Change of Control Update

[mike33]

No we have hired some east metal people as well as west not sure what the exact number is.
But I do think there are more west agents than east.

That's because you don't work in a previously outsourced station....The Interim transition agreement says....

C. At airport locations where America West and US Airways have flight operations and
Fleet Service employees, the following Interim Transition provisions will apply:
1. Employees of US Airways and America West will continue to perform normal
work under the terms of their respective CBA except that the Airline Parties may
direct fleet service employees of either carrier to assist employees of the opposite
carrier.

D. During the term of Interim Transition Period should America West have Fleet Service
vacancies in DEN, MCI, MKE, MSP, PHX, SAN, SEA, then (prior to hiring new hire
employees) such vacancies will be made available to furloughed East Fleet Service
employees from the same station as the vacant position.
1. Furloughed East Fleet Service employees interested in filling a fleet service
vacancy in their station, as described above, must submit to US Airways a PE-66
transfer request. Available vacancies will be offered to the senior furloughed
employee from that station (based on Fleet Service Seniority) with a PE-66 transfer
request on file at the time the vacancy is filled.

I agree with you on what the interim TA specifies, but, Show me anywhere where you see AMERICA WEST in your services to this company. Nowhere.
It doesent exist. Maybe you remember when AA bought AirCal.....kind of the same deal...AMERICA West has no opening anymore USairways does.

Bottom line: IAM didn't cover all the bases for their most senior dues paying members..Who would want to come back at 9$ hr anyway. Thats all I have to say on the subject

End of story

sunofsamsonite

 

[orioleman]

mike33,
You got to remember , Mr FUZZ is in this for himself, works in dfw and is a BIG supporter of the IAM

so talking to him is just a waste of your typing skills.. choose to ignore and your BP will go down trust me..

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
just curious WHY would you be on the COC board since You already figured out that it is a lost cause

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

The company's arguments are so pathetic I couldn't get through the
first page. They're saying that US Airways has miraculously emerged
from bankrupcy with the help from America West and a few unrelated
"benifactors"? That's completely absurd.

Laws are made to be fair, consistent , understandable and unambiguous
as possible. The IAM lawyers have done a great job here. As far
as I can tell the only vunerable spot would be concerning the lanquage
of "all or substatially all" as it relates to CIC. But IMO it's grasping
at straws and speaks little to the reality of the situation as the IAM
has argued.

We won't know the ruling for a while but for me just the clarity
of these arguments represents a victory for truth.

Oh dude, I would agree with you whole heartedly there! I find it funny they argue the semantics of "all or substantially all." Us Airways argument was a joke in regards to this. They tried to argue that 50% here, 10% there is not "SUBSTANTIALLY ALL. "They feel that "substantially all" would constitute 98% of the stock to ONE entity. What I hope the judge rules is that ALL of their stock was given to a diverse group of investers.

I think the IAM has locked this one up because they supported their "all or substantially all" argument, and the explination of the distribution of stocks, with numerous precedents from previous court cases and state laws. Just like you say, laws were put in place to be fair, consistent , understandable and unambiguous
as possible. Well played IAM.

 

[freedom]

I ASSUME it’s a lost cause , I like everyone else wanted to read the two briefs that the arbiter will use to interpret the case . Even a poor argument has a chance at winning if it’s presented properly against an unprepared or disorganized opponent .

From a brief read through I’d say that the Companies argument is written more professionally and ours not so much . Also our brief has been PDF’ed crooked ! I didn’t understand all of the terminology so I’m going to try and re-read both of the briefs when I have more time to try and figure it better .. One thing that looked weak in the IAM case is where they start trying to assert that 52% is a sale of all or most of the companies assets etc , at least I think that’s what their trying to say ?! ?

 

[orioleman]

Freedom,
"From a brief read through I’d say that the Companies argument is written more professionally and ours not so much"

so being a big IAM person that you are.. Do you feel like this UNION has represented you well . IMO I SAY NOT

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

I agree freedom, I found that the USAIR argument was professionally put together, and the index of arguments made it flow well. The IAM argument had random sources in the middle of the main arguments. It made it tougher to read, but then again, I don't have much experience in reading these legal documents.

Great point Oreoman, I've been thinking that since they sent those REPS to our breakroom and they all were clueless.

 

[orioleman]

PO'ed
You say you think the IAM locked this up , then my ?? to all the IAM loyalist is .. WHY did they want to give this away

maybe because the sleep next to Doug every night

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

I would just say that Doug knew he didn't have a leg to stand on in court. The simplest answer is probably the correct one!

 

[freedom]

I wonder , if the case is lost , will you blame the union oriole man? Because it’s NOT the union that subjected you too pay cuts ,furloughs and class two cities . Will you blame the union for closing the Pittsburg hub ?Is it perhaps somehow the unions fault that US AIRWAYS continues to pay it’s honest , HARD WORKING former America West workers dirt poor wages when everything from the cost of gas to milk is going higher ? I wonder ,can we blame our union for the unethical behavior of our senior management in showering gifts and prizes upon our Philadelphia workers ,while all that our workers here in PHX get is a barbeque for a summer of back breaking labor ? Perhaps you should also take a moment to call out our union for letting this management team succeed beyond most union busters wildest dreams in turning union against union and stalling contract after contract . Curse the IAM , curse them for everything that they have failed to make perfect in my life and your life and in the entire world .

 

[700UW]

Before I left US I was on the M&R Negotiating Committee.

After the merger was announced, it was several months after ratification of the final offers for both 141 and 142, we as 142 met and mapped out a strategy of how to proceed, it was a CBA violation, nothing to do with chapter 11 filing.

Both Districts met in DC with the International, Sharon Levine our bankruptcy lawyer and Bob Bush, a labor lawyer who has presented most of 141s and 141Ms arbitration cases.

The IAM could not file until the merger was complete and all the documents were filed with SEC, DOT and DOJ.

US had all ready emerged from bankruptcy, both the District and Bankrupcty courts ruled it was a contractual matter therefore it was to be heard under the grievance procedure.

All the documents in regard to the former officers getting paid showed "change of control".

Mr Bloch knows the M&R CBA inside and out and like I have said in the past, he gave the IAM the victory in the Airbus Outsourcing.

IMO it is a slam dunk for the unions and the IAM should prevail, but I think Doogie will try and go to court and get it overturned, but they will fail.

Also the company never asked for the language to be removed, therefore is stands.

Also I do agree with Fleet for voting down their tentative agreement, they should have followed 142s lead and never agree to anything until the COC is resolved.

I know us as a negotiating committee see the COC as payback to Hemenway for what they forced upon the M&R group in the last bankrupcty.

 

[Henderfuzz]

mike33,
You got to remember , Mr FUZZ is in this for himself, works in dfw and is a BIG supporter of the IAM

so talking to him is just a waste of your typing skills.. choose to ignore and your BP will go down trust me..

You can think what you will about me but Ive talked to a lot of people who feel the way I do.
To delay a new deal futher would be a big mistake. My cost continue to go up but my pay stays the same and we are doing even more work . Im tired of all this.
I hope we win this I do but when its over its over lets move forward from this and get a good deal and stop this demanding unrealistic demands.

 

[The Bagfather]

Everyone read 700's remarks above. They are uncommonly clear
and IMO correct. Again 700 desearves credit for his contribution
to this subject.

 

[The Bagfather]

You can think what you will about me but Ive talked to a lot of people who feel the way I do.
To delay a new deal futher would be a big mistake. My cost continue to go up but my pay stays the same and we are doing even more work . Im tired of all this.
I hope we win this I do but when its over its over lets move forward from this and get a good deal and stop this demanding unrealistic demands.

Fuzz: No one that I know of is making any demands. I am
not it any possition to demand anything from any one. But
there are a lot of people dissapointed in the conduct of DL141
enough to want to oust them.

Maybe you think that many of us have unreal expectations. But I
for one do not think that looking for a fair and just outcome
to the COC is an unreal expectation. Having 141 negotiate
for the west however is unrealistic. The company is
going to do anything it can to reduce costs. Only when
the fever to reduce costs starts costing something will they
change. That's a given except maybe with a company like
WN or how they used to be.

So it's up to our union to counter this. If they're not up to it
they need to go. They got us into this as much as the company
You are hurting finantially because of this as are many. But
for the west is was the IAM which let the company do an
end run around the TWU contract. The East has the COC
which 141 was willing to drop.

Both the company and the IAM tried to use people like you
to get an easy contract. The more time that goes by the
less the east will be willing to give up. Their is no solution
to this. There is one possibility for the west and that is negotiating
the TWU contract. But they never intended nor will they ever
open negotiations.

The Company could unilaterally raise pay for whoever they want.
but they would rather have people quit. And they want
people to be hurting as much as possible during any contract
negotiations. Thanks BF

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
"I wonder , if the case is lost , will you blame the union oriole man?"

answer : NO I don't blame the union because IT will be up to the arbitrator who decides, and I am fine with that
its a risk one way or another.

"Because it’s NOT the union that subjected you too pay cuts"

Your D-mn right I blame the union THEY are the ones that agreed with the bk contract. But what would you know
about that it was before your time.

go refill your glass .. your kool aid is about gone

700UW
I have to give you credit . for once I do agree with what you said