Bye bye Tulsa

[Real tired]

This test is very interesting.
 
When is it used and why?
 
What does it count for and what would happen if someone didn't do so well at it?
 
Thanks for any insight.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

There are line mechanics and overhaul mechanics. In order for an overhaul mechanic to bid to a line station and be a line mechanic he must take and pass the line mechanic's test. If a line mechanic wants to bid to the overhaul base there is no test required. The kicker is that both types of mechanics have the same FAA Aircraft and Powerplant license. The company just changed the line test to make it much more difficult to pass. Everyone knows there are layoffs coming at the Tulsa maintenance base and the company doesn't want a large amount of overhaul mechanics to use their seniority and bump lower senior mechanics at line stations. They must pass the line test before they can bump. At the same time, the company has been hiring people off the street for JFK and LGA with no test at all required. So a new hire with no experience does not have to pass the test to get the job, but an experienced mechanic can't go to the line without the test. If this seems crazy to you then you are not alone. My point is that if the situation was reversed I would not expect an experienced mechanic to have to take a test invented by management that is set up to fail anyone they want to fail. We are all A&P mechanics and qualified to do maintenance on the aircraft no matter if it's line or overhaul. incidentally, the company reserves the right to wave any qualifying test they choose when they decide they want a specific person moved to a specific place. Our union has no problem with this system that is designed to rob someone of their seniority rights. Those of us at the overhaul base don't think this system is fair.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Sounds like they are trying to set up an A Class and B class mechanic. They tried to do this with the electricians in Tulsa years ago. The electricians sued. Guess who won.

 

[MCI transplant]

This is something that is not new to the industry. Years ago, at TWA, Line stations used to protect their local mechanics from bump ins by making everyone "Lead Mechanics" on paper. No outside mechanic could bump a "Lead", no matter what their seniority.

 

[1AA]

Monday should be interesting. The start of the new AA. I wonder how many will be told their services will no longer be needed.

 

[lpbrian]

Why AA would allow any OH to line bumping is beyond me. Why should an OH mech with a different skillset be allowed to bump a fully qualified and experienced line mech?

Your average low time TULE mech is only qualified on the MD80. Let's look at what would be required if he were to say bump into....DFW.

777 Fam. 2 weeks
777-300differences. 1 week
Airbus 2 weeks
767 1 week
757 1 week
737 1 week
Then add avionics classes 2-3 weeks
Add other training: ETOPS, Logbooks, ground handling , run up-taxi, LMP, etc
Add various CBTs
Add airport classes, airport badge, customs badge.
After all this you still have an AMT with NO EXPERIENCE on these fleet types
How do you open the engine cowl on a 767? How are you going to fix that first-class seat (for which the passenger paid $7000)on a 777-300 on a gate call?
No wonder AA has raised the bar. No where else in the working would the bumping nonsense be allowed.

 

[dfw gen]

This test is very interesting.
 
When is it used and why?
 
What does it count for and what would happen if someone didn't do so well at it?
 
Thanks for any insight.

not sure how much time you have but have you ever read the contract book? and you have no idea what a qualifying test is? that's the problem with mechanics we are lazy and unwilling to look any further then ourselves.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I think he is a USAir mechanic. I am pretty sure They don't have those tests.

NWA did not have "tests" but you had to be able to perform. I always helped anyone who bumped anywhere (I had that while in the hangar and working the line). Most who bumped there from a shop did not choose to be there. Pay it forward.

They did red circle the machine shop in MSP during layoffs.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Why AA would allow any OH to line bumping is beyond me. Why should an OH mech with a different skillset be allowed to bump a fully qualified and experienced line mech?
Your average low time TULE mech is only qualified on the MD80. Let's look at what would be required if he were to say bump into....DFW.
777 Fam. 2 weeks
777-300differences. 1 week
Airbus 2 weeks
767 1 week
757 1 week
737 1 week
Then add avionics classes 2-3 weeks
Add other training: ETOPS, Logbooks, ground handling , run up-taxi, LMP, etc
Add various CBTs
Add airport classes, airport badge, customs badge.
After all this you still have an AMT with NO EXPERIENCE on these fleet types
How do you open the engine cowl on a 767? How are you going to fix that first-class seat (for which the passenger paid $7000)on a 777-300 on a gate call?
No wonder AA has raised the bar. No where else in the working would the bumping nonsense be allowed.

Be careful what you wish for. You may be the one looking for a chair when the music stops sometime. With that attitude, nobody will be willing to help you.

Most good mechanic's I have worked with were very capable of learning new aircraft and environments in short order. The ones who could not got weeded out. I had one like that and he chose to stay on mid shift even though he had plenty of time to hold any shift he wanted. He was never comfortable working the turns under pressure. He was great doing the mid shift work and he stuck there and all were happy.

I think any mechanic should be able to bump any mechanic in the system wherever the seniority takes them. If the company needs to train them, so be it. They are the one who laid them off, so they should incur the penalty. If that was the case, the company would think long and hard before any layoff.

 

[dfw gen]

I think he is a USAir mechanic. I am pretty sure They don't have those tests.

NWA did not have "tests" but you had to be able to perform. I always helped anyone who bumped into the hangar. Most who bumped there from a shop did not choose to be there. Pay it forward.

They did red circle the machine shop in MSP during layoffs.

didnt think of that. you would be surprised how many at aa dont even know how much they make an hour. no less what is in the contract book.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Why AA would allow any OH to line bumping is beyond me. Why should an OH mech with a different skillset be allowed to bump a fully qualified and experienced line mech?
Your average low time TULE mech is only qualified on the MD80. Let's look at what would be required if he were to say bump into....DFW.
777 Fam. 2 weeks
777-300differences. 1 week
Airbus 2 weeks
767 1 week
757 1 week
737 1 week
Then add avionics classes 2-3 weeks
Add other training: ETOPS, Logbooks, ground handling , run up-taxi, LMP, etc
Add various CBTs
Add airport classes, airport badge, customs badge.
After all this you still have an AMT with NO EXPERIENCE on these fleet types
How do you open the engine cowl on a 767? How are you going to fix that first-class seat (for which the passenger paid $7000)on a 777-300 on a gate call?
No wonder AA has raised the bar. No where else in the working would the bumping nonsense be allowed.

Different Skillset???

Do you have any idea of the problems that arise from an Overhaul? I have personally seen over 100 write ups after the Hangar Check Flight and another 50+ after the flight crew gets done.. It is even worse when a Cabin Improvement Mod or MAUI Upgrade is done where most Module Racks are removed....Next time you work from the FIM and it tells you to check associated wiring, that is usually the trouble shooting that has to be done at OH due to pins being crossed or wires broken not just changing component X or Y! Next time you get a write up for an EICAS message think about two or three screens worth of them!

You may be right to some extent about a lower time Tech who only worked MD80 cargo and may not have complete confidence in his skills but they should have the opportunity to exercise their seniority!

If OH does shrink to the point where 20+ year Techs start bumping they will do just fine out on the Line...

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Why AA would allow any OH to line bumping is beyond me. Why should an OH mech with a different skillset be allowed to bump a fully qualified and experienced line mech?

Your average low time TULE mech is only qualified on the MD80. Let's look at what would be required if he were to say bump into....DFW.

777 Fam. 2 weeks
777-300differences. 1 week
Airbus 2 weeks
767 1 week
757 1 week
737 1 week
Then add avionics classes 2-3 weeks
Add other training: ETOPS, Logbooks, ground handling , run up-taxi, LMP, etc
Add various CBTs
Add airport classes, airport badge, customs badge.
After all this you still have an AMT with NO EXPERIENCE on these fleet types
How do you open the engine cowl on a 767? How are you going to fix that first-class seat (for which the passenger paid $7000)on a 777-300 on a gate call?
No wonder AA has raised the bar. No where else in the working would the bumping nonsense be allowed.

So are we to assume that you did not require this training? And if you did, it was ok to invest all that time in training you but not for someone who is forced to bump to save their job? Please think about what you are saying. You did not hit the ground running on your first day on the line. You had to have training. Do not expect others to be required to know what you didn't when you were a newbie.

 

[Real tired]

There are line mechanics and overhaul mechanics. In order for an overhaul mechanic to bid to a line station and be a line mechanic he must take and pass the line mechanic's test. If a line mechanic wants to bid to the overhaul base there is no test required. The kicker is that both types of mechanics have the same FAA Aircraft and Powerplant license. The company just changed the line test to make it much more difficult to pass. Everyone knows there are layoffs coming at the Tulsa maintenance base and the company doesn't want a large amount of overhaul mechanics to use their seniority and bump lower senior mechanics at line stations. They must pass the line test before they can bump. At the same time, the company has been hiring people off the street for JFK and LGA with no test at all required. So a new hire with no experience does not have to pass the test to get the job, but an experienced mechanic can't go to the line without the test. If this seems crazy to you then you are not alone. My point is that if the situation was reversed I would not expect an experienced mechanic to have to take a test invented by management that is set up to fail anyone they want to fail. We are all A&P mechanics and qualified to do maintenance on the aircraft no matter if it's line or overhaul. incidentally, the company reserves the right to wave any qualifying test they choose when they decide they want a specific person moved to a specific place. Our union has no problem with this system that is designed to rob someone of their seniority rights. Those of us at the overhaul base don't think this system is fair.

 WOW !
 
Thanks for the info, and I agree, it doesn't sound fair.  And your union signs off on this?
 
It almost sounds like a method the company could use to choose who they want to without using a senority based system.  What's next, who can polish the foreman's shoes the best?
 
Here at US, it's always been a senority based system of bumping, and if you came from O/H to the line, the first thing you have to do is go to line indoc school, then school on the different types of A/C.  You might not have the experience, or know the "tricks", but you are usually not alone, and there's someone nearby to help until you learn "the ropes".
 
But to prevent someone from using his senority and bumping a position due to a score on a test, it sounds like Delta.

 

[Real tired]

not sure how much time you have but have you ever read the contract book? and you have no idea what a qualifying test is? that's the problem with mechanics we are lazy and unwilling to look any further then ourselves.

No problem my new co worker friend.
 
35 years..... started at the change over from Allegheny.  Always been at USAir.
 
O/H
Line
Sheet Metal
Engine Shop
Engine Final Assembly
B-Check
Utility
 
And no tests.

 

[700UW]

Did you work with Brad in the Engine Shop?