The last time the company gave us a dollar figure for anything in the contract was 2003. We have requested their costs outs several times over the past few years but they have refused to provide any numbers. For some reason they seem very reluctant to do so, I was shocked when they used the union cost out in their statement about the offer, makes you wonder, why? I mean if the union said that the offer was $750 million over the four years it covers you would think that the comapny would counter with 'Oh no, its more like $1.1 Billion", thats pretty much standard negotiating tactics.Does the company ever place what they believe the dollar value of the defined pension is or are they just claiming the TWU doesn't take that into account without anybody having facts and dollar value?