AWA's first PILOT leaves USAirways

[Bud8EE]

Right -- even if that grants a windfall to one side. Nice try. The Policy was changed like fifteen years ago. Did you raise this same objection when Nicolau ruled on the Shuttle merger? He was good enough for you back then, wasn't he. In fact, he was good enough for you all the way up until ruled in a way you don't like. Suddenly, he's a violator of Policy and all who agree with him are liars and windfall-seekers. You so funny.

The policy was right 15 years ago, and short sighted pilot greed and the selfish needs of a pilot group(UAL) who predicted a merger in their future politicked for the change. It wasn't to make the policy better or right, just to serve an ALPA heavyweight's need.

Since I am not with US, I don't see how the shuttle merger or Nicalou affected me directly. It could help many here though if we were to merge with a company like yours. I am in the top few percent so the policy whatever it is, will have little impact on me. I imagine though if my carrier and yours was to merge, many here would feel that Nicalou did a good job, since our # of wide bodies triple yours, and our # of 757's nearly double yours a great many US pilots East and West should go to the bottom tp preserve "the jobs we brought to the merger" for our pilots. Based on Nicalou's assumptions there would be good arguments but oh would the West pilots cry for fences then. I would still feel that anything less the DOH is wrong and a detriment to the profession but you would be getting exactlly what you deserve, the same screw job you are hoping to give your fellow aviators on the East.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

When you ponder why you have the lowest pay scales in the industry could your answer to me and the actions of other AWA pilots whose names landed on "The List" be part of the reason?

Part of the reason for what? Scabs caused higher payrates for the AWA Pilots as opposed to the lower rates at U? You make it sound like Scabs are a good thing.

Could the Scabby nature of the HP ALPA members explain the gloating over Nicolau?

First off what % of the AWA Pilots are known Scabs?
Would you care to ponder how many Airlines have Scabs amongst their union members?
Since when does being a member of a union that has Scabs within the membership make ALL members Scabs and scabby by nature?
Since when does a union control who the company hires?
How many Scabs have any or all unions been successful in having fired for Scabbing after a strike has ended and the strikers return to work?

What % of the AWA Pilots are gloating on here (I am assuming the gloating you are talking about is first hand gloating you are reading on here)

No I think the limited gloating you read on here is a direct result of the widespread sour grapes expressed by U Pilots and their crybaby attitudes

Yes this whole Scab issue is just another attempt by the U pilots to grasp at anything. Mudslinging at it's dirty political best.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

There IS actually such a thing as "doing the right thing"...even if it kills you.

And obviously living up to your word is not a "doing the right thing" when it comes to the U Pilots.

QUOTE(EastUS @ Jul 1 2007, 09:01 AM)
There IS actually such a thing as "doing the right thing"...even if it kills you.
If you feel Just..then proceed along your chosen path, as we will.

"Alpo told me so" doesn't hold much weight with me as per determining the morality of any situation. :down:

Where is the morality in you and your Unions actions?

 

[EastUS]

And obviously living up to your word is not a "doing the right thing" when it comes to the U Pilots.
Where is the morality in you and your Unions actions?

I don't seem able to recall ever giving my Word to any part of this BS travesty...and as for "your Unions actions"..such were taken without any accepted input from myself, or the vast majority of east guys, and merely served as "the last straw" for Alpo in my book. Perhaps you should consider that it's not a case of "your Unions actions?"..given that, as memory serves...AWA's also Alpo? Consider that the east/west raging fight's perhaps misdirected at each other..rather than at the idiots who made such a magnificent mess to start with = Alpo.

"If you feel Just..then proceed along your chosen path, as we will."

 

[BottomFeeder]

Yes this whole Scab issue is just another attempt by the U pilots to grasp at anything. Mudslinging at it's dirty political best.

Charlie Tuna,

A Scab is and always be just a Scab.

This man is a Scab

AWA has Scabs on their list

You call it Mudslinging...We call it the truth

Sometimes the truth hurts

Cheers

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE(Charlie_Tuna @ Jul 1 2007, 09:50 PM)

"Yes this whole Scab issue is just another attempt by the U pilots to grasp at anything. Mudslinging at it's dirty political best."

Charlie Tuna,

A Scab is and always be just a Scab.

This man is a Scab

AWA has Scabs on their list

You call it Mudslinging...We call it the truth

Sometimes the truth hurts

Cheers

I think he just meant to say: "Pardon our Scabs" Or perhaps "We don't see any problem with them..why should you guys?"

Seriously though; there's apparently a great difference in the viewpoints east/west as per scabs.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

I don't seem able to recall ever giving my Word to any part of this BS travesty...and as for "your Unions actions"..such were taken without any accepted input from myself, or the vast majority of east guys, and merely served as "the last straw" for Alpo in my book. Perhaps you should consider that it's not a case of "your Unions actions?"..given that, as memory serves...AWA's also Alpo? Consider that the east/west raging fight's perhaps misdirected at each other..rather than at the idiots who made such a magnificent mess to start with = Alpo.

"If you feel Just..then proceed along your chosen path, as we will."

How about your "MEC's" Is that more palatable to you?

No worries about "bs travesties" and "union actions" and the such anyway. Your MEC took the right action taking it to court. The courts will make sure you abide by the the "word" you didn't give. If not when AWA MEC wins this round then when they win the court case they are bound to file.

Charlie Tuna,

A Scab is and always be just a Scab.

This man is a Scab

AWA has Scabs on their list

You call it Mudslinging...We call it the truth

Sometimes the truth hurts

Cheers

Yes I agree he is a Scab and agree that topic is supposed to and should be about a this AWA Pilot.

But as usual the East has used this opportunity to blow up the Scab issue with this one Pilot (and a few others) to make it reflect on the whole West Pilot group and further their smear and mubslinging campaign to justify their repulsive actions regarding the NIC award. You know it and I and I know it. Therein lies the problem.

 

[EastUS]

But as usual the East has used this opportunity to blow up the Scab issue with this one Pilot (and a few others) to make it reflect on the whole West Pilot group.........

Sorry..but it does reflect upon the West group, as does the AWA posters noting what a "great guy" this "person" was/is.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Seriously though; there's apparently a great difference in the viewpoints east/west as per scabs.

Yes and apparently the difference in viewpoints appears to be "guilt by membership in same union as a Scab"

Should we expand that to include "guilt by being employed by an Airline that has Scab union members"?

Oh wait that won't fly there are Scabs employed by the East.

Since you are so puffed up by your East Pilots union lack of Scabs can you expand on what you personally did AND what your East union did to make sure no Scabs were ever hired or merged into your group?

And while you are at it would you mind answering these same Questions I anked Pines..

Would you care to ponder how many Airlines have Scabs amongst their union members?
Since when does being a member of a union that has Scabs within the membership make ALL members Scabs and scabby by nature?
Since when does a union control who the company hires?
How many Scabs have any or all unions been successful in having fired for Scabbing after a strike has ended and the strikers return to work?

And lets play fair. Answer every question before you continue calling me an associate Scab.

And one last question will you drop the "guilt by membership in same union as a Scab" monker when the merger of the Airline is complete (assuming it happens before it is destroyed) kinda like you dropped the binding from "binding arbitration" when things didn't go your way?

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Sorry..but it does reflect upon the West group, as does the AWA posters noting what a "great guy" this "person" was/is.

After you finish answering the above post questions..

Since when does what a few posters on an internet board say reflect on what the whole AWA West group thinks? Since when does one's own personal opinions reflect on the personal opinions of the whole? Does that mean if one East Pilot posts on here (and he might have already posted) that he has no problem with this Pilot being a Scab that should reflect on the whole East Pilot group? As much as you want EVERYTHING a one way highway for the East Pilots you are not the only ones on the highway.

And have you verified each alleged West Pilot posters real identity to make sure they are not really East Pilots or someone else with a axe to grind that might be posting misinformation.

 

[BottomFeeder]

After you finish answering the above post questions..



And have you verified each alleged West Pilot posters real identity to make sure they are not really East Pilots or someone else with a axe to grind that might be posting misinformation.

Charlie Tuna,

You talk about how unfair the East guys are with mudslinging. Then you turn around and flame the East yourself.

Is this do as I say and not as I do?

Cheers

 

[EastUS]

As much as you want EVERYTHING a one way highway for the East Pilots you are not the only ones on the highway.

I don't want everything as a one way highway. Once the list was posted, and ANY notions of compromise (fences/whatever) were suggested, and immediately shot down by the AWA posters..well?..What to do then/now? It seems from all that I've seen posted that the AWA side's comitted to a "winner take all" in the Nic business..and the US side's adamantly refusing to accept any such result. I long ago suggested considering fences that would prevent either side from any "windfall"...such notions were met only with sarcastic ridicule and complete contempt hereabouts. I still believe that the east would buy off on such..although we've all had plenty of time to get seriously angry. I even feel that there is yet some hope for Alpo's survival out east (although I'd be VERY happy to be rid of them)....if the worthless idiots would actually get off their butts and DO something that spread some oil on the east/west waters..other than stall for time, and hope that tempers subside, so that they can keep their "phoney-baloney jobs". That doesn't seem to be happening. The longer this goes on...the more firmly the battle lines appear to be drawn.

I take your point as to the lack of positive ID for posters here. It honestly didn't occur to me to wonder about such...since there's been little shortage of east/west animosity as it is. There'd seem little need to provoke more via clandestine postings to my mind.

As absurd as the notion may seem...I truly do wish you guys/gals out west well. I had personally hoped for a decently combined operation that would have facilitated a much better contract, and future for all. It's sad that we're locked up in a messy fight over some actions from intractable, and wholly unimaginative Alpo idiots on both MEC's, and an arbitrator's whim...but we are both east/west set for battle nonetheless.

When two sides take up utterly intractable, and diametrically opposed positions...Von Clausewitz's principles come into play.

I sincerely wish that it were otherwise.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

double post

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Charlie Tuna,

You talk about how unfair the East guys are with mudslinging. Then you turn around and flame the East yourself.

Is this do as I say and not as I do?

Cheers

As I expected not one of my questions answered or even addressed. I did nt turn around and flame anyone I just pointed out that you never know for sure who is behind what is being posted. I not only talked about how it unfair you are (East guys if indeed you are really East guys <_< ) labeling ALL the West Pilots as something less then you because Scabs happen to reside on their list or ALL west Pilots are Scab supporters because someone on their list posts an opinion that a certain Scab wasn't a bad guy.

I don't want everything as a one way highway. Once the list was posted, and ANY notions of compromise (fences/whatever) were suggested, and immediately shot down by the AWA posters..well?..What to do then/now? It seems from all that I've seen posted that the AWA side's comitted to a "winner take all" in the Nic business..and the US side's adamantly refusing to accept any such result. I long ago suggested considering fences that would prevent either side from any "windfall"...such notions were met only with sarcastic ridicule and complete contempt hereabouts. I still believe that the east would buy off on such..although we've all had plenty of time to get seriously angry.

Compromise? Fences? Etc? After the list was posted??? Hello Don't you think you had plenty of time for that before? Even the during the arbitration the Arbitrator tried to get you to go back and negotiate. Instead you and your MEC took a hard line DOH approach with little if any offer of compromise.(and the transcripts don't lie). It was then agreed to and sent to binding arbitration as the Merger Policy requires. The time to negotiate was BEFORE an arbitration award was announced. Any failure to get what you wanted is your own fault and not anyone elses.

Again I ask both of you:
Since you are so puffed up by your East Pilots union lack of Scabs can you expand on what you personally did AND what your East union did to make sure no Scabs were ever hired or merged into your group?

Would you care to ponder how many Airlines have Scabs amongst their union members?
Since when does being a member of a union that has Scabs within the membership make ALL members Scabs and scabby by nature?
Since when does a union control who the company hires?
How many Scabs have any or all unions been successful in having fired for Scabbing after a strike has ended and the strikers return to work?

And lets play fair. Answer every question before you continue calling me an associate Scab.

And one last question will you drop the "guilt by membership in same union as a Scab" monker when the merger of the Airline is complete (assuming it happens before it is destroyed) kinda like you dropped the binding from "binding arbitration" when things didn't go your way?

Since when does what a few posters on an internet board say reflect on what the whole AWA West group thinks? Since when does one's own personal opinions reflect on the personal opinions of the whole? Does that mean if one East Pilot posts on here (and he might have already posted) that he has no problem with this Pilot being a Scab that should reflect on the whole East Pilot group? As much as you want EVERYTHING a one way highway for the East Pilots you are not the only ones on the highway.

And have you verified each alleged West Pilot posters real identity to make sure they are not really East Pilots or someone else with a axe to grind that might be posting misinformation.

 

[EastUS]

Compromise? Fences? Etc? After the list was posted??? Hello Don't you think you had plenty of time for that before?

You're adamantly opposed to any attempts at compromise I see.
Fair enough: "Fight's On" then...and we can all deal with the consequences :blink:

As per Scabs?=You've got 'em/we don't. Have a nice day.