ITT News Update: August 16, 2011

[BoeingBoy]

SH,

From my perspective an outsider watching the negotiation process (never in the room), Parker's single big mistake was his insistence on a "cost neutral" combined contract. Because "cost neutral would have guaranteed concessions by one or both sides, that guaranteed no movement for the first year and a half of the merger. If he had put the $120 million that the Kirby proposal supposedly represented on the table initially, everything would have probably been settled when the arbitrator announced his award. The last 4+ years of ejecting ALPA, legal wrangling over the seniority integration, and now the company/USAPA fight could have been avoided. I can understand why he wanted "cost neutral" at the time - the whole merger was predicated on "old" US having about the same labor cost/seat mile as HP and giving the biggest side contract improvements without taking something back to offset that destroyed the employee cost savings - but in 20/20 hindsight it was an expensive mistake.

The union on both sides insisted that Parker stay out of the seniority issue - not unusual since that's normally the case in mergers. Seniority is for the two sides to work out and not for the CEO to dictate ant more than the CEO can dictate contract terms in union settings. Parker didn't intrude on the FA, mechanic, ramper, customer service, or dispatcher seniority settlements so why would he have done so with the pilots at that time?

As someone else said, the transition agreement spelled out the process of integrating seniority. It said ALPA policy because ALPA represented both sides through the respective MEC's, but if it had said the process would be a fist-fight between MEC chairmen with the victor getting to integrate seniority any way he/she chose the same would be true. Both sides, East and West representatives, agreed to the process specified.

Likewise with the joint statement of labor principles - Lakefield and Parker specified what they considered fair in the seniority integration. While in no way binding on either pilot group, it provided a framework for what the two CEO's considered fair.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

Do you agree that in the very very beginning a deal would have been possible with some leadership and guidance?

No. The deal didn't break down because of a lack of management leadership. The deal broke down because ALPA was leveraging their position with USAirways pilots by abandoning the AWA pilots and backing away from supporting the Nicolau decision. That display of weakness emboldened USAPA and allowed it to come into existence.

If Prater had the nerve to put both MEC's into custodianship and signed the joint contract (AWA, basically with the Nic) then he could have said he did all he could and completed the process. Let the chips fall where they may.

 

[SparrowHawk]

SH,

From my perspective an outsider watching the negotiation process (never in the room), Parker's single big mistake was his insistence on a "cost neutral" combined contract. Because "cost neutral would have guaranteed concessions by one or both sides, that guaranteed no movement for the first year and a half of the merger. If he had put the $120 million that the Kirby proposal supposedly represented on the table initially, everything would have probably been settled when the arbitrator announced his award. The last 4+ years of ejecting ALPA, legal wrangling over the seniority integration, and now the company/USAPA fight could have been avoided. I can understand why he wanted "cost neutral" at the time - the whole merger was predicated on "old" US having about the same labor cost/seat mile as HP and giving the biggest side contract improvements without taking something back to offset that destroyed the employee cost savings - but in 20/20 hindsight it was an expensive mistake.
Jim

Totally forgot about his insistence on "Cost Neutral" Jeez the high cost of cheap even extends to labor negotiations and yet now there is a very good possibility that Jerry Glass will earn more in billable hours to US Airways than Doug does in Salary.

BYW, anyone know what Seham has billed USAPA?

So, in the end it all comes back to Doug's Bean Counter mentality and yet another example of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. Well at least Doug is consistent. :angry: :angry:

Hanging out here is more fun than Jerry Springer, Maury Povich, Jersey Shore and all the Housewives shows rolled into one. not to mention Salon Makeover with that British witch Tabitha. I tell ya it's like driving past a bad car wreck. You know you shouldn't slow down and look but you just can't help it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hanging out here is more fun than Jerry Springer, Maury Povich, Jersey Shore and all the Housewives shows rolled into one. not to mention Salon Makeover with that British witch Tabitha.

Ain't that the truth - the best free entertainment money can buy. And don't forget more twists and turn than any soap opera.

Jim

 

[SparrowHawk]

Ain't that the truth - the best free entertainment money can buy. And don't forget more twists and turn than any soap opera.

Jim

We could call it "As the Prop Turns"

 

[700UW]

As the Turbine Spins, no props at mainline, lol.

 

[signals]

I still want the rights to the next Airplane movie. It practically writes itself

 

[signals]

We could call it "As the Prop Turns"

US in search of self

 

[SparrowHawk]

How about a remake of the Three Stooges?

Starring:

Doug Parker as Moe
Scott Kirby as Larry
Robert Isom as Schemp

 

[Barrister]

Do you agree that in the very very beginning a deal would have been possible with some leadership and guidance?

Look I don't think anyone thought the folks on the East would dig in like they have. I'm open to opinion to the contrary, however it is my feeling that had Parker inserted himself into the mix early on, we probably wouldn't be here right now or at least not on this topic

Things like that happen when a 17 year never furloughed pilot is place junior to a new hire who has not transported one single passeger for U.S. Airways/Am West
you can ultimately blame a LAZY AS HELL arbitrator who could have adjusted for this SEVERE imbalance........why don't we ask what should the 17 years
on propery bought him in the new company.....sure as hell not below a new hire....IT BE WHAT IT BE!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Things like that happen when a 17 year never furloughed pilot is place junior to a new hire who has not transported one single passeger for U.S. Airways/Am West
you can ultimately blame a LAZY AS HELL arbitrator who could have adjusted for this SEVERE imbalance........why don't we ask what should the 17 years
on propery bought him in the new company.....sure as hell not below a new hire....IT BE WHAT IT BE!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

How much SENIORITY did that 17 year east pilot have?

 

[Claxon]

ITT News Update: August 16, 2011

Click here to view ITT News' Update for August 16, 2011. This video should be viewed twice to get the most out of it. Once to listen to the news report and then again to read the scrolling news, which is at least as funny, interesting, and informative as the the news report itself.

View it. This is exactly what the western excel at. This is just part of the multi faceted western attack. They very likely printed the propaganda they attribute to USAPA. They certainly had a hand in the texting scheme.


Sf bulls

 

[BoeingBoy]

Things like that happen when a 17 year never furloughed pilot is place junior to a new hire who has not transported one single passeger for U.S.

Don't know which airline is U.S. The old Air America run by the CIA perhaps....

Seriously, I assume you're talking about Colello. I know all the arguments claiming that the MDA pilots were mainline, don't bother repeating them. But here are a couple of facts - both the MEC and company considered them furloughed from mainline. It was only after the merger was announced that even the MDA pilots started arguing that they were really mainline and not furloughed. Maybe someday that mess known as MDA will be sorted out by a judge, but until then the official MEC and company ("old" US) position was that they were furloughed. Any claims to the contrary are just that - claims, not fact.

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

Things like that happen when a 17 year never furloughed pilot is place junior to a new hire who has not transported one single passeger for U.S. Airways/Am West
you can ultimately blame a LAZY AS HELL arbitrator who could have adjusted for this SEVERE imbalance........why don't we ask what should the 17 years
on propery bought him in the new company.....sure as hell not below a new hire....IT BE WHAT IT BE!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

What was the relative seniority of that 17 year pilot? And do you think putting a seven year continuously employed west pilot next to an east pilot who was furloughed for most of his seven years is fair?

 

[Move2CLT]

... but until then the official MEC and company ("old" US) position was that they were furloughed. Any claims to the contrary are just that - claims, not fact.

Jim

100% correct.