City of Dallas tells Delta it can no longer fly out of Love Field

[WorldTraveler]

I think the lawsuit everyone thought wasn't going to happen finally may be upon us.

DL certainly was going to exhaust every effort before going into court but this case seemed from the beginning like that was where it was going to end up.

They didn't go quietly the last time they left North Texas. They did leave rapidly and in large numbers though.

see how far that defense goes in court.

 

[robbedagain]

Sometimes the past history of what dl did in N Tx comes back to bite them in the tail

 

[WorldTraveler]

won't matter one hill of beans in court.

if it ain't in the law, it can't be enforced which is probably why the only people who have mentioned it are people on aviation chat forums and not the people who will have to sit on the otherside of the table from DL in a lawsuit.

 

[commavia]

I'm no lawyer, but this seems like a pretty easy "solution" to me - the City can just put on a nice little show trial of "forcing" one or multiple of the incumbent airlines (Southwest, United, Virgin) to sublease to Delta, and then those airlines simply schedule their gates - on which they have preferential use access - at all the prime times of the day, leaving commercially unattractive times for Delta (which is probably what will happen, anyway, no matter what).
 
That seems legal, and accomplishes the same "goal" that - I agree with Delta - the City, Southwest and United are all tacitly working towards.  That way the City and the incumbents can plausibly say to Delta, "we're happy to sublease to you, and we're sorry if you didn't find the available times of 1000-1045, 1330-1415 and 2130-2215 acceptable."

 

[WorldTraveler]

and that is what UA already did.... and DL believes, as do I and I said it months ago, that it doesn't meet the requirements of equal access to new entrants.


It is even harder to justify given that Virgin America actually has higher average fares than DL in many of the markets in which the two compete.

the larger issue which I am sure will be raised is how the DOJ had the authority to pick winners and losers in the US airline industry. I've gone thru the issues before but I fully expect that the whole basis of the DOJ's merger decision regarding AA/US will be challenged regarding divestiture of assets and who could get them.

Further, DL says that UA has subleased gate space to WN and UA has scheduled 90 minute ground times in violation of the definitions of full gate use. DL makes the case that with schedules that were in place at the time that DL sought access, there was and still remains gate space to accommodate DL's schedule PLUS other carriers and yet DAL has said they have no room.

There simply is no legal basis for arguing that a smaller carrier that gets higher average fares should be given access to taxpayer provided facilities while excluding larger carriers.

The final paragraph in DL's letter to the City of Dallas says this is DL's last attempt to informally settle the matter and if Dallas doesn't provide access as it is required to do under federal law, "these attempts will not preclude DL from seeking relief at law or in equity."

DL could win the huge support of N. Texas consumers in forcing the dismantling of the Wright Amendment and the duopoly which AA and WN have created.

 

[Hope777]

WT, PLEASE explain How AA help create the Duopoly???

 

[WorldTraveler]

if you don't get it by now, or don't choose to understand how AA fought for years to put WN in a box at DAL, I can't help you now.

What is coming to a head now is one party with a conscience deciding to challenge a law which has been revised umpteen times but which has still resulted in AA's dominance of DFW and WN's dominance of DAL with both kept out of each other's backyard.

For anyone to be unable to see that AA and WN most definitely had their hand in creating that system to the exclusion of other airlines and other competition will probably have to wait until the case goes to court.

No other airport (or pair of airports) in the US are as uncompetitive as DAL and DFW are and yet one step after another has resulted in not fixing but rather solidifying the duopoly between AA and WN.

If other carriers were free to enter and exit either airport, it wouldn't have become an issue... but it will become an issue and there is no amount of legal justification that any of the 5 parties or the DOJ can use to justify not completely gutting the whole language and starting over.

WN may well find itself being forced to start from scratch with gate assignments at DAL such that anyone who wants to fly there is accommodated BEFORE WN gets to take what they want.

OTOH, the restrictions against int'l operations at DAL will likely be thrown out and AA and WN will each be free to operate from either airport.


There is nothing competitive or pro-consumer about DAL or DFW or the Wright Amendment and its multiple revisions.

 

[commavia]

[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]"You can't fight City Hall," as they say, but [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Delta - the "[/SIZE]one party with a conscience," supposedly[SIZE=14.3999996185303px] - is going to take on the "whole basis of the DOJ's merger decision regarding AA/US," and the U.S. DOJ's "authority to pick winners and losers in the US airline industry."  Incredible.  [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]The reality is that Delta would have done exactly the same thing if given the chance, and indeed the [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]"[/SIZE]one party with a conscience" [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]has done things similar, and for precisely the same reason - to prevent competition for limited-used assets.  (Cough, operating [/SIZE]"a daily [SEA-HND] service for one week every 90 days" during winter 2014-2015, cough[SIZE=14.3999996185303px].)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]It's just that this time, the [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]"[/SIZE]one party with a conscience" [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]is on the losing end, and that makes some people unhappy.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]The "one party with a conscience."  [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Wow.  That is a good one.  [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Another day, another hilarious quote![/SIZE]

 

[WorldTraveler]

hope you find it hilarious.

The US is a country built on laws.

The entire relationship between AA, WN, and the governments involved has ignored one law after another in order to pursue a solution to the problem that the City of Dallas failed to bulldoze the runways at DAL if they didn't want it used for commercial service.

I said before and I will say again that the chances are real high that the whole thing will be challenged because all parties were too stupid to realize that all they had to do was lock out the one party who had the most reason to take it all to court.

Six lousy flights is all DL was willing to settle for.

Instead, the chances are high that the whole DAL/DFW/AA/WN relationship will be reviewed and could well be dismantled.

and, btw, if it happens, AA is likely to come out better than WN in the process simply because AA could win back the right to serve DAL and DFW has plenty of space to accommodate WN.

the notion that WN can occupy 80% plus of the gates at DAL while restricting other carriers as well as that AA and WN are both barred from serving any airport they choose plus the int'l restrictions from DAL are what will likely be challenged.

think it thru, commavia. I know that is a high bar to ask you to jump over but give it your best shot.

if you did, you might find out that AA might actually come out ahead by letting DL lead the charge.

 

[topDawg]

I'm no lawyer, but this seems like a pretty easy "solution" to me - the City can just put on a nice little show trial of "forcing" one or multiple of the incumbent airlines (Southwest, United, Virgin) to sublease to Delta, and then those airlines simply schedule their gates - on which they have preferential use access - at all the prime times of the day, leaving commercially unattractive times for Delta (which is probably what will happen, anyway, no matter what).
 
That seems legal, and accomplishes the same "goal" that - I agree with Delta - the City, Southwest and United are all tacitly working towards.  That way the City and the incumbents can plausibly say to Delta, "we're happy to sublease to you, and we're sorry if you didn't find the available times of 1000-1045, 1330-1415 and 2130-2215 acceptable."

If Dallas did that they would have the crap sued right out of them. Any kind of paper trail that UA/VX/WN and Dallas are working together to block any airline out of DAL like you said would be so ugly it won't even be funny. 
 

WT, PLEASE explain How AA help create the Duopoly???

AA was one of the master mind behind WA. 

 

[commavia]

If Dallas did that they would have the crap sued right out of them. Any kind of paper trail that UA/VX/WN and Dallas are working together to block any airline out of DAL like you said would be so ugly it won't even be funny.  

 
No - no need for a paper trail.  Separate actors with shared interests move in parallel - even if not outright cooperating - to achieve mutually-preferable outcomes all the time - in the airline industry, and elsewhere in life - without a single shred of "paper" ever being produced.  In this case, I actually agree with Delta that it does appear - to one extent or another - that, at a minimum, Southwest and United, and perhaps also the City of Dallas, have all taken actions independently of each other that, while carried out separately, all appear to reflect a common goal among these parties.  On the other hand, I also question the ability of Delta to successfully challenge these actors' independent, self-interested actions as illegal.  We'll see.

 

[WorldTraveler]

they don't have to act together in order to be in violation of the law which provides for access to all competitors.

again, WN is the one that stands to lose the most.

don't think that AA will jump in with both feet if it means they have the opportunity to regain access to DAL and force WN to fly from DFW.

If Dallas did that they would have the crap sued right out of them. Any kind of paper trail that UA/VX/WN and Dallas are working together to block any airline out of DAL like you said would be so ugly it won't even be funny. 
 
AA was one of the master mind behind WA.

I know there were things we agreed upon.

 

[700UW]

And DL is not a new entrant, how many times are you going to play that card which isnt true?
 
Well using your illogical ideas, then every airline should sue Delta and the Port Authority to make DL give other airlines slots and gate space at LGA.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm no lawyer, but this seems like a pretty easy "solution" to me - the City can just put on a nice little show trial of "forcing" one or multiple of the incumbent airlines (Southwest, United, Virgin) to sublease to Delta, and then those airlines simply schedule their gates - on which they have preferential use access - at all the prime times of the day, leaving commercially unattractive times for Delta (which is probably what will happen, anyway, no matter what).
 
That seems legal, and accomplishes the same "goal" that - I agree with Delta - the City, Southwest and United are all tacitly working towards.  That way the City and the incumbents can plausibly say to Delta, "we're happy to sublease to you, and we're sorry if you didn't find the available times of 1000-1045, 1330-1415 and 2130-2215 acceptable."

 
I think this is the ultimate outcome as well. How does one objectively decide what "equal"- or even reasonable- access means, and what if what is decided harms the lease holder?

 

[swamt]

father, you, or who was a former DL employee that was FORCED to go to work for WN after DL closed DFW as a hub?

that's all we need to know.

Really?  Hook-Line-and-sinker,  boy I got a big one, LOL...