Binding arbitration

[Duke787]

I hope Bob Owens can tell us why binding arbitration is bad for us.

 

[strikeforce]

I hope Bob Owens can tell us why binding arbitration is bad for us.

Unfortunately arbitration would be bad for OH because the wages being paid @ Timpco or other OH facilities around the country.....probably $25-30 per hour. Line would most likely benefit because wages are much higher $40-50 per hour. This will never fly at the bases.

 

[strikeforce]

I just wanted to add..let me apologize if it seems that somehow I want OH to take a pay cut in order for the line to be paid accordingly, I'm not. I'm all for OH making as much as any other AA mechanic on the field. I'm primarily pointing out arguments made to justify the wages paid in similar operations.

 

[Tex-Mech]

A PEB would be a better choice than arbitration because at least the panel of those who will be listening to the case should be pro-labor when appointed by Obama. :blink:

It would also force the company to enter the 30 day cooling off period to bring a real final offer to the table.

As far as giving up our right to strike and get an arbitrator, maybe we will get Kasher because that worked out so good with his last case.

 

[MCI transplant]

A PEB would be a better choice than arbitration because at least the panel of those who will be listening to the case should be pro-labor when appointed by Obama. :blink:

It would also force the company to enter the 30 day cooling off period to bring a real final offer to the table.

As far as giving up our right to strike and get an arbitrator, maybe we will get Kasher because that worked out so good with his last case.

<_< ------- Good for who Tex??------ Be careful what you wish for!

 

[eolesen]

A PEB would be a better choice than arbitration because at least the panel of those who will be listening to the case should be pro-labor when appointed by Obama. :blink:

That's a very dangerous assumption, guys.

Two questions for the folks who might remember:

1) Did APFA do better or worse than the final final offers with binding arbitration in 1993?

2) Did APA do better or worse than the final final offer with their PEB in 1997?

Yes, it's ancient history, but as both were executed under a Democratic administration, it might be a reasonable parallel...

 

[TWU informer]

Just out of curiousity.

After watching this drum banging and the debate on negotiations for sometime now.

We all know there is different market rate for a line AMT versus an Overhaul AMT.

But I have yet to see a dollar value placed on our defined pension plan.

The standard company response always claims the TWU is ignoring the fact that we still have a defined pension, that we have a "great" health insurance plan (which I disagree with this with frist hand knowledge), and that AA does 90% of maintenance in-house.

I believe Bob Owens also has covered the in-house maintenance issue several times.

I don't think our health insurance plan is superior to other airlines at all.

But what about the defined pension plan?

I don't trust anything the company says, and I wonder if Bob or the TWU can give us a comparative dollar value of this plan compared to what others have.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Just out of curiousity.

After watching this drum banging and the debate on negotiations for sometime now.

We all know there is different market rate for a line AMT versus an Overhaul AMT.

But I have yet to see a dollar value placed on our defined pension plan.

The standard company response always claims the TWU is ignoring the fact that we still have a defined pension, that we have a "great" health insurance plan (which I disagree with this with frist hand knowledge), and that AA does 90% of maintenance in-house.

I believe Bob Owens also has covered the in-house maintenance issue several times.

I don't think our health insurance plan is superior to other airlines at all.

But what about the defined pension plan?

I don't trust anything the company says, and I wonder if Bob or the TWU can give us a comparative dollar value of this plan compared to what others have.

You're suggesting we deserve to know what's going on in Fort Worth - how dare you?

 

[eolesen]

Dave, I can't speak for pension value, but on the healthcare issue, I did see a stat that might offer some comparison for how much you're having to pay for healthcare...

I can't find the quote, but during some of the Obamacare-Revisited debate, Crain's Business recently reported the national average employee contribution for healthcare was $75/month for employee-only coverage, and $300/month for employee-plus-family coverage.

On a percentage basis, they said those rates amounted to covering 9% of the employee-only costs, and around 30% of employee-plus-family costs.

Those rates were compared across a sampling of both union & non-union plans across industries. Wish I could find the link, but it's still a reasonable starting point for comparison.

 

[Bob Owens]

We all know there is different market rate for a line AMT versus an Overhaul AMT.

Do we? Most carriers still do some in house OH and I believe those guys make the same chart rate as the line guys.

I'll see if I can find the article but the numbers I saw for Health Care coverage were much less than Eolesons. Then theres the trick of actually getting them to cover and pay. You use the Doctors they tell you to use then they say they dont cover what the Doctor does or prescribes! My understanding is that for a family we pay around $3000/yr more than UPS, and earn around $35,000/yr less.

I do not see an advantage to binding arbitration, I'd rather take the 30 day-PEB-self-help route. I think we will get a better deal. With UPS getting $50.13/hr the company couldnt just sit back and say "We do more in house so we shouldnt have to pay as much as everyone else". They would actually have to produce figures, something they have refused to do so far.

 

[TWU informer]

Do we? Most carriers still do some in house OH and I believe those guys make the same chart rate as the line guys.

I'll see if I can find the article but the numbers I saw for Health Care coverage were much less than Eolesons. Then theres the trick of actually getting them to cover and pay. You use the Doctors they tell you to use then they say they dont cover what the Doctor does or prescribes! My understanding is that for a family we pay around $3000/yr more than UPS, and earn around $35,000/yr less.

I do not see an advantage to binding arbitration, I'd rather take the 30 day-PEB-self-help route. I think we will get a better deal. With UPS getting $50.13/hr the company couldnt just sit back and say "We do more in house so we shouldnt have to pay as much as everyone else". They would actually have to produce figures, something they have refused to do so far.

Check out this SCAM on Medical Coverage. I have personally experienced this recently and several times as my Wife has been sick.

You have 80%/20% plan you think, but here is it what actually happens.

Hospital/Surgeon/Medical Professional bill you for services.

Lets say one of the bills is $1000.00 initially, so you owe $200.00
But then when you look at the Explanation of Benefits, you see the plan discount for billing was -$380.00 so the plan only had to pay $620.00. However your 20% is from the initial bill amount which is $1000.00

Thus you pay $200.00 of the $620.00 charge which is FAR MORE than 20%.

This SCAM SUCKS!

Bob,

Does the company ever place what they believe the dollar value of the defined pension is or are they just claiming the TWU doesn't take that into account without anybody having facts and dollar value?

 

[DallasConehead]

Check out this SCAM on Medical Coverage. I have personally experienced this recently and several times as my Wife has been sick.

You have 80%/20% plan you think, but here is it what actually happens.

Hospital/Surgeon/Medical Professional bill you for services.

Lets say one of the bills is $1000.00 initially, so you owe $200.00
But then when you look at the Explanation of Benefits, you see the plan discount for billing was -$380.00 so the plan only had to pay $620.00. However your 20% is from the initial bill amount which is $1000.00

Thus you pay $200.00 of the $620.00 charge which is FAR MORE than 20%.

This SCAM SUCKS!

Bob,

Does the company ever place what they believe the dollar value of the defined pension is or are they just claiming the TWU doesn't take that into account without anybody having facts and dollar value?

If you had to prepay the doctor, in this case that doc should refund you pack to your 20% amount. This same thing happened in our family recently where the doc required prepay, when insurance paid and the negotiated amount was less, the doc refunded the difference to us.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Dave, I can't speak for pension value, but on the healthcare issue, I did see a stat that might offer some comparison for how much you're having to pay for healthcare...

I can't find the quote, but during some of the Obamacare-Revisited debate, Crain's Business recently reported the national average employee contribution for healthcare was $75/month for employee-only coverage, and $300/month for employee-plus-family coverage.

On a percentage basis, they said those rates amounted to covering 9% of the employee-only costs, and around 30% of employee-plus-family costs.

Those rates were compared across a sampling of both union & non-union plans across industries. Wish I could find the link, but it's still a reasonable starting point for comparison.

EMPLOYEE +1 $264.12/month

 

[MCI transplant]

Dave, I can't speak for pension value, but on the healthcare issue, I did see a stat that might offer some comparison for how much you're having to pay for healthcare...

I can't find the quote, but during some of the Obamacare-Revisited debate, Crain's Business recently reported the national average employee contribution for healthcare was $75/month for employee-only coverage, and $300/month for employee-plus-family coverage.

On a percentage basis, they said those rates amounted to covering 9% of the employee-only costs, and around 30% of employee-plus-family costs.

Those rates were compared across a sampling of both union & non-union plans across industries. Wish I could find the link, but it's still a reasonable starting point for comparison.

<_< ------ Olesen, I trust these figures as much as Informer trusts the Company!----- Remember, this is the same administration gave us "ObamaCare"!!! :down:

 

[eolesen]

<_< ------ Olesen, I trust these figures as much as Informer trusts the Company!----- Remember, this is the same administration gave us "ObamaCare"!!! :down:

Those aren't from O'Bummer's people -- they came from a survey done by Crain's Business. Not exactly what I'd call a partisan publication, but they're pretty reputable on business issues.