Calling ALL Cockroaches - Customers Only

[Bobbie]

Your group ffocus has been trying to extort perks from US Airways off the backs of employees for years.

I believe the way it works is that I, the customer, am paying the airline to perform a service for me. And if they don't perform that service well, I feel that I've gotten a poor value and don't feel like flying that airline again.

I no longer fly US Airways. Yes, I've left. Sure, there's the occasional flight, but my 150k per year is going to another airline now and you won't ever hear me mentioning names. Find your own airline of choice. Mine costs less to fly than US Airways and provides superior levels of a much higher level of service.

As the customer, I'm the ultimate paymaster. Without me, your company crumbles. I don't give a care at all about the price of fuel. That's the airline's problem. They need to appropriately price their tickets. A business that sells everything at a loss is not a business anyone should be in. These airlines are the spineless ones...scared to death of increasing fares.

I don't like being nickel and dimed. I like to know that when I buy a ticket, I'm getting something for it. At this stage of the game, what else are they going to charge for? Why the hell would I buy a ticket if it includes NOTHING. What is the ticket for? Is that just for the ability to pass through security with a boarding pass? Will I have to pay a fee to board the plane, sit down, use the lavatory, etc. Give me a package deal at a reasonable profit above your cost. I'll pay it. I know a lot of people will.

Anyone who can't afford a ticket shouldn't be flying...they should be using a cheaper form of transit. I've been subsidizing ma and pa's $200 round-trip to palm beach for years. I say to hell with them and let them walk. This "affordable air travel" concept has failed. It's time for us to elevate ourselves into an era when flying on airplanes is reserved for those who can afford it. The drearies and normals can stick to buses and trains. That gives incentive for the regular people to rise up, achieve higher, and maybe some day can fly on a plane. Further, this turns air travel from being a commodity into being a product that people can enjoy and appreciate.

PRICE IT APPROPRIATELY: Those who can afford it, will pay it. Those who can't, walk. Period.

The CUSTOMERS pay the bills at an airline. And you should treat them as such.

 

[nostradamus]

Nost,

First of all, I left a year ago. One too many lies.

Second, it ain't all about us. We support any CONSTRUCTIVE ideas to save the company. Taking away bonus miles is just plain stupid and will drive business away, not retain or attract more. And watch as no one else cancels bonus miles.

We are not extorting--we are trying to force change. We agree that times are unprecedentedly bad. We have no problem with judicious and proper fare increases. The fees and the nickel and diming will cause MORE stress for the front line, and will cause delays and problems as people carry more on board to dodge the fee for bags.

We may disagree on methods, but we want the same in the end. Sorry to say your management doesn't have a clue....

And by the way other airlines are instituting a balance of fees and fare increases but are also taking steps to incentivize their most loyal customers....the opposite of what US has done.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree here.

I appreciate your class. I agree that we disagree.

You would think that the ffocus group would save all these good ideas and open up their own airline and make millions.

 

[SpinDoc]

Simple answer that the kids in Tempe don't understand. Raise the fares and stop the nickel and diming of your best customers. The bread and butter, the business flyer understands that fares have to go up.

Oh I have forgotten that most of those VFF have left US, and the Kettles will not pay the higher fares and you about to find out they will not pay the extra fees.

Oh what a tangled web the kids in Tempe have woven.....

Greg:

To explain the fare game in simple terms, the internet has placed tremendous pricing power in the hands of the consumer through fare finders on more than 100 web sites. When a customer searches for the lowest fare in a particular market, the results will always yield the lowest fare for their specified travel dates. The majority of the time, the carrier is transparent to the kettles as they are only seeking the lowest fare possible to reach their destination.

So, if UA, CO, AA, DL, NW, B6, and FL all show a fare of $212 R/T from BOS-MCO, and the lowest fare on US is $217 ($5 higher), then US is placed at the bottom of the display and never has the opportunity to compete for the ticket purchase.

This scenario is what keeps ALL of the airlines from making necessary increases in their fares because they are deathly afraid of being at the bottom of the fare displays. The only solution is to return to regulated fares which allow the airlines to increase fares in lock step and assure that each carrier is on equal footing in the fare displays.

Absent a return to regulated fares, ala carte is the only way to ensure equal billing on the fare displays, while being able to recoup some of the fuel costs that can't be passed on through independent fare increases.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Art at ISP]

I appreciate your class. I agree that we disagree.

You would think that the ffocus group would save all these good ideas and open up their own airline and make millions.

In the recent past we have been relatively effective in getting airline management to rescind or reconsider changes, which resulted in improvements for both employees and customers. Believe it or not this was a very painful decision for us. The last thing we want to do is to hurt the fine people on the front line. We are using what little leverage we have--the employees have unions. If the company pulls something on you you can strike. Well FFOCUS has become sort of a customers' union in a way. We've done a lot of good, and now it's time for us to speak up and express our displeasure.

Personally I can live with a number of the fees, ill advised as they may be. What I can't live with is the contempt in which the very frequent traveler is held by your management. All the petty moves and insults have added up, and with the elimination of bonus miles, they have crossed a line for most of our members.

I will be quite honest--ironically, I must fly US once more next week. It will be my first trip in 13 months on US and the only reason I am doing it is because I have Japanese colleagues who booked on US and I need to travel with them.

I hope I get to see some of my old friends. I have no expectations of upgrades or any special treatment. I got my exit row seats, and will be happy to look out the window or listen to my ipod for a couple of hours.

That said, that is the one and only trip I have booked on US, and we will be looking at other ways to put pressure on management.

Goes to show you that people can disagree politely and not start a fight over it....thanks for that Nost.

 

[FutureUScapt]

Excellent post, SpinDoc. Just to quantify what you've stated, if US charges a o/w fare that is only $5 more than the competition, booking have dropped by 20%!



The exorbitant price of oil has really put the airlines in a catch-22 position. Because there is no pricing power in the industry, airlines can not just "rationalize" the fares as easily as some suggest. One airline with a healthy balance sheet in particular, has truly been a thorn in the side of the industry as they have not gone along with many of the fare increases. Of course, overcapacity in th industry is also hindering airlines from being able to raise fares to a profitable level.

Passengers are upset with this new nickel and diming approach to travel, and perhaps rightfully so. US estimates that the 2nd bag charge along with the choice seats will generate approx. $100 million in revenue, while fuel costs while rise by over $2 billion! This goes to show that all of this ancillary revenue (and I'm taking about the actions of all the legacies, not just US) will NOT EVEN COME CLOSE to offsetting the cost of fuel. What it will accomplish though is pissing off the customer and possibly make them even more price sensitive.

Furthermore, IMO these recent capacity cuts will not help the industry as much as anticipated, because the capacity that needs to be removed (read: CRJs) can not be contractually eliminated in most cases. DL is taking an interesting approach to this by claiming that YV and 9E have not met certain performance standards (whether true or not); if successful, I believe that could pave the way for others to do the same.

 

[KCFlyer]

Anyone who can't afford a ticket shouldn't be flying...they should be using a cheaper form of transit. I've been subsidizing ma and pa's $200 round-trip to palm beach for years. I say to hell with them and let them walk. This "affordable air travel" concept has failed. It's time for us to elevate ourselves into an era when flying on airplanes is reserved for those who can afford it. The drearies and normals can stick to buses and trains. That gives incentive for the regular people to rise up, achieve higher, and maybe some day can fly on a plane. Further, this turns air travel from being a commodity into being a product that people can enjoy and appreciate.

PRICE IT APPROPRIATELY: Those who can afford it, will pay it. Those who can't, walk. Period.

The CUSTOMERS pay the bills at an airline. And you should treat them as such.

Bobbie...have you ever availed yourself of an upgrade from the coach seat that you paid for into a first class seat that you didn't pay for? I agree with you wholeheartedly...if you are not willing or cannot afford to pay the asking price to sit in the first class cabin, then quietly go to your coach seat and be happy. Or take the bus.

I certainly hope you aren't a member of FFUCUS who pretends to care about the employees...if the industry and this country go by your plans, hundreds of planes will be parked, they won't have a need for employees to fly them or serve drinks (with or without a charge) on them, they won't have a need for as many mechanics to repair the aircraft that are left, they won't have a need for as many reservations agents or gate/customer service agents. But it's a small price to pay so that you don't have to sit next to some "drearie or normal" on your flight.

Since you apparently do have enough to afford to pay for air travel the way it should be - I have the perfect option for you - leave the legacy airlines to the drearies and normals - for you it's one word....Netjets. That's right, buy a share of your own personal jet. Or at the very least, charter your own. It's a higher class way of travel and you aren't bothered by the great unwashed.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Hope this is helpful.

Doc

Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain. Most folks I know are VFF and therefor are not a concerned about which carrier is $10 cheaper. For us knowing we are going to get there on time most of the time and someone being willing to help when we don't makes the difference. That for me is the most important part of status and one of the reasons I left US.

With that said you are more than likely right about the Kettles and the internet. I'm sure that most will fly the cheapest carrier at least once or until they get burned by any number of issues. They may even try it a second time. I know several who had tried US in the past two years and will not be giving you another chance.

But in any case, US has hitched their wagon to these customers. My point is they are the ones that will most likely to abandon flying all together in the coming year and that spells trouble for US. Those "free" VFF perks are going to look very inexpensive in the grand scheme of things very, very soon.

Given what you posted and explained there are no easy answers for US at this point. Your management decided to wage war on the folks who contributed the most percentage margin to your bottom line and that is hurting you now and will only be compounded with the latest announcements and those to come in the future. The kids have made the employees bed and unfortunately you will the ones that will have to live with it. They will not be there to face the wrath of Ms Kettle on that 7:00 AM flight and you have to tell here that it will $2 bucks for that cup of coffee or the Mr Kettle when you tell him it will be $50 or $60 bucks to check their bags. They will continue draw their millions in compensation and you will be asked for more cuts for the airline to survive. The mistakes and missteps the kids have made are almost unbelievable and will be studied for years to come in B schools around the country, but there is no need to list them all again here.

Until labor at US rises up and holds the kids to fire, you can expect the same treatment in the future. Why? Because the employees have shown no resolve to go up against them. Just look at the post on this forum. About half of the posters here would rather attack your best customers rather than risk going against management. Until you do, nothing is going to change.

Greg

 

[Bobbie]

Bobbie...have you ever availed yourself of an upgrade from the coach seat that you paid for into a first class seat that you didn't pay for? I agree with you wholeheartedly...if you are not willing or cannot afford to pay the asking price to sit in the first class cabin, then quietly go to your coach seat and be happy. Or take the bus.

I fly First Class that I pay for. I pay for it with money earned through hard work and dedication. I don't fly coach but I'm not above it. In my earlier years, it was not uncommon to find me in the back. However, at this stage of my life, it's simply a lower priced product that represents little value to me. I've never been on any airline other than US Airways where I was involuntarily displaced from a First Class seat that I had paid for.

That's the real reason I left US Airways were two incidents where I was in paid First Class and arrived at the gate and was told that my seats were not available due to overbooking. The fact that I allowed it to happen to me even once was a lapse, I admit. The second time they displaced me, I stopped flying them. I'd also like to add that US Airways did not offer to refund the difference in those tickets between First and Coach. I got nothing. They fulfilled their obligation in the Contract of Carriage and were perfectly fine to leave me out to dry. I had to call American Express to get relief. Believe me, I did.


US Airways First Class is structured as though no one pays for it and it's all free upgrades. There's no room, filthy, worn seats, plastic cups, and no food if they can avoid it. On flights with meals, the quality is very poor. I don't pay that kind of money for that product. By their actions, US has shown no appreciation for customers like me. And I will return the favor by not flying them.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Greg,

In defense of those who attack folks like you and I let's not be to harsh. They have been beaten emotionally and financially within an inch of their collective lives. Like you and I they are pissed off and fed up and have just plain had enough. However they are not the enemy anymore than we are despite Tempe's best efforts to paint us that way.

NO Greg the enemy here is named Parker and his merry band of arrogant, incompetent managers.

All of us need to keep that in mind when we post.

Never said they were. Just stated until they react differently to the kids in Tempe they can expect more of the same. They will be the ones living with their action or inaction, not you and I. You and I get to vote with our wallets

 

[Bobbie]

if the industry and this country go by your plans, hundreds of planes will be parked, they won't have a need for employees to fly them or serve drinks (with or without a charge) on them, they won't have a need for as many mechanics to repair the aircraft that are left, they won't have a need for as many reservations agents or gate/customer service agents. But it's a small price to pay so that you don't have to sit next to some "drearie or normal" on your flight.

Since you apparently do have enough to afford to pay for air travel the way it should be - I have the perfect option for you - leave the legacy airlines to the drearies and normals - for you it's one word....Netjets.

I could fly First Class on the highest priced tickets and stay at the Ritz-Carlton in every city I visited and still come out less than 1/4 of what NetJets costs. That's not a good value to me when there are perfectly decent airlines out there (not US Airways) who can provide a product that's worth paying for and satisfies my needs. It's about VALUE for the money.

As far as the planes being grounded, jobs being lost, etc., that's really what the industry needs to be stabilized. If you look at this from a business perspective, there's no reason for them to be doing what they're doing. I think EVERYONE should pay their fair share for flying. That's it. We've got a Robin Hood style system here where the higher fares are subsidizing the lower fares. I only want to pay for MY square footage on the plane. I want rational fares. That's all. If that means you all lose your jobs, blame your industry leaders. They put you in that position. Not me. If anything, you should be thanking travelers like me for keeping this charade going on as long as it has. Without us, this whole thing would have been over years ago. You know it.

 

[binderella]

Most of the employees posting here would love to bring back the days of excellent service with all of the amenities to treat our FF's the way they should be treated. Management has hobbled every aspect of this operation, both above and below the wing. A lot of the frustration that is being misdirected in this thread is caused by the knowledge that the experience should be better and the fact that no matter how hard we try, WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS OR THE SUPPORT to create that experience. Now that a group of FF's has pulled the last remaining rug out from beneath our feet, there is little hope that we will ever be able to bring back that experience.

 

[Bobbie]

Most of the employees posting here would love to bring back the days of excellent service with all of the amenities to treat our FF's the way they should be treated. Management has hobbled every aspect of this operation, both above and below the wing. A lot of the frustration that is being misdirected in this thread is caused by the knowledge that the experience should be better and the fact that no matter how hard we try, WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS OR THE SUPPORT to create that experience. Now that a group of FF's has pulled the last remaining rug out from beneath our feet, there is little hope that we will ever be able to bring back that experience.

I just want to say that this post hits the nail on the head here and is just really what I'm trying to get across. I know that you guys aren't given the tools you need. It's terribly unfortunate. I sympathize with each and every one of you. No one enjoys disappointing their customers. I cannot imagine what it must be like for you guys. I feel for you and your families. This is your livelihood, your career. Everyone deserves a chance to do something they love and to go to a job they enjoy. I'm in no place to tell anyone what to do, but I want everyone in this world to be loved and appreciated. If you're in the service industry, you deserve to have the tools necessary to service your clients well and provide a service that keeps them coming back again and again. That's how you build lasting relationships.

If your livelihood is serving others, as it is for so many of you, the situation this airline has put you in compromises your ability to service your customers. It's your job as manager of your career to actively seek out change and to find the tools necessary. If one company isn't compatible with your own standards there might be another opportunity elsewhere. It's just a matter of preference. I personally am the kind who goes down with the ship. I'd fight tirelessly for change within the existing company. When there was no option left, I'd quit, but not after fighting for my customers. I recognize and appreciate the fighting you've all done to maintain levels of service over the years. I appreciate it and I know many others do as well. It kept me at US Airways longer than I'd otherwise have been there.

I put up with it for so long and, as I said, it's about value. They're charging the same price as everyone else and I get significantly less. I can only ignore that for so long. I don't have unlimited funds, as some of you have insinuated, but I do have wealth that I manage and value is important to me at this level. You don't build a solid financial foundation for yourself by getting less for your money. You find the best value and stick with it. For the longest time, that was US Airways for me. Now I've got another airline that's more than happy to take my business. I don't need a FFOCUS boycott to tell me I need to bail on US Airways... US Airways told me to bail on US Airways by their actions.

 

[Borescope]

If enough people do it, management will have to notice. Just let the new ticket counter agent ( you know the one they hired off the street last week and doesn't know how to turn on the computer) take 25 minutes to check in your bag while you count out the 1500 pennies and the line grow and grows and grows.......

This works both ways. I saw a passenger pay for a drink with a "C" note. I'm sure he figured he would get his $5 drink for free. To his surprise the FA took the $100 bill and said she would get his change after they finished the service. About 30 minutes later she came back with $95 brand new $1's. The guy was stuck with a wad of bills he hadn't planned on. It was hilarious, the look on his face. Apparently this has happened quite a few time before and the FA said she stopped at the bank before each trip to get the change.

 

[jimcfs]

Most of the employees posting here would love to bring back the days of excellent service with all of the amenities to treat our FF's the way they should be treated. Management has hobbled every aspect of this operation, both above and below the wing. A lot of the frustration that is being misdirected in this thread is caused by the knowledge that the experience should be better and the fact that no matter how hard we try, WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS OR THE SUPPORT to create that experience. Now that a group of FF's has pulled the last remaining rug out from beneath our feet, there is little hope that we will ever be able to bring back that experience.

We're not even asking for the old experience we had in the mid-90s... at this point, status quo would even be acceptable with some minor tweaks. The "value" in flying US now isn't there for the VFF, and probably many seasoned Kettles at this point.

What you and your fellow employees need to do is tell those in the ClayPot exactly what you've said here, word for word. The problem is they don't give a damn about you or us. They only care about their golden parachutes and building their new houses in Paradise Valley, while you struggle to figure out where your next house payment comes from. There is no Plan B in the ClayPot, unless they can find some other airline stupid enough (at this point) to throw in the towel and let them run them into the ground, too. Sounds like a revolt is in your future... or you'll all be looking for new jobs in a down economy.

I know, the truth hurts folks. Better to hear it from us, while you still have time to do something about it.

 

[Art at ISP]

I certainly hope you aren't a member of FFUCUS who pretends to care about the employees...if the industry and this country go by your plans, hundreds of planes will be parked, they won't have a need for employees to fly them or serve drinks (with or without a charge) on them, they won't have a need for as many mechanics to repair the aircraft that are left, they won't have a need for as many reservations agents or gate/customer service agents. But it's a small price to pay so that you don't have to sit next to some "drearie or normal" on your flight.

KC,

I take complete offense at your statement above. We as a group and I personally have ALWAYS been on the side of the front line employee, and have advocated for them (and for us) to management, who turned a deaf ear. My requests of management had little to do with perks or benefits at the time of my last meeting. It had to do with giving the employees the tools and the information they needed in order to help their customers. Had some of our advice been heeded, US could have avoided a good part of last year's operational meltdown.

I am no expert individually, but we have over 1000 members, and collectively, with our millions of miles in the passengers' seats, we have given management ideas (some of which have been implemented), which could help make the customer service job easier, and save time, resulting in more efficient operations with fewer disruption. Many of us have traveled on our own dime numerous times to attend tributes to employees who were either retiring or losing their jobs.

As I said before it is not all about us. There is unfortunately no clear answer to the revenue dilemma, and US has made some choices which we feel will backfire on them. We've been right before and we've been wrong before. Who knows? Maybe Dougie is going to sell US to Ryan Air..he is emulating their operation now.....

KC, go back to loving WN.....and save your ill informed comments for those boards......you have no clue about FFOCUS and what we do especially behind the scenes.

Bottom line--while other airlines are taking care to retain and attract new higher yield customers, US has basically given us the middle finger again, and now they have blatantly told us our business is not wanted. We are only reacting to the behavior Tempe has just proven they desire from us.

I am not going to go on explaining this again and again. Anyone can feel free to PM or email me at any time if you want to go further into it.

My BEST to you all....and I mean that.