Battle Line Is Drawn

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I believe you are exactly right, UAFA21. The PBGC will fight UAL's attempts to terminate their pensions tooth and nail and drag things out as long as they legally can. It is very likely that Congress will get involved; if Congress was brought to bear to put pressure on UAL re: retiree medical benefits, you can bet they'll have something to say about pensions.

The sad reality is that the longer UAL takes to resolve the pension issue, the longer it takes UAL to get back on its feet and competing. The PBGC is probably willing to make an example of UAL in order to prevent them from dumping their pensions unless UAL ceases to operate. The best thing UAL could do is accept responsibility for the pension obligation and design a business plan that includes keeping the pension plans. Unfortunately, UAL will probably continue to expect everyone else to fix its problems - a stance that could well be part of the death sentence for UAL - although there are plenty of people who do not want to admit or hear of the severity of the this situation in determining UAL's future.

[post="167396"][/post]​

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I agree with world traveler, UAL has MORE to worry about than their(soon to be raped) employees, namely "THE FEDS" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Feds/Congress will surely make an example out of UAL, so this "thing" does'nt snowball onto any more carriers(Pension Plans).

Having said that,
(If all else fails), before UAL gets to "victimize" and "torture" it's employees, the employees CAN, (and should consider) ENDING UAL, on their(employees) terms, and NOT UAL's terms. !!!!!!!!!!

I SERIOUSLY hope to GOD that it does'nt come to "this", but if I'm going to be "thrown overboard", YOU CAN BET YOUR A$$ that I will take my "attacker" with me.

NO ONE at United deserves to be treated like this !!!!!!!!!!!
(IMHO), I praise ALPA for "drawing a line in the sand" AGAINST UAL.

Wishing for the BEST result POSSIBLE for all UAL employees !!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[The Ronin]

ALPA wishes to protect their pension plan....fine. Publicly or privately turning to management to attack other work groups. irreprehensible.

 

[UAL_TECH]

BigRed1,

I can only speak for myself in these matters, but I will say that I believe that ‘actions’ speak louder than words. In saying that, I ‘hear’ what is being said by ALPA but I have not ‘seen’ their resolve. I do not believe that the ‘Pilots’ are ‘specifically’ out to decimate the mechanics. However, I do believe that the ‘Pilots’ will do anything to take care of themselves and consider ‘anyone else’ negatively affected by their actions as collateral damage.

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

Repeat this to yourself Ronin while taking deep cleansing breaths........The pilots are not out to get me. They are my friends. The pilots are not out to get me. They are my friends. Visualize a beautiful green meadow with yellow flowers and big white puffy clouds. Deep breaths. The pilots are not out to get me. They are my friends. I am a pilot, Ronin. I wish you nor your pension plan any harm. I come in peace. Puffy white clouds. The pilots are not out to get me. They are my friends........

[post="167438"][/post]​

Thanks,

We did that with the ESOP and what did it get us?

16 Tons and what did we get?

- Another Day Older and Deeper in Debt -

B) UT

 

[The Ronin]

Lets see where the gunsite is pointing.....

United's maintenance and airport operations are substantially less efficient than its industry peers; hmmm, I think that is Mechs, Ramp and CSR's

its aircraft leases remain well above market.....management

and United fails to manage revenue as well as American, Continental or Northwest.....another shot at management (btw, I agree)

its relationship with United Express carriers is unprofitable and unstable; ahhh, I know what this is about....sounds like the same bid NWA pilots are making about putting their pilots into the CRJ's...nice, very nice.....

And UAL TECH does not believe their out to screw the mechanics...what do they have to do....SHOOT YOU before you believe they're pointing a gun at you...jesus

 

[The Ronin]

However, the Company's 9,000 pilots have already made huge concessions to provide United with over $6 billion in financial relief over the next five years. Over the last 18 months, the average pilot has forfeited 45% of his or her pay and 20% of his or her pension benefits, as well as endured a 15% increase in work hours

Lets add some more fuel to this fire, reference http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/index.htm
FAA max hrs per yr x1000

45% paycut and yet you are at about industry average and have the flying earing potential of $140k to $203k per year????? Hard for most Americans in this job market to have much empathy with that.

20% pension cut....remember folks, once again based on numbers AFTER contract 2000 and they have 2 plans....nice

15% increase in work hours...hmm max flying 1000/hrs/yr some shmuck time for training and traveling, which I assume isnt free....now most Americans if they have a job work a minimum of 2880/hr/yr, and not for that kind of money...so before you spit on that mech or rampman or csr remember this....who has got more to lose in this game buddy???

 

[The Ronin]

With that said, I can also see you have a deep hatred for anything and anyone wearing a pair of United pilot wings

Not exactly true. Yes, I am vocal about both the imbalance and inequitable relationships occuring here. I do not believe that successful and selfishness/greed can exist in the same sentence. I have been around you guys as you used to call LUV pilots scabs. I never have called LUV mechs scabs, many are friends of mine and they have always been helpful with info on guppy problems and generous with misc parts when the need occurred. Point is, there was a desire from management to pilots to every other employee group to be successful with their PILOTS leading the way. Now its not a perfect eutopian world there and as in all things, there will be difficulties ahead. But they are HIRING mechs even in this enviroment, making $8/hr more than me and taking market share from everybody (what I am eluding to is this is a sign of success, not my envy). Their F/A's just got a big bump and their company's future is very optimistic and why????....because their management and PILOTS I believe led the way. Is this overly simplistic, yes it is. In this game of poker with the stakes being our livelyhoods, at a time we collectively should be demanding good management, ALPA once again alienates itself from the rank and file. There WAS a purpose for those comments made or they wouldn't have been said. Once again bad timing ALPA like the contract of 2000. And when you look at NWA, DAL and UAL, I believe the government, companies and rank and file workers agree....ALPA, you gotta go.

 

[magsau]

45% paycut and yet you are at about industry average and have the flying earing potential of $140k to $203k per year????? Hard for most Americans in this job market to have much empathy with that.

20% pension cut....remember folks, once again based on numbers AFTER contract 2000 and they have 2 plans....nice

If 200K for a 30year 777 or 747 Capt is too much for you to stomach, perhaps you made a wrong turn at the airport when you enrolled in A&P school. I am sure they was not a ban on learning to fly when you got your A&P. In fact I am qutie shure.

Don't come back after knowing the pay scales in the old days and complain that someone else makes too much. If we are right on average and may I point out underaverage for the 737 and A320's when compared to SWA you might want to put down your lug wrench and relax a bit Francis.

The only good thing about UAL is that for the most part people like yourself are no longer around. Most of the people left a mostly level headed and can see the big picture, instead of the cartoon world you live in.

 

[The Ronin]

If 200K for a 30year 777 or 747 Capt is too much for you to stomach, perhaps you made a wrong turn at the airport when you enrolled in A&P school. I am sure they was not a ban on learning to fly when you got your A&P. In fact I am qutie shure.

I am sure the Brontosaurous's were saying something similar to the mammals whIle they were dropping huge dumps on them, but in the end, who survived? BTW, a little frazzled with the "quite sure" thing, but thats ok, you're very educated ya know

The only good thing about UAL is that for the most part people like yourself are no longer around. Most of the people left a mostly level headed and can see the big picture, instead of the cartoon world you live in.

Really??? Where did they go???? Now who is REALLY living in the cartoon world my friend?? Just because I post what most people are thinking and BTW, saying. Pure economics and free market are coming after you my friend like that big 'ol meteorite, and when a big animal like that falls down, it can feed the little animals for a long, long time. Good Day, Sir

 

[novaqt]

I believe US Airway pilots pension plan went to the PBGC and US Airways has created a Defined self-directed plan for them. I may be wrong, but not all plans went to the PBGC??

What is management doing with their pension plans? Any one heard?

People should get more information before getting alarmed.

I also believe Congress will not let the whole airline industry dump their plans on to the govenment. This whole thing should take some time to resolve.

 

[Taipan]

I can assure you that in apples to apples comparison of staffing levels at my station american has more employees in every area
Bagroom 1 ual to 3 aa
Mail 0 ual to 1 aa which means a permanent ramp service person at the mailhouse all day, at Ual 1 csr is supposed to do mail/freight/interline bag runner, aa has 3 employees for these jobs
Ticket Counter probably 1 ual to every 2 aa
LH bagroom 1 ual at 11:00 am for start, second person at 1:00 pm for 3:50 departure
KLM bagroom for comparison 4 employees from 11:00 am tll the end
etc
of course there are variables american has more flights but the difference is mainly some rjs
Now what would really be ugly is if I compares us to sw for the amount off flights/work that they do compared to us and there staffing levels
Rest assured that we are working at this station with minimum staffing or as some would call it maximum efficency, and I havent even accounted for the charters.

 

[The Ronin]

Not according to ALPA....

 

[ualdriver]

Ronin-

I heard a secret rumor from ALPA today but you have to promise you're not going to tell anyone, OK? Well, at your last union meeting, ALPA had black helicopters hovering overhead listening to what was going on inside. The plan now is to get your pension liquidated, and then take that money to give all ALPA members a BIG RAISE! Then they're going to take the rest of the money and use that to fund their ALPA pension fund and give all their ALPA retirees EVEN MORE MONEY! Yup, it's true! You heard it here first! Rage against the machine Ronin!! Burn the house down!! They're coming after you!!

 

[737nCH11]

I would like to request 50% of the doughnuts that used to go to the mechanic's break room.

 

[magsau]

I am sure the Brontosaurous's were saying something similar to the mammals whIle they were dropping huge dumps on them, but in the end, who survived? BTW, a little frazzled with the "quite sure" thing, but thats ok, you're very educated ya know
Really??? Where did they go???? Now who is REALLY living in the cartoon world my friend?? Just because I post what most people are thinking and BTW, saying. Pure economics and free market are coming after you my friend like that big 'ol meteorite, and when a big animal like that falls down, it can feed the little animals for a long, long time. Good Day, Sir

[post="167529"][/post]​

Sorry mate about the typo. Was typing on the run. Still have a job to do, for now I suppose.

Where is the mechanicspay.com site? How do you stack up with the boys over at Jiffly Lube? Should you not be paid and benefited on the lowest common denominator if you are mandating that for the other employees?

As for you being the voice of the airline? Hardly. Have not spoken to anyone with your type of mentality. Of course speaking may be difficult at best for some one of your caliber. Grunts and hand signals may be all that is left of your miserable mind.