Southwest Airlines wants American Airlines’ two gates at Love Field

[AdAstraPerAspera]

 

 

 

 
What do I have to prove? All I know is what I have heard second-hand, I never claimed otherwise. You, however, are trying to convince me that because of WN's SIZE they must somehow be making money, which is absurd. 
 
Like I said, WN obviously went into DEN thinking that F9 would eventually go away and they would have it to themselves. That hasn't happened, and it's not going to happen. SO, southwest just has to settle in and make a rotten go at it, and all evidence points to DEN being a place were yields go to die. If you can dispute that, go ahead… but all you seem to do is post about WN's growth and market share which means nothing when it comes to making money in Denver, a town with three different airlines all battling it out, and only one that seems to be making money: Frontier.

 

[WNMECH]

 
What do I have to prove? All I know is what I have heard second-hand, I never claimed otherwise. You, however, are trying to convince me that because of WN's SIZE they must somehow be making money, which is absurd. 
 
Like I said, WN obviously went into DEN thinking that F9 would eventually go away and they would have it to themselves. That hasn't happened, and it's not going to happen. SO, southwest just has to settle in and make a rotten go at it, and all evidence points to DEN being a place were yields go to die. If you can dispute that, go ahead… but all you seem to do is post about WN's growth and market share which means nothing when it comes to making money in Denver, a town with three different airlines all battling it out, and only one that seems to be making money: Frontier.

 
I have already proven you wrong on who is the #1 airline in Denver.
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1&Airport=DEN&Airport_Name=Denver,%20CO:%20Denver%20International&carrier=FACTS
WN has been growing and gaining share in Denver.
WHY? So they can lose more and more money? Pure genius.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

 
I have already proven you wrong on who is the #1 airline in Denver.
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1&Airport=DEN&Airport_Name=Denver,%20CO:%20Denver%20International&carrier=FACTS
WN has been growing and gaining share in Denver.
WHY? So they can lose more and more money? Pure genius.

 
Ok, I am sorry, I didn't know that WN was now the biggest carrier in Denver. And I am also sorry for hurting your feelings when I dared to post on an internet bulletin board a rumor I heard from some WN friends that Denver hasn't exactly been a money making machine for WN. Clearly you have taken that personally, and I am sorry if that miffed you in some way. I admit, I don't have a super secret source of revenue numbers for the DEN operation. But unless you have such a source, I am going to go with my gut and my friends and continue to believe that rumor is true, because I can read between the lines. I hope this doesn't upset you too much.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

v

 

[WNMECH]

 
Ok, I am sorry, I didn't know that WN was now the biggest carrier in Denver. And I am also sorry for hurting your feelings when I dared to post on an internet bulletin board a rumor I heard from some WN friends that Denver hasn't exactly been a money making machine for WN. Clearly you have taken that personally, and I am sorry if that miffed you in some way. I admit, I don't have a super secret source of revenue numbers for the DEN operation. But unless you have such a source, I am going to go with my gut and my friends and continue to believe that rumor is true, because I can read between the lines. I hope this doesn't upset you too much.

 
Fair enough.

 

[ChockJockey]

 
Ok, I am sorry, I didn't know that WN was now the biggest carrier in Denver.

 
That's only so if you don't count the UA Express traffic via SkyWest; doing so puts UA's operations in DEN about 3 million pax above WN's.

 

[swamt]

A JOB WELL DONE, I MUST SAY. NOW, JUST WAIT AFTER THE W/A IS GONE. JUST GOTTA LOVE THIS STUFF MAN...

 

[WorldTraveler]

swamt,
explain what you mean.

Are you saying the fall of the WA will change DEN's role for WN or that the combined strength of operations at DAL and DEN will give WN strength in key AA and UA regions?
WN will have enormous market strength in the southwest with large operations at HOU, DAL, DEN, PHX, LAS, and LAX but there comes a point when all of those "hubs" are competing for the same flow traffic which means they have to rely on local traffic.

given that Dallas-Denver is a key market which WN has not been able to serve, you may be right that can help tilt the balance of power in that part of the country in WN's favor.....

Do either of you two know when the post-WA schedules and fares are supposed to be released?

 

[WNMECH]

Do either of you two know when the post-WA schedules and fares are supposed to be released?

I don't.
I hope that WN is not forced to to it sooner than planned because of DL publishing first.

I am sure WN is planning to announce them with all due fanfare.

 

[eolesen]

WN hasn't deviated from their long established practice of only releasing schedules about 180 days in advance, so you'll have to wait until May.

Back to the off-topic DEN discussion...

DEN has always been a battlefield, and the yields do indeed suck. Frontier has survived well in the shadows of UA and WN, but only by being the alternative carrier to the big dogs.

But as I've said multiple times, DEN and SLC are geographic/geologic oddities.

WN's going to connect high-traffic destinations from those locations, and that's about all they're interested in. If the town can't support a half-dozen 24 hour Walmarts, they won't stick around.

UA & DL go after the "it's too inconvenient to drive around the mountains" crowd from all the towns who can barely support a couple of "closed at night" Walmarts.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Whether you think it makes sense or not, there are all kinds of legal issues that would be raised...

...I'm willing to wait and see how it all plays out but I would be absolutely shocked if the settlement agreement is allowed to proceed as it was announced...

Well son, you can be shocked now.

...DL is absolutely working the halls of Congress to push its cause

How did that work out?

...WN does not deserve the privileged status it has and that small and medium towns will suffer as LFCs.

Of course WN did not 'earn' what it has?

They didn't even need to use Bankruptcy to get that "privileged" status.

Maybe they have learned the art of "working the halls of congress" better than Ma Delta?

And There you go using your own made up term of "LFC"

 

[robbedagain]

Well son, you can be shocked now.

How did that work out?


Of course WN did not 'earn' what it has?

They didn't even need to use Bankruptcy to get that "privileged" status.

Maybe they have learned the art of "working the halls of congress" better than Ma Delta?

And There you go using your own made up term of "LFC"

how did that work out?   it did not work out good either bec DL was fooled by the Govt   or they just did not listen to WT

 

[eolesen]

And There you go using your own made up term of "LFC"

Nah, LFC has been used within the industry for a while to refer to a non-low cost carrier with low fares.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Nah, LFC has been used within the industry for a while to refer to a non-low cost carrier with low fares.

 
which would describe WN.

 

[BigMac]

U.S. Justice Department, American Airlines dispute value of slots

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA290YN20140310?irpc=932

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department said on Monday that American Airlines Group made $425 million by selling takeoff and landing slots at two busy East Coast airports, as required to win approval for the merger that set up the company.

The company's chairman challenged that figure.

The department, in a routine filing, also asked a federal judge to approve with no changes the settlement it reached with US Airways and American Airlines. That settlement ended a fight over whether the government would allow the two to merge.

The two companies formally merged in December, creating American Airlines Group Inc, but the deal requires a judge's final approval.

The Justice Department said that American Airlines was paid more than $425 million for the slots that it was required to sell at Ronald Reagan National Airport outside Washington and New York's LaGuardia International Airport.

But American Airlines Chief Executive Doug Parker said during a J.P. Morgan investor conference on Monday that American got $381 million in cash plus the 24 slots at New York's JFK it received in a swap with JetBlue Corp.

He said the proceeds were "well in excess" of what American expected to receive, adding that the slots had been appraised at about $225 million.

"I believe (that) in the DOJ (Justice Department) filing, they value that at $425 million; that's their valuation, not ours," Parker told the conference.

American Airlines Group was also required to divest 34 slots at New York LaGuardia International Airport. Southwest Airlines Co won an agreement to purchase 22 and Virgin America will buy 12.

Virgin America won eight slots at Reagan National, while New York-based JetBlue Airways won 40 slots, including two Sunday slots.

The Justice Department said that Southwest had declined the Sunday slots and that they would be returned to the Federal Aviation Administration to be reallocated.

American is also required to shed two gates each at Dallas Love Field and airports in Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles and Miami. Most of those will be sold in the next few weeks, according to a source close to the Justice Department.

In the filing with the U.S. District Court in Washington, the Justice Department's antitrust enforcers also said that consumer groups' objections to the merger of the two companies were without merit.

"The remedy is a major victory for American consumers," the Justice Department said in the filing. "By introducing new low-cost capacity and service on numerous routes around the country, it enhances the ability of LCCs (low cost carriers) to thwart industry coordination among the legacy carriers."

(Reporting by Diane Bartz and David Ingram; Editing by Jonathan Oatis)