Branson wants to try and sway Dallas for DAL gates

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I'm not sure how hard it is for you or anyone else to realize that the minute DL loses its lease, it has to suspend service from DAL. It then the very next day has the right to reenter DAL as a new entrant because the term new entrant has nothing to do with any history an airline has ever had at an airport but whether it serves it at the time it makes its request for service there.

Don't worry, though, WN management gets it. Nowhere have they said that they deserve to get the gates above all other airlines that are requesting access because they absolutely realize that they signed the 2006 agreement specifically saying that if the tenant airlines of DAL did not accommodate new entrant airlines on their own, DAL would decide on its own how they would be accommodated.

Nowhere in US airport access laws or the 2006 agreement is there any possibility of telling an airline that serves DAL but has no means to do so that they cannot serve the airport. None. They all will be accommodated and whatever price anyone wants to pay for access to the two gates doesn't change the fact that new entrant airlines have to be accommodated.

 
DL is not a new entrant.
Your fabrication of a definition (of new entrant) to fit your DL-centric diatribes does not and will not make DL a new entrant.

 

[WNMECH]

http://nypost.com/2014/05/05/woman-caught-having-sex-with-stranger-on-virgin-flight/

What is this virgin franchise selling?
 
Virgin’s CEO, Sir Richard Branson, once famously hinted that mile-high sex was OK by him, sniffing, “We’re not the type of airline that bangs on bathroom doors.”
 
 
 
 
Caption to the photo below:
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Sir Richard Branson is OK with you joining the mile-high club on Virgin Atlantic Airways[/SIZE]

 

[WNMECH]

 

[eolesen]

you also can't seem to grasp that new entrant based on airport access laws doesn't mean whether a carrier has EVER served an airport but whether it does at the time it seeks access.

If DL has no lease, and no one has yet to tell them or DAL that DL has any gates, then DL is a new entrant.

Again, you're making up your own definition.

The DOT (and Congress) have defined new entrant quite differently from your interpretation:
 

NEW ENTRANT AIR CARRIER.—The term ‘new entrant air carrier’ means an air carrier that has been providing air transportation according to a published schedule for less than 5 years, including any person that has received authority from the Secretary to provide air transportation but is not providing air transportation

Technically, VX isn't a new entrant anymore, since they've been flying for 6.5 years, but the intent of the LEGAL definition applies to them far more than it ever can for DL, who has been flying since crop dusters were invented.

If you want to pretend to be an expert, you may want to make sure the definition of the terms you like to toss about so freely actually apply to the situation...

 

[traderjake]

Who pulls off the drag look better, Gary Kelly or Branson?

 

 
Giuliani gets my vote.

 

[WNMECH]

Dallas TV channel cbs11 reported today that the DOJ sent a letter to the City of Dallas finally yesterday stating that Virgin is their preferred pick for the gates.
 
It still isn't a public statement, but if the report is accurate, at least the DOJ finally said something to Dallas.

 

[swamt]

Just read in the FW Telegram that there will be a decision, or at least they are not expecting a decision on Wed.  Just states they will be a brief to help the Manager to come to a decision.
 
Does anyone have a link to the actual letter from DOJ to COD, VA, Delta, and SWA?  A reporter stated this morning that the DOT wrote "VA is the only airline allowed to operate the 2 gates"  I honestly think this is just the VA campaign telling the reporter that it says that, when in fact it probably does not.  If it did, and it could be had, I am positive the local media would have had it out, and if they did say that in writing, VA would be using it like mad to help try and prove their case.  If anyone has this letter pls post a link' I am searching as well and will do the same...
 
Here is the link to story, hope it works, I'm not very good at this:   

Branson urges Dallas to “Free Love Field”

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/#storylink=cpy

 

[swamt]

I did a search for the letter and nothing came up except for the following 4 stories topped the list:
 
American Airlines exec: Virgin America was the only airline ...
 
Southwest Airlines rebuts Virgin America rebuttal of city of ...
 
DOJ indicates Delta unlikely to get American’s Love Field gates
 
City’s consultants say Southwest is best choice for Dallas ...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Are u real sure AA does not fly DFW to ATL. Id look at that one. Bec I do know AA serves ATL

 AA flies DFW to ATL, as does DL.

DL flies from both DFW to ATL and DAL to ATL. DAL is only with CRJs because that is the only aircraft that can serve the market under the Wright amendment.
 

DL is not a new entrant.
Your fabrication of a definition (of new entrant) to fit your DL-centric diatribes does not and will not make DL a new entrant.

 
 

Again, you're making up your own definition.

The DOT (and Congress) have defined new entrant quite differently from your interpretation:
 

Technically, VX isn't a new entrant anymore, since they've been flying for 6.5 years, but the intent of the LEGAL definition applies to them far more than it ever can for DL, who has been flying since crop dusters were invented.

If you want to pretend to be an expert, you may want to make sure the definition of the terms you like to toss about so freely actually apply to the situation...

and that definition does not apply to how airports are required to give access.

And by your own admission, Virgin is no longer a new entrant so the question isn't about a new entrant anyway.

The contest is about equal access to all participants who want to serve a market.

Absent a lease or the ability to use common use gates, DL is in exactly the same position as Virgin.
 
 

Dallas TV channel cbs11 reported today that the DOJ sent a letter to the City of Dallas finally yesterday stating that Virgin is their preferred pick for the gates.
 
It still isn't a public statement, but if the report is accurate, at least the DOJ finally said something to Dallas.

And the DOJ is trying like anything to not be shown irrelevant in the situation. but they are.

The DOJ could say that AA cannot serve the airport and AA agreed to it.

The DOJ cannot undo all of the laws about airport regulation and entrance.... and even if they do succeed at awarding gates to VX, they can't succeed at keeping other airlines out.

This isn't a slot case such as at DCA and LGA where there is a clear difference in the level of service that DL and the legacies have.

DL is in exactly the same position as VX in requesting ANY access.

WN won't get any more gates and DL and VX will both be there.

I'll still accept the winning bet as tofu dinner - in deference to the vegans here.

I linked the DL letters which the DMN posted. Funny that you repeatedly can't find them - esp. since they are full of law citations and not consultant comments.

 

[swamt]

 AA flies DFW to ATL, as does DL.

DL flies from both DFW to ATL and DAL to ATL. DAL is only with CRJs because that is the only aircraft that can serve the market under the Wright amendment.
 
 
 

and that definition does not apply to how airports are required to give access.

And by your own admission, Virgin is no longer a new entrant so the question isn't about a new entrant anyway.

The contest is about equal access to all participants who want to serve a market.

Absent a lease or the ability to use common use gates, DL is in exactly the same position as Virgin.
 
 

And the DOJ is trying like anything to not be shown irrelevant in the situation. but they are.

The DOJ could say that AA cannot serve the airport and AA agreed to it.

The DOJ cannot undo all of the laws about airport regulation and entrance.... and even if they do succeed at awarding gates to VX, they can't succeed at keeping other airlines out.

This isn't a slot case such as at DCA and LGA where there is a clear difference in the level of service that DL and the legacies have.

DL is in exactly the same position as VX in requesting ANY access.

WN won't get any more gates and DL and VX will both be there.

I'll still accept the winning bet as tofu dinner - in deference to the vegans here.

I linked the DL letters which the DMN posted. Funny that you repeatedly can't find them - esp. since they are full of law citations and not consultant comments.

I have told you and told you and told you WT.  No bet was ever made if Delta stays or leaves LF.  I will only speak of mine, my bet with you was Delta will not get the 2 divested gates.  Had NOTHING to do with Delta staying or leaving at all.  Matter fact I have told you Delta can and probably will stay at LF as long as they are will to lease other gates or share gates, but they are not being awarded the 2 gates being divested.
 
Wrong again WT.  Never have I said I couldn't find Deltas letters to COD, I have read them and I stated I read them and I posted one of the para's that gives an out for the COD.  There's another spot in there as well that gives the COD another reason to go with the better fit decision for the city, airport and the local community around it.   The Letter WN,  E, and I are discussing, is the letter just recieved by the COD from the DOJ (Not Delta).   Read and comprehend...

 

[WNMECH]

 

WN won't get any more gates and DL and VX will both be there.

I'll still accept the winning bet as tofu dinner - in deference to the vegans here.

I linked the DL letters which the DMN posted. Funny that you repeatedly can't find them - esp. since they are full of law citations and not consultant comments.

I don't recall the wording of that original bet and it still isn't over yet either.
 
 
But I do recall this one.
 
You got tofu on your face for this bet.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
[SIZE=9pt]WorldTraveler, on 16 Nov 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]obviously we will know soon enough how this proceeds but, no, DL has not filed a lawsuit to force it to be able to bid on AA/US divested assets. I haven't said they have filed a lawsuit. I have said DL is challenging DOJ's statements that have been widely published saying that they want the assets to go to low fare carriers, based on a definition that they are using.

This is one of those times when I am willing to bet that DL will be given the right to bid on assets that are being divested.... because there is no legal basis for prohibiting them from doing so.

Would you like to be the first to accept my bet that DL will be given the opportunity to bid on assets that are divested as part of the AA/US settlement agreement and that the results will be determined solely by the price offered by the bidder with no "but we don't expect carrier X or Y" to be successful" language?

Remember that I wrote a post on this thread saying that AA would not be acquired in the first 18 months of its BK, someone accepted the offer to challenge me, the thread was reposted this week, and it was confirmed that what I posted took place. AA, today, remains an independent airline.

Regarding the Wright Amendment, I'm open for anyone else to chime in but I am not aware of any other public US airports in which there are restrictions that prohibit one carrier from serving another airport or that requires a divestiture if they add service at that or any other airport.

Perhaps you can help me determine if another situation like this exists.[/SIZE]

 

[WorldTraveler]

good find. indeed DL didn't bid and won't because of the DOJ.

But it doesn't change that DL will be at DAL, WN won't be getting any more gates as long as any other carriers want to serve the airport, and ultimately it doesn't care what happens with the two gates because they themselves don't really stop the language of DAL's airport access laws from functioning.

Your loyalty may or may not against DL but it is clearly for WN.

I don't have a problem with WN doing a bang up job at DAL and be successful well beyond your expectations.

My only point is and has been that WN cannot and will not dominate the very few gates that DAL has because WN agreed to DAL's process of ensuring other carriers have access to the airport and the DOJ messed up what should have been a very easy process for other carriers to be a part of DAL on a limited basis but now chunks of DAL are coming in groups of 20 flights.

I have never said anything against WN's presence at any other airport precisely because other carriers have the ability to serve those airports. The same principle will apply to DAL. It will be obvious that the reason why DL wants into DAL and other carriers will is because the location of the airport DAL relative to other multi-airport airports is about the best in a city where WN has a large operation.

that is a reality that WN knows and they will continue to have to fight to retain its share of the relatively small number of gates the airport has.

it is a risk but it was known all the way back during the negotiations in 2005 and 2006.

 

[WNMECH]

WN, have you heard anything about SWA either sending letters for support or maybe they will speak at the meeting on Wed.?   
 
I told you guys this was going to get very interesting.  Notice how Delta first started selling tickets to try and lean the vote towards their favor, and VA has also started selling the tickets out of LF hoping that they would selected by the COD to be awarded the gates.  What is funny in all the articles is VA indicates the DOJ gave them the gates, when in fact the DOJ selected VA as a good candidate and only recomended, again just more tactics to try and sway the COD's up coming decision on the gates.  Notice how SWA hasn't sold any tickets for the new routes out LF from the 2 gates.  Once again it will be funny if/when Delta and VA has to refund all those ticket sales and or contact each and every customer and inform them they will have to travel into DFW in order to catch the flights you wanted out of Dallas LF.  Then if/when SWA wins the gates, they can stay with LF and caryy on as usual just on another airline, thank you very much...

 SWAMT, go to SWALIFE, it looks like we are getting into the fight. At least not going quietly.

 

[WorldTraveler]

going to fight? like maybe the plan to dominate the airport and keep the competition out or at least so small that they can't do anything to really influence the market isn't working?

why would WN need to fight if the City is rolling over in favor of WN?

maybe all of WN's money isn't working and the City of Dallas is deciding to follow the law?

maybe you two can spell out exactly what you think should happen. You're not opposed to DL or anyone else being there but you don't want them large enough to really matter and at best only one of them? Take the best for WN and if there are any scraps left over, someone can have something?

is that about right?

lay it out what you really think should happen.

 

[WNMECH]

I was speaking of the PR and informational campaign that  WN is fighting. They are making another push.
And I believe it is needed after hearing all the spreading of BS from Virgin this week.
Time to present the facts.