AWA's first PILOT leaves USAirways

[Walmartgreeter]

Some might say that some of the 570's intended to scab but never had the chance to since the strike ended before they were called upon by the company.

I guess you guys are just throwing out flame bait now. The 570 were "there," called to work by the company to start scab work on the day of the strike. I, me, myself, walked out of the company paid hotel and found 2 sets of buses...company and ALPA.

We got on the ALPA bus, and were driven to a large facility where over a thousand pilots cheered on the countdown to the strike

Do you think my memory is that vague on my "first day of work" at a major airline.

We have kept our list "scab" free here on the East. We thought it the right thing to do. Must be other priorties on the West.

Greeter.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Non-union airlines can do whatever they want


Maybe I am off base, and have not a clue....can you direct me to a Major Airline in US (the world?) That does not respect the concept of length of service, or DOH?

I am sure it is different as some foreign airlines where you only sign up for a length of time...but I cannot think of even a regional that does not respect this cornerstone.

Even the DAL F/As are non union....DAL does not do "whatever it wants."

And why would you want me to "have a chance" or actually scab? That would be a heck of a point to prove.., not to mention the cost.

Why are you West guys even here on this forum? You have possession of a great list, and you have made peace with your own scabs. Pretty soon you will all be diaper driving to PHL to claim your widebody seats. You guys have the world by the nad's!

....or maybe not.

Greeter.

 

[ussnark]

Your years of service mean nothing if you go to Delta or any other carrier so why should it be any different if this is a new entity/carrier. A fundamental flaw in your logic is that it totally disregards existing SENIORITY at the old entities (AWA & USold). The Award honors SENIORITY, not your length of time at your OLD carrier.

Welcome to US. Your years at AWA mean you start at zero at US. Have a good day, sir.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Non-union airlines can do whatever they want
Maybe I am off base, and have not a clue....can you direct me to a Major Airline in US (the world?) That does not respect the concept of length of service, or DOH?

Irrelevant. My point being they are not required to do so.

I am sure it is different as some foreign airlines where you only sign up for a length of time...but I cannot think of even a regional that does not respect this cornerstone.

Omni Air is an example. But it's still irrelevant.

And why would you want me to "have a chance" or actually scab?

I don't want anybody to scab. Since you're so willing to scab I just want you to have the chance to fulfill your destiny. It's all about you.

Why are you West guys even here on this forum?

I can't speak for my colleagues but I'm here for the same reason I'm on the ALPA Boards, Flightinfo.com, the TWA Pilots' message board, the APA board, and formerly the Planebusiness boards: to present facts and rational opinions. I don't know why but I seem to be in the minority in not letting emotion get the better of me. I also don't hurl insults while hiding behing internet anonymity.

You have possession of a great list,

I only think it's a good list. Could've been better but Nicolau had to compromise a little, right?

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

What would be the definition of a Scab?

Slang. A person regarded as contemptible.

A worker who refuses membership in a labor union.
An employee who works while others are on strike; a strikebreaker.
A person hired to replace a striking worker

I am surprized 700 hasn't piped and mentioned the 1992 strike and what the east pilots did.

 

[Bud8EE]

Irrelevant. My point being they are not required to do smni Air is an example. But it's still irrelevant.I don't want anybody to scab. Since you're so willing to scab I just want you to have the chance to fulfill your destiny. It's all about you.I can't speak for my colleagues but I'm here for the same reason I'm on the ALPA Boards, Flightinfo.com, the TWA Pilots' message board, the APA board, and formerly the Planebusiness boards: to present facts and rational opinions. I don't know why but I seem to be in the minority in not letting emotion get the better of me. I also don't hurl insults while hiding behing internet anonymity.I only think it's a good list. Could've been better but Nicolau had to compromise a little, right?

The real problem is ExTWA pilot is that you were robbed by AA and are angry and rightfully so, and now through a screwed up policy, the right arbitrator, and a stroke of fate you think you have been able to recoup what you lost in an instant. You have your teeth sunk into it now, and you will spin it in any way you can not to accept that you are thieving someone else's seniority. Of course you will never admit that to yourself, or maybe you do but never here.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Dear xB717, Did McNerlin and a host of other AWA pilot "Scab" or at least end up on the Scab List? This requires a YES or a NO answer.

I have no idea and I don't care. Bug the others who wish to continue that conversation.

 

[Hawkhunter]

[
Could the Scabby nature of the HP ALPA members explain the gloating over Nicolau?
[/quote]


BINGO! You my friend have hit the nail on the head!

 

[exB717Flyer]

The real problem is ExTWA pilot is that you were robbed by AA and are angry and rightfully so, and now through a screwed up policy, the right arbitrator, and a stroke of fate you think you have been able to recoup what you lost in an instant.

Jeepers, you have a warped sense of reality. I haven't recouped anything! I'm still a junior FO under the Nicolau list and if I accept recall to AA I'll be a junior FO there. APA robbed us because they could and did so under the guise of protecting their own. This is what pilots and probably any other union group would do if they could. Just human nature.

ALPA Merger Policy is a check-and-balance to that human nature. A neutral is the only way to guarantee no windfalls. But just like when you go to court you risk not liking the result but that's the way it is. The AAA MC did their best but didn't convince Nicolau their way was right. Now you presume that since Nic didn't see things your way he must not have followed ALPA Policy. Plus you project your sense of entitlement on me. Laughable on both counts. I'm not a vengeful person but I sincerely hope there are consequences to the AAA MEC making a mockery of ALPA Policy.

Could the Scabby nature of the HP ALPA members explain the gloating over Nicolau?

Boy, are you jumping off the deep end. Yes, there are number of scabs at AWA. Not a darn thing I can do about that. Nor can I do a darn thing about the scabs at United, Continental, AirTran, Jetblue, Northwest, and where ever else they reside. You're trying to employ guilt by association but only fouling yourself in the process.

 

[EastUS]

APA robbed us because they could and did so under the guise of protecting their own. This is what pilots and probably any other union group would do if they could. Just human nature.

I've observed a common notion inherent in most all posted AWA rationalizations that embraces a rather jaundiced view of human nature = "APA robbed us because they could"...."This is what pilots and probably any other union group would do if they could. Just human nature."

"Just human nature."........

I suppose that such thinking makes it possible for others here to have noted what a "great guy" the Scab, who's exiting started this thread was/is.

FYI: Historically; "human nature" has also encompassed magnificent sacrifice, and dedication to higher ideals, practiced even to the point of life-sacrificing measures. The entire species simply isn't cast from utterly base metal...or it would have failed long ago. There IS actually such a thing as "doing the right thing"...even if it kills you.

 

[Bud8EE]

Jeepers, you have a warped sense of reality. I haven't recouped anything! I'm still a junior FO under the Nicolau list and if I accept recall to AA I'll be a junior FO there. APA robbed us because they could and did so under the guise of protecting their own. This is what pilots and probably any other union group would do if they could. Just human nature.

ALPA Merger Policy is a check-and-balance to that human nature. A neutral is the only way to guarantee no windfalls. But just like when you go to court you risk not liking the result but that's the way it is. The AAA MC did their best but didn't convince Nicolau their way was right. Now you presume that since Nic didn't see things your way he must not have followed ALPA Policy. Plus you project your sense of entitlement on me. Laughable on both counts. I'm not a vengeful person but I sincerely hope there are consequences to the AAA MEC making a mockery of ALPA Policy.

The response I expected.

Being at NWA and having originated at Hughes Air West, I have had a good look at mergers along the way and I have heard all the arguments and all the integration schemes. It doesn't matter whether your a pilot or a boiler maker, the only way order any group of similarly skilled workers is by who came first. You order your list that way, so does this east and the combination should be as well. The only thing a national merger policy should do is allow for a process to create fences, conditions, and restrictions to protect the positive shorter term impact and expectations of pre merger and protections against negative events such as a downturn, down bid, or furlough.


Don't worry, even though we have 3 times the wide bodies aircraft that you do and an extensive international network, I will fight against the argument that it should weight a seniority integration in our favor if and when it comes.

 

[exB717Flyer]

There IS actually such a thing as "doing the right thing"...even if it kills you.

You're absolutely right. I'm glad we did the right thing by following ALPA Merger Policy. Too bad your side is trying to circumvent it for your own gain.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE(EastUS @ Jul 1 2007, 09:01 AM)
There IS actually such a thing as "doing the right thing"...even if it kills you.

You're absolutely right. I'm glad we did the right thing by following ALPA Merger Policy. Too bad your side is trying to circumvent it for your own gain.

If you feel Just..then proceed along your chosen path, as we will.

"Alpo told me so" doesn't hold much weight with me as per determining the morality of any situation. :down:

 

[exB717Flyer]

It doesn't matter whether your a pilot or a boiler maker, the only way order any group of similarly skilled workers is by who came first.

Right -- even if that grants a windfall to one side. Nice try. The Policy was changed like fifteen years ago. Did you raise this same objection when Nicolau ruled on the Shuttle merger? He was good enough for you back then, wasn't he. In fact, he was good enough for you all the way up until ruled in a way you don't like. Suddenly, he's a violator of Policy and all who agree with him are liars and windfall-seekers. You so funny.

 

[EastUS]

Right -- even if that grants a windfall to one side. Nice try. The Policy was changed like fifteen years ago. Did you raise this same objection when Nicolau ruled on the Shuttle merger? He was good enough for you back then, wasn't he. In fact, he was good enough for you all the way up until ruled in a way you don't like. Suddenly, he's a violator of Policy and all who agree with him are liars and windfall-seekers. You so funny.

"If you feel Just..then proceed along your chosen path, as we will."

All the puppy-yapping in the world won't change the situation, nor "justify" any of it.