It seems to me that the only one's overly excited about this merger are employees of U. Maybe its because they know they'll be out of a job in short time without this merger. AWA would not. I think that if you want to go by career expectations then U employees should definetly be stapled to the bottom of AWA employees. AWA wasn't threatened by immediate liqudation as U was/is. It's therefore easy to see that using "career expectations" that the AWA employees could expect to be around next year while the U employees were looking at unemployment.
Awa Pilots Throw 1st Merger Molotav Cocktail
- Thread starter EyeInTheSky
- Start date
michael707767
Senior
- Aug 21, 2002
- 332
- 0
BoeingBoy said:
Wow, that is the most logical and mature statement I have ever heard about merging pilot groups. Good for you.
whatkindoffreshhell said:
Baloney! The investors are not puting their money in US Airways or America West. They are investing in US Airways AND America West... a combined company with a combined route network, combined fleet, and combined workers. They are investing in a synergy. US Airways employees are every bit a part of that as America West employees. AWA did not buy UAIR, as evidenced by the fact that our CEO will be vice chair of the new US AIRWAYS!
Are you sure about that?
America West to Buy US Airways :huh:
Updated: 08:14 AM EDT
America West to buy U.S. Airways
By John Crawley, Reuters
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - America West Holdings Corp. (AWA.N) and a group of investors would buy bankrupt US Airways Group Inc (UAIAQ.OB) in a bid to compete with low-cost rivals under a merger plan announced on Thursday.
Using approximately $1.5 billion in new capital, the deal would save No. 7 US Airways from possible failure and expand the reach of No. 8 America West in lucrative eastern markets for business travel like Washington and New York. The combined carrier would also fly internationally.
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Is that a stapler I hear? :unsure: I wonder if all the Kumbaya singers will still be happy if AWA pulls off what I expect them to try. AFA should keep the f/a's safe *with the exception of the 10 year fence I heard is in the works*, but the rest of you may be in for a ride. Best of luck to all of you.
America West to Buy US Airways :huh:
Updated: 08:14 AM EDT
America West to buy U.S. Airways
By John Crawley, Reuters
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - America West Holdings Corp. (AWA.N) and a group of investors would buy bankrupt US Airways Group Inc (UAIAQ.OB) in a bid to compete with low-cost rivals under a merger plan announced on Thursday.
Using approximately $1.5 billion in new capital, the deal would save No. 7 US Airways from possible failure and expand the reach of No. 8 America West in lucrative eastern markets for business travel like Washington and New York. The combined carrier would also fly internationally.
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Is that a stapler I hear? :unsure: I wonder if all the Kumbaya singers will still be happy if AWA pulls off what I expect them to try. AFA should keep the f/a's safe *with the exception of the 10 year fence I heard is in the works*, but the rest of you may be in for a ride. Best of luck to all of you.
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
Well said!
nostradamus said:
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
I agree Bob....
PineyBob said:
PHX Flyer
Member
DCAflyer said:
Actually, technically AWA is bidding on US Airways. The US CEO was offered vice chairmanship, because this is a "friendly" takeover. It remains to be seen how long he is going to keep his new job.
johnnyfleet
Advanced
- Oct 3, 2002
- 109
- 0
I think I should be #1 on the fleet service seniority list, even though I'm not even close now, that would make the merger fair to me
Fly said:
Frankly, Fly, I expected more from you. You have sunk to a new low, in my book. For every newspaper you can post saying AWA is buying US Airways, I can post probably 20 that say it's a merger. Plus, the companies are calling it a merger.
Secondly, as far a stapling... AFA bylaws are more than clear on the subject. There is no such thing as stapling, fencing, or anything else. Any attemp to do so would be a violation of the AFA bylaws that both groups must abide by. There is no ambiguity in the language and the framers of the AFA bylaws clearly went to great lenghths to articulate their intentions.
PHX Flyer said:
That is not entirely true. As I understand it, a new holding company is being formed to purchase both airlines, technically purchasing US Airways in bankruptcy, and separately purchasing AWA. One transaction is not independent of the other... in other words, if there were a bidding war (unlikely, IMHO) and the holding company lost out on US Airways, it would not proceed to complete the transaction with America West.
As a outside observer I forsee a lot of problems with the seniority integration between US and HP. U employees trying to take the high road by stating that it should be done according to union rules are just hiding behind the fact they'd be very happy to staple the HP employees to the bottom of their seniority lists (because almost all of HP employees has a latter date of higher). It's easy to follow the rules when they're stacked totally in your favor.
I totally understand HP's fears. If my airline were to be merged with U, I and most of my cohorts would be junior to U employees. I'd be damned if I would have taken less pay, worked harder, etc. to make my airline successful, use my sacrifices to make a merger work (the merger wouldn't happen if HP wasn't bringing cash/assets to the table), and then I ended up junior to those who (or at least the management) choked the golden goose until it was just short of death.
Why should an HP employee be furloughed as part of the merger? No merger, no HP employee would be fearing for their job--at least short term. U employees expect HP employees to be happy on the bottom--even with fences. But we all know who gets furloughed according to union rules. Those on the bottom. 50 of the 60 airplanes to be returned to lessors are from U. Would U union employees be willing to accept 50 of every 60 furloughs come from their ranks? Would at least seem fair to an outsider--but from previous posts I'd gather U employees would shat WHHAAATTTT????
I don't think the HP ALPA Chairman was out of line--he's to represent his members. I think U employees' reaction would be more in line with, "Darn it, we hoped they wouldn't realize their going to get screwed if we do it by the book." My close friends are U employees and I hope they do well. However, I think they're future is brighter today--even if they were the ones getting stapled. When they state, "Do it by the rules" I agree with the comment that they're the ones who want their cake and to eat it too.
I totally understand HP's fears. If my airline were to be merged with U, I and most of my cohorts would be junior to U employees. I'd be damned if I would have taken less pay, worked harder, etc. to make my airline successful, use my sacrifices to make a merger work (the merger wouldn't happen if HP wasn't bringing cash/assets to the table), and then I ended up junior to those who (or at least the management) choked the golden goose until it was just short of death.
Why should an HP employee be furloughed as part of the merger? No merger, no HP employee would be fearing for their job--at least short term. U employees expect HP employees to be happy on the bottom--even with fences. But we all know who gets furloughed according to union rules. Those on the bottom. 50 of the 60 airplanes to be returned to lessors are from U. Would U union employees be willing to accept 50 of every 60 furloughs come from their ranks? Would at least seem fair to an outsider--but from previous posts I'd gather U employees would shat WHHAAATTTT????
I don't think the HP ALPA Chairman was out of line--he's to represent his members. I think U employees' reaction would be more in line with, "Darn it, we hoped they wouldn't realize their going to get screwed if we do it by the book." My close friends are U employees and I hope they do well. However, I think they're future is brighter today--even if they were the ones getting stapled. When they state, "Do it by the rules" I agree with the comment that they're the ones who want their cake and to eat it too.
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
DCAflyer said:
Didn't take long. The knives are coming out.
You don't need any of us outsiders to undermine this "match made in heaven." You will do a good enough job of it for yourselves.
markkus757
Veteran
- Jul 26, 2004
- 598
- 1
I personally think that they have enough cash to offer early outs for anybody over 15 years seniority for any group. I think they need to start fresh and this would be the most effective way for several reasons.
1.) They would be able to cut costs in the long-term.
2.) They would have a much easier time integrating the rest of labor that is still employed.
3.) They would change the attitude and direction of the company. This is going to be the most challenging for Mr. Parker.
When I mean giving early outs, I mean making it worth while to even consider it. A lot of people have been burnt out by the previous 10 years at US. They want somthing to grasp that will give them hope after US. I think if HP's pilots could go along with this, they could look forward to some widebody flying that is currently being done by the most senior pilots of the combined labor group. Integration could become very easy, knowing that there is a chance to grow into a greater position at a company on the rise. Doug Parker has some very important decisions to make regarding his new company going forward. I believe that there will be break even for most of the other groups due to the fact there is little overlap. Maybe some HP mechanics come east, and maybe some US mechanics go west.
1.) They would be able to cut costs in the long-term.
2.) They would have a much easier time integrating the rest of labor that is still employed.
3.) They would change the attitude and direction of the company. This is going to be the most challenging for Mr. Parker.
When I mean giving early outs, I mean making it worth while to even consider it. A lot of people have been burnt out by the previous 10 years at US. They want somthing to grasp that will give them hope after US. I think if HP's pilots could go along with this, they could look forward to some widebody flying that is currently being done by the most senior pilots of the combined labor group. Integration could become very easy, knowing that there is a chance to grow into a greater position at a company on the rise. Doug Parker has some very important decisions to make regarding his new company going forward. I believe that there will be break even for most of the other groups due to the fact there is little overlap. Maybe some HP mechanics come east, and maybe some US mechanics go west.
