Sorry E, but it takes me a long time to post and I just wanted to throw out a long and winded update just like our wonderful thread-mate always does. Great findings though, I will say. Please carry on sir, your doing a great job...
Branson wants to try and sway Dallas for DAL gates
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eolesen
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No worries... for whatever reason, the images per post are limited to 2. Otherwise, it would have been done before your response.
If anything, what I showed is that DL may indeed have flown up the white flag in three of the new markets.
WT will be along in about 5 hours to comment, even though he knows full well that nobody in their Wright mind would dare to book at those fare levels.
I've yet to meet a corporate travel department willing to let that one go without questioning it, but I'm sure WT can edjumacate us on how we still don't see the bigger picture, or are only interested in what our respective favorite airline will get out of all this...
If anything, what I showed is that DL may indeed have flown up the white flag in three of the new markets.
WT will be along in about 5 hours to comment, even though he knows full well that nobody in their Wright mind would dare to book at those fare levels.
I've yet to meet a corporate travel department willing to let that one go without questioning it, but I'm sure WT can edjumacate us on how we still don't see the bigger picture, or are only interested in what our respective favorite airline will get out of all this...
WorldTraveler
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in the space of JUST 8 hours at night in the western world we have more than a page of responses, ALL with the intent of trying to prove me wrong and ALL failing to acknowledge that this is DL's fight.. I don't control their inventory or decisions.
So much for the notion that I am the one who is dominating the conversation including by users that have more posts than I do.
And the decision regarding the gates has STILL not been made, released, and confirmed by the users.
I was very clear in the beginning that the case regarding the gates and slots was part of the same process and yet a few people STILL can't grasp (yes) that it is.
Did you ever bother to confirm that DL did have discount inventory available?
And what of swamt's argument that DL was wrong to have loaded flights without full approval, including offering a full response.
No, what is obvious is there will be people on here who will always try to prove me wrong because I am and will touch on their "precious and sensitive spots" and that the process is NOT over and DL has not walked away emptyhanded.
when that happens, let me know. DL has lost nothing in the process and neither has anyone else.
So much for the notion that I am the one who is dominating the conversation including by users that have more posts than I do.
And the decision regarding the gates has STILL not been made, released, and confirmed by the users.
I was very clear in the beginning that the case regarding the gates and slots was part of the same process and yet a few people STILL can't grasp (yes) that it is.
Did you ever bother to confirm that DL did have discount inventory available?
And what of swamt's argument that DL was wrong to have loaded flights without full approval, including offering a full response.
No, what is obvious is there will be people on here who will always try to prove me wrong because I am and will touch on their "precious and sensitive spots" and that the process is NOT over and DL has not walked away emptyhanded.
when that happens, let me know. DL has lost nothing in the process and neither has anyone else.
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Yeah, that's not creepy at all...WorldTraveler said:
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let's be honest that you could care less about DAL and the only reason that you are involved in this thread is because I am involved in the IAM campaign that you support.
Good goes around.
Good goes around.
eolesen
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Yep. It's only available via ATL.WorldTraveler said:
You're a smart guy, and you worked a long time in Revenue Management.
Please explain how zeroing out all but the full constructed fares could be anything other than the first step taken before pulling flights from the system...
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the question is whether it was EVER available in discounted inventories on all of these routes.
I don't know for all dates but I know when I have looked on at least a few occasions, there has not been discount inventory available on the new routes other than to ATL.
Perhaps DL is prioritizing what it will serve if it has less than daily service but I don't think there is enough information, unless you have historical fare and availability, to know that anything is different from what it has always had.
I don't know for all dates but I know when I have looked on at least a few occasions, there has not been discount inventory available on the new routes other than to ATL.
Perhaps DL is prioritizing what it will serve if it has less than daily service but I don't think there is enough information, unless you have historical fare and availability, to know that anything is different from what it has always had.
eolesen
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Nice deflection, Skippy.
It's clearly available to LAX.
You're the fares, pricing, and inventory expert.
Explain why it would be loaded for LAX, but not to DTW, MSP or LGA?
I know that you know closing out all the lower buckets is usually the first sign of surrender on a new market.
Doesn't matter if it is for day of departure or future date -- it's a classic disruption mitigation response, specifically to
If there's another good explanation for that, please do let all of us know...
It's clearly available to LAX.
You're the fares, pricing, and inventory expert.
Explain why it would be loaded for LAX, but not to DTW, MSP or LGA?
I know that you know closing out all the lower buckets is usually the first sign of surrender on a new market.
Doesn't matter if it is for day of departure or future date -- it's a classic disruption mitigation response, specifically to
- Limit exposure to new bookings, and
- steer those onto flights you hope will still be operating
If there's another good explanation for that, please do let all of us know...
WorldTraveler
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because DL does not serve DAL to the west. It can serve all of the other cities via ATL to the east. MSP is the least favorable to do that but it can be done.
DL is an aggressive company but they also are very good at minimizing risk.
I can't argue with the possibility that DL didn't open inventory on some flights because there was a risk they wouldn't be able to fly them.
The question was whether they ever took that risk. I honestly don't know.
IN contrast, Virgin came in and loaded inventory and then had a very low price internet sale even before the approval was received.
swamt at least and I can agree that WN has taken the lowest risk approach but the question is whether it is illegal for other carriers to offer any other option from DL and VX.
but it is also true that WN is waiting to confirm what markets it will serve, undoubtedly based on whether it has competition in those markets. The 2nd list that WN released IF it got the two gates included a number of other carrier markets, including MSP and DTW and IIRC also EWR and PHL which it likely would not serve if it had to compete with another carrier.
I am happy to admit that DL might be pulling back to the markets they will serve IF they only are able to serve part of the schedule but we still don't have the information to confirm that.
As you and I have noted before, I agree with you that DL is likely to get less than its full proposed schedule and there is also a good chance that one or more objectors to the process might not agree with Virgin getting anything more than they can get. I honestly think that the hangup regarding an announcement is because DL or WN has been offered less than what it is seeking or WN or DL either one are saying they will challenge it all and try to get all the Wright restrictions removed. I don't know that for certain but if the decision had long been as easy as just assigning the lease from AA to Virgin, it would have been done a long time ago.
DL is an aggressive company but they also are very good at minimizing risk.
I can't argue with the possibility that DL didn't open inventory on some flights because there was a risk they wouldn't be able to fly them.
The question was whether they ever took that risk. I honestly don't know.
IN contrast, Virgin came in and loaded inventory and then had a very low price internet sale even before the approval was received.
swamt at least and I can agree that WN has taken the lowest risk approach but the question is whether it is illegal for other carriers to offer any other option from DL and VX.
but it is also true that WN is waiting to confirm what markets it will serve, undoubtedly based on whether it has competition in those markets. The 2nd list that WN released IF it got the two gates included a number of other carrier markets, including MSP and DTW and IIRC also EWR and PHL which it likely would not serve if it had to compete with another carrier.
I am happy to admit that DL might be pulling back to the markets they will serve IF they only are able to serve part of the schedule but we still don't have the information to confirm that.
As you and I have noted before, I agree with you that DL is likely to get less than its full proposed schedule and there is also a good chance that one or more objectors to the process might not agree with Virgin getting anything more than they can get. I honestly think that the hangup regarding an announcement is because DL or WN has been offered less than what it is seeking or WN or DL either one are saying they will challenge it all and try to get all the Wright restrictions removed. I don't know that for certain but if the decision had long been as easy as just assigning the lease from AA to Virgin, it would have been done a long time ago.
eolesen
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Again, it's normal for WN to keep a very limited future schedule. They know what they're going to offer, and so do the people in airports and crew schedule. The public will know on May 19th (subject to change).WorldTraveler said:
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if WN has a fixed schedule for how far in advance they normally publish their schedules, how is it subject to change?
The fall of Wright is EXACTLY five months away.
Is WN's practice only to publish schedules ONLY FIVE months in advance?
The fall of Wright is EXACTLY five months away.
Is WN's practice only to publish schedules ONLY FIVE months in advance?
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