 Bar Bill that the company found out. Believe it or not, Training is very rigorous, stressfull and very strick. I felt I was in Boot Camp. You have to be very squeaky clean in all aspects. Hardly a day goes by without having to take a test. In the end though, I had a great sense of Pride. 🙂

 

[700UW]

Airlines wants more concessions for some
Karen Ferrick-Roman, Times Staff 06/06/2004

US Airways is asking $122 million in concessions from its ticket counter and gate agents and reservation workers, a union leader said Friday.

That's about 40 percent of what the airline wants from its pilots, even though the top agents earn only about 20 percent of a top pilot's wage.

"I was floored, really floored by that amount," said Chris Fox, president of the Communications Workers of America local in Pittsburgh.

CWA workers top out at $20.05 an hour, plus premiums, after 11 years. That amounts to about $41,600 a year for a 40-hour work week.

Pilots top out at about $200,000 a year, and the airline wants concessions worth $295 million from them, said Jack Stephan, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association. An average work month for a pilot is 85 flight hours.

"How is this fair and equitable?" Fox asked. "We're not the group that's rich. We're barely making it.

"We don't have an extra home to sell. I don't have an extra boat. I don't have one boat," she said.

She does have a 1990 Buick that she drives at the speed limit when heading to work in Green Tree, hoping for better gas mileage. She also has a mortgage on her Crescent Township home.

"If I have to take cuts and stuff, I'll lose my home," said Fox, who has worked 37 years for the airline.

The concession request isn't necessarily all in wages, but Fox said, "There's nothing in our contract that's worth this much money."

The CWA has no defined-pension plan as do US Airways' other work groups, Fox said. For about four years, they've had a 401(k), to which the airline contributes a percentage.

Unlike other work groups, CWA workers hired after 1992 don't get any prescription or other medical benefits when they're 65 and eligible for Medicare.

"We've been told we're the most productive passenger service group of all the airlines," Fox said. "It just doesn't make sense to us when we've had a contract for 30 years, with no bells and whistles, and gone through two concessions."

One piece of common ground for the union and the airline would be an employee buyout, a proposition that "surprised and pleased us," Fox said.

For the airline, a buyout wouldn't be worthwhile if too few workers accepted, Fox said. If too many did, the airline would have to avoid a mass exodus.

Meanwhile, US Airways has to compete with younger airlines with lower costs and fewer senior workers, airlines such as JetBlue and Air Tran. Most of these workers have been on the job less than five years, Fox said. Nearly 90 percent of US Airways' ticket counter and gate agents have reached the top of the pay scale.

Although the CWA has not agreed to reopen its contract, Fox said the union will continue talking with the company about ways to cut costs.

Karen Ferrick-Roman can be reached at kroman@timesonline.com.

 

[N924PS]

Airlines wants more concessions for some
Karen Ferrick-Roman, Times Staff 06/06/2004

US Airways is asking $122 million in concessions from its ticket counter and gate agents and reservation workers, a union leader said Friday.

That's about 40 percent of what the airline wants from its pilots, even though the top agents earn only about 20 percent of a top pilot's wage.

"I was floored, really floored by that amount," said Chris Fox, president of the Communications Workers of America local in Pittsburgh.

CWA workers top out at $20.05 an hour, plus premiums, after 11 years. That amounts to about $41,600 a year for a 40-hour work week.

Pilots top out at about $200,000 a year, and the airline wants concessions worth $295 million from them, said Jack Stephan, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association. An average work month for a pilot is 85 flight hours.

"How is this fair and equitable?" Fox asked. "We're not the group that's rich. We're barely making it.

"We don't have an extra home to sell. I don't have an extra boat. I don't have one boat," she said.

She does have a 1990 Buick that she drives at the speed limit when heading to work in Green Tree, hoping for better gas mileage. She also has a mortgage on her Crescent Township home.

"If I have to take cuts and stuff, I'll lose my home," said Fox, who has worked 37 years for the airline.

The concession request isn't necessarily all in wages, but Fox said, "There's nothing in our contract that's worth this much money."

The CWA has no defined-pension plan as do US Airways' other work groups, Fox said. For about four years, they've had a 401(k), to which the airline contributes a percentage.

Unlike other work groups, CWA workers hired after 1992 don't get any prescription or other medical benefits when they're 65 and eligible for Medicare.

"We've been told we're the most productive passenger service group of all the airlines," Fox said. "It just doesn't make sense to us when we've had a contract for 30 years, with no bells and whistles, and gone through two concessions."

One piece of common ground for the union and the airline would be an employee buyout, a proposition that "surprised and pleased us," Fox said.

For the airline, a buyout wouldn't be worthwhile if too few workers accepted, Fox said. If too many did, the airline would have to avoid a mass exodus.

Meanwhile, US Airways has to compete with younger airlines with lower costs and fewer senior workers, airlines such as JetBlue and Air Tran. Most of these workers have been on the job less than five years, Fox said. Nearly 90 percent of US Airways' ticket counter and gate agents have reached the top of the pay scale.

Although the CWA has not agreed to reopen its contract, Fox said the union will continue talking with the company about ways to cut costs.

Karen Ferrick-Roman can be reached at kroman@timesonline.com.

Once again the writer does not tell the entire story.

Although Pilots can work 85 Hours per month, it actually requires about 16 days a month or over 300 hours time away from base to do so. So the comparison to Fox's 40 hour work week is an incorrect comparison.

The presumption with most of the other employee groups is that the Pilots should always give more just because they make more. While there might be about 5% of the pilots earning that $200,000 per year sum most have much lower compensation. While other employee groups took single digit cuts on their hourly wage rate under the pre-bankruptcy contract modifications, the Pilots took 36% to 66%.

You can check the employee parking lots at all the crew bases. Bet you'll find most of the Pilots and Flight Attendants nursing an old beater along just like Chris Fox of CWA. And the biggest boat most of the pilots I know own is a Bass Boat with a Big Igloo Cooler!

 

[MrAeroMan]

Once again the writer does not tell the entire story.

Although Pilots can work 85 Hours per month, it actually requires about 16 days a month or over 300 hours time away from base to do so. So the comparison to Fox's 40 hour work week is an incorrect comparison.

The presumption with most of the other employee groups is that the Pilots should always give more just because they make more. While there might be about 5% of the pilots earning that $200,000 per year sum most have much lower compensation. While other employee groups took single digit cuts on their hourly wage rate under the pre-bankruptcy contract modifications, the Pilots took 36% to 66%.

You can check the employee parking lots at all the crew bases. Bet you'll find most of the Pilots and Flight Attendants nursing an old beater along just like Chris Fox of CWA. And the biggest boat most of the pilots I know own is a Bass Boat with a Big Igloo Cooler!

You're spot on 924 and to take it one step further the CWA represented employees are not REQUIRED to retire at age 60. Many a fine pilot has been forced to retire when he/she would've rather continued to work and was physically capable of doing the job. Talk about an antiquated rule!
While on the subject of physical capabilities the pilots all have to pass a yearly physical and if they don't pass they're done.

 

[savyinvestor]

You guys must not have met USA320! Savy