City of Dallas tells Delta it can no longer fly out of Love Field

[southwind]

Nice of SWA to throw DL a bone and let them use one gate until January.

I hope they can all work out a solution that is best for the pax.

"We have let Delta know that we are willing to potentially accommodate them on a portion of a gate through January 6, 2015, in order to avoid inconveniencing passengers booked on Delta flights from Love Field during that time, Southwest vice president and general counsel Mark Shaw said Wednesday evening. Our discussions with Delta are ongoing. Any accommodation is subject to agreement between Southwest and Delta covering reasonable terms and conditions. We hope and expect to conclude these discussions quickly."

 
Yep, doubt, very seriously, if SW wants to get into any kind of slugfest with DL, concerning ATL.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yep, doubt, very seriously, if SW wants to get into any kind of slugfest with DL, concerning ATL.

I know I will regret asking this, but how did you deduce anything relating to ATL from my post?

Seeing how you just called out someone else on this forum about their lack of business acumen, why not let us know your view.

I am guessing that you are not an English nor a business major, but I could be mistaken.

Just for giggles, feel free to share your take on things.

 

[WorldTraveler]

WN, quite frankly, woke up and realized the enormous risk they face if DL decides to escalate it.

This was always NOT a question of right or wrong but who was going to blink first.

You can't tell me or anyone in any court that the 30th busiest airport in the US can only accommodate 3 jet carriers and one of them can occupy 80% of the gates.

WN wisely decided to give DL is 6 little flights or face a legal challenge that could cost a whole lot more.

WN is aggressive but it is run by sharp people who know when it is worth fighting and when it is not.

and DL is equally aggressive, also run by sharp people who when it is worth fighting and when it is worth keep fighting.


WN didn't do this because they are friendly but solely because they knew they risked far too much at the hands of an angry DL.

as I said and to the great chagrin of a couple WN mechanics, DL will be at DAL post Wright.

 

[robbedagain]

Itll be interesting to see what happe s after jan 6 when swa starts oak and sfo from dal what will the almighty wiget do

 

[metopower]

Probably still fly out of DAL as they do today.

 

[swamt]

And Delta, NOW, would not be at LF post W/A if it was not for SWA being so nice to allow them to use a gate until such gate will be fully utilized after 1-6-15.  Where is the thanks?  Where is the thank you SWA for not disrupting the passengers?   Just shows you and the public that it is not SWA refusing to allow Delta to fly it is in fact the COD led by the restrictions and orders of the DOJ, plain and simple.  Great move by SWA to save the passengers at LF, and as WN stated, they will soon be SWA customers.  Fantastic move by SWA.  Maybe this will be the gate SWA offers temporarily:
 
Southwest CEO says it will use United gates at Love Field for overflow

 

[robbedagain]

What type aircraft does dl operate currently

 

[southwind]

I know I will regret asking this, but how did you deduce anything relating to ATL from my post?

Seeing how you just called out someone else on this forum about their lack of business acumen, why not let us know your view.

I am guessing that you are not an English nor a business major, but I could be mistaken.

Just for giggles, feel free to share your take on things.

 
My bad, didn't mean to infringe upon your forum rights.
 
All I did was point out that I'm sure SW decided that playing nice with DL now, might benefit them later............and all that said, without attacking you!
 
Now, blow it out your ass, it's what you seem to do best!

 

[WNMECH]

WN, quite frankly, woke up and realized the enormous risk they face if DL decides to escalate it.

This was always NOT a question of right or wrong but who was going to blink first.

You can't tell me or anyone in any court that the 30th busiest airport in the US can only accommodate 3 jet carriers and one of them can occupy 80% of the gates.

WN wisely decided to give DL is 6 little flights or face a legal challenge that could cost a whole lot more.

WN is aggressive but it is run by sharp people who know when it is worth fighting and when it is not.

and DL is equally aggressive, also run by sharp people who when it is worth fighting and when it is worth keep fighting.


WN didn't do this because they are friendly but solely because they knew they risked far too much at the hands of an angry DL.

as I said and to the great chagrin of a couple WN mechanics, DL will be at DAL post Wright.

 
 
You claim victory in the first quarter of the game. 
 
 
Wn was not forced to share gates at this time, they are offering voluntary accommodation for a limited time until jan 6 when WN will claim their schedules conflict.
There is a process and the only way Delta gets space is if a lease holder is not using its gates to full capacity.
A some point soon(WN says Jan 6) Wn will be at a capacity where they will not voluntarily accommodate Delta.
At some other point they will be using their gates to the capacity that they wont be able to accommodate Delta on a forced basis either.
That is when Delta will either have to use United's or VX gates or leave Love Field.
That is the point when Delta will have to decide if they have a shot in court.
 
This process will have to play out but WN will keep FULL preferential use of their 16 gates as long as they are FULLY used.
 
 
I have posted the links that explain the process of a entrant requesting to be accommodated and how the final result will be determined.
I will try one last time.
This is the plain English straight from the new Love Field leases.
Pay attention to the parts in RED.
 
There is more in the lease at the link below if you want to read it in its entirety. I cut and pasted to save space.
 
http://www.4eval.com/Dallas/AVI/Forms/Exhibit%202%20-%2003-24-09%20-%20Use%20and%20Lease%20Agreement%20-%20Master%20-%20FINAL).pdf
 
 
 
4. To the extent a new entrant carrier seeks to begin service at the Airport, the City will seek voluntary accommodation from its existing airline lessees to accommodate the new entrant service as provided for in Section 4.06.E below. If the existing carriers are not able or are not willing to accommodate the new entrant service, then the City agrees to require the sharing of Airlines’ Preferential Use Space and Gates, also as provided for in Section 4.06.E below.
 
C. Preferential Rights to the Use of Gates. Airline is granted the preferential use of its assigned Gate(s). At those times that Airline has no scheduled use for one or more of its assigned Gate(s), Airline will allow other scheduled or nonscheduled airlines authorized by City to use Airport facilities to use such Gate(s), as circumstances and the public interest may require, for loading and unloading only, but in no event shall said use by others take precedence over Airline's scheduled use. For the purposes of this subsection, the term ―scheduled use‖ shall mean a reasonable amount of time, up to thirty (30) minutes, before an aircraft arrives at a Gate and after an aircraft leaves a Gate. Further, Airline may require such non-preferential airline user to enter into an agreement with Airline to provide adequate insurance and to indemnify Airline from liability in the use of the premises.
 
 
F. Accommodation of Requesting Airlines. Airline and City agree that although most of the airline areas in the Terminal Building are or will be leased to Signatory Airlines for their exclusive or preferential use, and Terminal Building facilities at the Airport may become a scarce resource if a new entrant airline (―Requesting Airline‖) requests to provide service at the Airport. In such circumstances, Airline agrees to accommodate such Requesting Airline at its Leased Premises at such times that will not unduly interfere with its operating schedule and upon such reasonable terms as may be agreed upon between Airline and the Requesting Airlines, taking into consideration all the circumstances of such an accommodation agreement. In order to facilitate City’s role in the accommodation procedure outlined in 1-4 below, Airline shall provide City with a monthly report tracking Airline’s Gate assignment and Gate usage data. To insure compliance with this obligation and to provide open access and uniform treatment for all airline tenants, the following procedure is established:
 
1. All requests for airline accommodation in the terminal facilities will be received by the DOA.
2.
In the event the Requesting Airline has demonstrated to the DOA that it has contacted all airlines and has exhausted all reasonable efforts to secure accommodations, the Director will notify all Signatory Airlines in writing that if Requesting Airline is not accommodated within thirty (30) days from the receipt of notice, the Director will select one of the Signatory Airlines to comply with the request for accommodation in a non-
discriminatory manner.
3. At the end of said thirty (30) day period, if the Requesting Airline has not been accommodated, the Director may select a Signatory Airline to accommodate the Requesting Airline and, in that event, will send written notice to that Signatory Airline to accommodate Requesting Airline within thirty (30) days from the receipt of said notice. The Director will include in such notice the reason or reasons why the particular Signatory Airline was selected. The selected Signatory Airline will have ten (10) days after receipt of said notice to comment on or dispute such selection.
4. Unless the Director rescinds such selection within said thirty (30) day period, the Signatory Airline will accommodate the Requesting Airline by sharing a portion of its Leased Premises (ticket counter positions, baggage make-up area, holdroom, aircraft parking position, passenger loading bridge and other appurtenant equipment reasonably necessary for the effective use of such space), subject to the following conditions:
a. In case of a conflict between schedules of the Signatory Airline and the Requesting Airline, the Signatory Airline will have priority in use of its personnel and its Leased Premises,
b. If requested to accommodate another carrier pursuant to this paragraph, the Signatory Airline will use its good faith efforts to effect such accommodation in a reasonable and equitable manner.

 

[WorldTraveler]

And Delta, NOW, would not be at LF post W/A if it was not for SWA being so nice to allow them to use a gate until such gate will be fully utilized after 1-6-15.  Where is the thanks?  Where is the thank you SWA for not disrupting the passengers?   Just shows you and the public that it is not SWA refusing to allow Delta to fly it is in fact the COD led by the restrictions and orders of the DOJ, plain and simple.  Great move by SWA to save the passengers at LF, and as WN stated, they will soon be SWA customers.  Fantastic move by SWA.  Maybe this will be the gate SWA offers temporarily:
 
Southwest CEO says it will use United gates at Love Field for overflow

WN isn't doing this out of the goodness of their heart but SOLELY because they see an enormous LEGAL and COMPETITIVE RISK by pushing DL's button.

DL will be at DAL because DL's case for being there is ironclad.

If it weren't WN, undoubtedly at the bidding of DAL, wouldn't have budged.

WN blinked, not DL.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

There isn't a measure in the industry that includes the size of the building but rather operations, seats, passengers handled.

On that measure, DAL will be among the top tier of airports in the US.
 

WRONG!
For 2013, DAL, in terms of passenger boardings is about or more prescisely less than 1/10th the size of ATL making it the 44th busiest in the USA (at least according to information found here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_the_United_States  ).
 
It never ceases to amaze me how often you make wild claims, fabricate definitions, draw incorrect conclusions and when called out pathetically try to squirm out.  I'm actually looking forward to you trying to spin out of this blunder.  What are you going to say?  Top tier means top 50?

 

[WorldTraveler]

in case you missed it, the world all changes in a couple days at DAL.

what happened last week or today has no bearing on what happens in the future.

Based on currently published schedules, DAL will be around the 30th largest airport in the US in terms of passenger seats offered.

DAL and WN both know that there is no justification whatsoever for DAL being one of the few, if not only, large airport in the US that does not have common use gates and which can only accommodate 3 jet carriers.

To try to argue that TPA should have only 3 airlines is unthinkable. TPA is the next highest airport on the ranking and TPA DOES have other airports in the vicinity as well.

DAL thought it should be UA's responsibility to share its gates and based on gate usage, that may be true. but the rules don't say WHICH airline has to accommodate other carriers. UA is playing tough which could mean that WN might be the one that has to accommodate DAL or else DAL has to spread DL's schedule over all 3 carriers.

WN and DAL knows there is substantial legal risk to trying to fight DL and decided instead to blink. DAL will be forced to find a long-term solution but what is very clear is that saying "we are full and only 3 jet carriers will serve DAL will not ever fly in an airport that receives federal funds and is as large as DAL.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

.
Based on currently published schedules, DAL will be around the 30th largest airport in the US in terms of passenger seats offered.

 
Nicely done spin master.
 
 

 
 
I love the selective metric you used - passenger seats offered. 
It's interesting that in your world that is how airports are ranked. 
Not on # of passengers or # of operations.
 
So 30th is "top tier" in your world.
 
Try this data:  http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/passenger_allcargo_stats/passenger/media/cy13-commercial-service-enplanements.pdf
DAL is #44 in the USA in terms of passenger enplanments.

 

[robbedagain]

Frugal its truly amazin how he spins it to fit his narratives

 

[Kev3188]

Everyone knows the only metrics that matter are the number of Sbarro's or Panda Express outlets any air terminal has.
 
The rest? White noise...