Calling ALL Cockroaches - Customers Only

[jimcfs]

And I notice that you aren't flying DL either.

Ah, hate to correct you there, KC, but last I knew l4pi was flying DL almost exclusively. He's stated somewhere that he was willing to take an overnight at HIS expense as opposed to being rebooked off Comair onto a US flight. The DL agent happily got him where he was going... on DL!

 

[KCFlyer]

Ah, hate to correct you there, KC, but last I knew l4pi was flying DL almost exclusively. He's stated somewhere that he was willing to take an overnight at HIS expense as opposed to being rebooked off Comair onto a US flight. The DL agent happily got him where he was going... on DL!

Do y'all have problems with your spouses or family? Because when I was on the road, I wanted to get back to my family, and even if I hated an airline, if it was fly them and get home, or stay another night on the road, I'd bite the bullet and board the dreaded airline.

 

[KCFlyer]

It's THEIR Game nit wit.

No customer on the face of this planet set prices.

So how can we "game"a fare?

Is't Yield Managemrnt a game?

The only games I see are the games run on loyal customers by airlines.

What am I supposed to do go out and buy a full fare coach ticket knowing I'll get the automatic upgrade when one is available for half that with equally good chance of upgrade? That would be like you going to the gas station and saying "Fill'er up and add 50 cents a gallon to the price because I like the way you wash the windshield"

WN is the best when it comes to not gaming fares. Now if the company decides to offer a F cabin, FF Program, along with various perks in order to attract and maintain high yield business travelers then that's the airlines decision.

Conversely if they want to cut all of that out it's also their business. If they lose all of their high yield business then so be it. US is redining theirs and maybe it's no longer in my interest to continue to fly them. People make business decisions all the time. US made theirs and I made mine. Let's see whose right as the free market will ultimately judge.

If the "Kettle" was a DM member with no status and he bought a full Y fare if I read the rules right he WOULD get the upgrade. Now run along and play.

Bob...you yourself have said "if they are dumb enough to sell it to me, I am going to buy it". But...if they are SMART enough to say "fewer miles" or "no upgrades on those fares", then they are "screwing their 'best' customers". So which is it? Bottom line, you want something for nothing.

As for the "class" comment - please note who first mentioned it...hint it's the one prior to mine.

 

[KCFlyer]

What am I supposed to do go out and buy a full fare coach ticket knowing I'll get the automatic upgrade when one is available for half that with equally good chance of upgrade? That would be like you going to the gas station and saying "Fill'er up and add 50 cents a gallon to the price because I like the way you wash the windshield"

So you admit you are not as high yield passenger as you'd like us to believe? Is that why there was an outcry from you when US tried to limit the perks of those flying on discount tickets?

 

[longing4piedmont]

And I notice that you aren't flying DL either. I seem to recall when US proposed a similar program a few years ago a cry went up among the cockroaches...if you were truly high yield, there wouldn't have been a need for an outcry (since it would have had zero impact on you)...but there was....why is that? I had no problem with VFF's 20 years ago...heck, I WAS one...and even though I was on a plane out every Sunday and a plane home every Friday, 52 weeks a year, I never really felt that I was "owed" anything by the airline - even though the bulk of my tickets were those high yield, full fare tickets. Back then - yes - if you really were paying top dollar, then sure - take the upgrade. But too many VFF's today are NOT the high yield passenger - they are flying on deeply discounted tickets. But they still want things to be like they were when they were paying top dollar.

Oh, by they way...there's no "class envy"...heck, anybody who would punish the front line worker by paying any fee in pennies is lacking a bit of class themselves...

Wrong again on king of the Kettles. I fly DL every week.

Wrong again oh king of the Kettles. I purchase the lower class fares sometimes as much as two months in advance. My upgrades are less than 50% and you DO NOT hear me crying. If you look at the DL boards on FT you will hear no one else crying either. And for the record I was part of group who suggested to Jeff Robertson (head on Sky Miles) that they go to that system, which they did about six months ago.

Wanna go for three?

Oh what a short memory you have...... and now you miss all those free perks....lol and very very bitter about it too. That my friend is envy

Now another piece of advice for you.....go on back over to the SW board before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. You make this way too easy.

 

[Richard]

This is becoming an individual argument between 2 or 3 posters...not a good thing.

I am thinking of closing this one or splitting discussions.

KC, Piney, L4--it's getting a little too personal. Let's lighten up on each other.

You may comment on the posts all you want, but not the posters.

Are we clear?

 

[PHLfa88]

I would say I'm "typical" of a business traveler.

Doug Parker stated and it published in an internal US publication that the "typical" Elite generates a 43% revenue premium. Well I calculated my personal revenue premium as of June 1st which was prior to about $4,000 of tickets for June.

To be ver candid I thought my premium would be lower but as it turns out, I generate slightly more than average. Works out to about 43.9% revenue premium.

Does that make me a great customer? Maybe, but certainly a good solid revenue stream. BTW I'm pretty much on target dollar wise to exceed last years spend with US if I stick around.

Boring! Same Ole Same Ole!!

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

To the respondents of my posts...it's all there, in this post. I don't know how AWA did against SWA pre-merger..I just know it was just the two of them wrangling over folks from the Southwestern US..generally more laid back than the NE.

Now, now. Can't we all just get along?

Which reminds me of an old joke. Anyone know what breed of dog was heavily advertised back when the west was America's frontier?

It was the dachsund. Remember the old slogan "Get a long little doggie?"

But I digress. I wanted to cheer everyone up by returning us to those thrilling days of yesteryear...back when people were telling me that Metrojet was kicking WN's tail at BWI because they had a higher LF and such. Specifically, I wanted to compare some markets and fares for HP/WN & US/WN....so I pulled up Q4 1999 vs Q4 2007. I went all the way back to 1999 so as to avoid any skewing due to the tragic events of 9-11.

CITY WN Q4 1999 WN Q4 1999 HP Q4 1999 HP Q4 1999 WN Q4 2007 WN Q4 2007 US Q4 2007 US Q4 2007
PAIR MKT SHARE AVG FARE $ MKT SHARE AVG FARE $ MKT SHARE AVG FARE $ MKT SHARE AVG FARE $

PHX ABQ 82.8 $ 64.59 17.2 $ 60.24 87.1 $ 96.91 12.8 $ 104.48

PHX AUS 46.7 $ 145.88 42.2 $ 126.23 58.2 $ 172.07 33.4 $ 171.83

PHX BWI 25.2 $ 172.07 42.9 $ 161.29 57.2 $ 195.35 25.1 $ 231.78

PHX BUR 62.8 $ 63.50 36.2 $ 53.10 79.7 $ 99.97 19.5 $ 103.12

CHI PHX 10.5 $ 153.17 16.5 $ 155.88 30.0 $ 161.59 19.0 $ 178.15

DEN PHX 0 23.2 $ 157.43 31.4 $ 107.66 21.3 $ 123.49

ELP PHX 85.5 $ 60.96 14.3 $ 60.05 84.3 $ 98.76 15.5 $ 103.40

MCI PHX 52.6 $ 140.15 33.4 $ 133.69 54.2 $ 188.38 30.8 $ 192.54

LAS PHX 72.0 $ 63.70 27.4 $ 54.65 74.0 $ 97.90 25.9 $ 108.10

LAX PHX 56.4 $ 61.92 25.9 $ 54.44 67.0 $ 94.51 25.4 $ 108.35

OMA PHX 26.5 $ 141.41 56.1 $ 127.37 49.3 $ 173.05 40.8 $ 169.93

OAK PHX 67.1 $ 100.92 29.5 $ 91.34 71.2 $ 147.77 27.8 $ 142.82

ONT PHX 80.5 $ 60.81 19.2 $ 54.48 81.4 $ 95.56 18.2 $ 102.58

PHX RNO 52.1 $ 94.84 44.9 $ 79.53 52.8 $ 140.75 45.6 $ 145.31

PHX SLC 47.6 $ 92.08 21.5 $ 89.27 51.4 $ 139.88 25.1 $ 143.62

PHX SMF 54.5 $ 112.89 40.9 $ 96.99 68.8 $ 159.51 29.5 $ 162.43

PHX SAN 74.3 $ 63.00 21.9 $ 56.81 77.1 $ 94.91 22.7 $ 97.41

PHX SNA 0 97.2 $ 155.57 57.8 $ 109.88 41.6 $ 106.43

PHX SEA 19.5 $ 132.50 21.8 $ 132.46 25.5 $ 156.31 27.1 $ 179.46


Okay. What the abovementioned data all means is that:

1. In principal business travel markets where they compete head-to-head, WN has a substantial market share lead.

2. The fare premium that WN had in 1999 has, for the most part, dissipated since the US HP merger. US HP seldom gained any market share...but the fact that they have raised their fares more than WN (which now gives them, on average, a very slight fare premium) has only been paid for with a little weakening of their market share position.

3. HP never really "thrived" when competing against WN out west....it was more like they were able to eke out a meager existence by carrying the folks who just won't fly on WN....your western versions of Art & Bob, if you will.

But one thing ought to stand out more than anything: The numbers of folks zipping back and forth between PHX and LAX, PHX and SAN, PHX and ABQ etc etc.....those are NOT leisure travelers. Those are businessmen. If a carrier has 75 or 80 percent of a predominantly business market, it is a sign that the carrier IS, in fact, FRIENDLY TO BUSINESS TRAVELERS. To think otherwise defies belief.

And to the poster who stated that you don't look at the cost of production when setting airfares ---- that WN doesn't. To quote John McLaughlin --- " YOU>>>>>ARE>>>>>>WRONG!!!!!!!" Southwest very much looks at how much it costs them to operate a flight and prices accordingly....because they view the automobile as competition, and the same thing that drives the cost of driving yourself (ie FUEL) from city A to city B affect the price of flying 137 seats between the two cities.

Art...if you're out there in internet land......PM me in advance before you take your WN flight. If I can find some in the desk drawer I would like to send you some WN drink coupons.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Which reminds me.....I still owe someone a steak. You can even invite KC, although he has to pay for his own since he doesn't like freebies....

 

[N965VJ]

Back OT; I’ll take the pennies, oh yes I will!

And yinz know what? I’ll also comp you a mini to go with your $2 Coke.

 

[KCFlyer]

Doug Parker stated and it published in an internal US publication ...

Hmmmm....numerous posts by you how Parker basically couldn't find his butt with both hands, but this is to golden truth. Apparently though, a 43% premium isn't enough.