AWA ALPA Thread for the Week 9/14-9/20

[EastUS]

Could you explain the difference?

Aren't people upset about the seniority situation largely because it will affect how much money they can earn?

So why is one worth getting emotional over but the other isn't?

It's a larger issue that goes beyond simple renumeration. Seniority also dictates the type of schedule one may obtain. There's an enourmous difference in the quality of life for reserves than line holders for example. There's also little heartfelt desire in the east to see people who weren't born when the former started flying take the captain's seat.

 

[AWA320]

Hey! Wait a minute here : Aren't you the very same guy who's latest PM to me included: AWA320: "I am and about to take the upgrade in PHL when this is said and done!!"???

I'll still go with kindly suggesting that you change your medications good sir

I mess with you because you're easy!!! Your career didn't turn out like you wanted it to and or thought it would so you blame us in the west like we did it to you!!! It's all the west's fault!! If they had just left well enough alone we would be on our way to profits and attrition. Our company was in bankruptcy for show only. We had just about half of our pilot group on furlough to make it all look good!! Well i for one wish that the first deal would have gone thru with ATA and then the world would have really seen just how strong and profitable you were. What seems to always bother the intelligent mind is how and why you were in bankruptcy in the first place or should I have said the second in 24 months place??? With such a profitable operation, shouldn't you have been hiring instead of furloughing?? Shouldn't you have been growing instead of returning large aircraft for smaller RJ's??? I guess we will never know now will we???

 

[CactusFlyr]

There is no windfall in the top 517.

Windfall: an unexpected good fortune.

The top 517 already had those positions. A windfall would imply that they got those positions "unexpectedly". The "award" was simply status quo for them.

Your "top" pilots never expected to fly a more-than-one-aisle aircraft. Gifting them a wide-body would have been "unexpected", therefore, a windfall, just like all those four year wonders who now are looking at Capt. slots. They expected those positions in ten years, not four. An unexpected good fortune, the definition of a windfall.

Perhaps you should do some reading....

By your reasoning, anyone on the US East side that still has a job should be considered a windfall. You were headed for the street, nowhere else.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320 - It does seem as if (by reading your recent posts in this thread) you are now worried that the award will be altered or tossed aside. This of course has your boy shorts in a twist... Your MEC should realize that the east guys have been through the worst and you are dealing with fire... I hope you don't get burned, just remember what happens to them happens to you =) ..... YOU ARE THE MINORITY!!!

Not in the least my good lady! The mec on my side is perfectly safe. You see we went to what's called BINDING ARBITRATION, you should look the term up and understand it's meaning. This arbitration will stand the test of any court. What they have gone thru in the past is of little or no concern to us what so ever!! The bank could care less that you had a bad month and that you had family die or you lost your job. They want their money regardless, well the same applies here. I simply don't care about their bad past as it's of no value to present day situations.

Now what I will tell you is this, the east is headed for the biggest fall yet. Wait until you see bases within bases then watch how bad they have it as they begin to shrink. Come sept 25th company gloves will come off and you will all see just how our management plays this game. Dont say we did try to warn you over and over!!!

 

[Bear96]

It's a larger issue that goes beyond simple renumeration. Seniority also dictates the type of schedule one may obtain. There's an enourmous difference in the quality of life for reserves than line holders for example.

I understand seniority is not all about money. But I thought with pilots that was the primary factor (to get into the left seat; to get into larger equipment -- the main advantage of which is higher pay).

So it is worth getting emotional about having weekends off (seniority) but not about a larger paycheck (money)?

Still seems like an odd distinction.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I understand seniority is not all about money. But I thought with pilots that was the primary factor (to get into the left seat; to get into larger equipment -- the main advantage of which is higher pay).

So it is worth getting emotional about having weekends off (seniority) but not about a larger paycheck (money)?

Still seems like an odd distinction.

Clearly Bear96, you don't have a family. There's more to life than flying a stupid airplane.

Later,
Eye

 

[nostradamus]

Now what I will tell you is this, the east is headed for the biggest fall yet. Wait until you see bases within bases then watch how bad they have it as they begin to shrink. Come sept 25th company gloves will come off and you will all see just how our management plays this game. Dont say we did try to warn you over and over!!!

How about December 25th?

 

[AWA320]

AWA320: "We have an opportunuity to get some money out of this company yet you focus on a tired principle."

Hmmm...I didn't realize that any actual "principle" diminished in value over time, even if by disregarding all principles, as you seem perfectly comfortable with, might prove financially beneficial. Umm..what exactly, in your mind, IS our "principle" at issue here? You've clearrly stated that there's "no windfall"...other than your intended "upgrade" in PHL I suppose

I see that the point just absolutly misses you, no real suprise there. I have stated over and over that I have no intention of doing a transcon commute to sit res capt. No sir, I live and work in the west which is just fine for me. I poke fun at you like I said before because you're easy...

PS AWA320: I'm curious. How is "Emotions seem to rule the day for you fine bunch. All of your actions are emotion without the benefit of any intellect what so ever." NOT at least some small degree of an "insult"? = "This is not an insult EYE but rather fact!!" Some future additional consideration might well be placed on your delivery of compliments then Personally? = I just find it amusing, and have no notions of duplicity by way of insulting anyone, and then pretending not to be doing exactly that. Sigh...another sadly misplaced notion of "principle" I suppose.

East, I was not attempting to be complimetary or insulting but rather stating some very simple fact!! You may indeed chose to read whatever you like into, as to my real intent but unless I inform you otherwise you simply have no clue. Now as I am sure you are well aware, I have no compunction what so ever about hurling insults however it's not about that now is it???

 

[Tiger 1050]

Naive child.

Elaborate please. Why does my comment make me naive?

 

[nostradamus]

Elaborate please. Why does my comment make me naive?

Which one of your naive comments are you talking about.

 

[Tiger 1050]

There is no windfall in the top 517.

Windfall: an unexpected good fortune.

The top 517 already had those positions. A windfall would imply that they got those positions "unexpectedly". The "award" was simply status quo for them.

Your "top" pilots never expected to fly a more-than-one-aisle aircraft. Gifting them a wide-body would have been "unexpected", therefore, a windfall, just like all those four year wonders who now are looking at Capt. slots. They expected those positions in ten years, not four. An unexpected good fortune, the definition of a windfall.

Perhaps you should do some reading....

Why do you guys refuse to comment on my statements regarding your windfall comments? Regardless of ones opinion concerning whether a windfall occured or not is irrelevent in this case. You see the negotiations failed amongst our respective merger committee's. When that happens the process steers us to mediation then to arbitration. Which my AWA bretheren have made clear is in fact binding! So do you or do you not understand that when you went to arbitration you surrendered your ability to control the outcome other than the presentation of your position to the arbiter. The arbiter is in no way bound by ALPA merger policy. Does the arbiter try to follow the guidelines? Sure! But he/she is not bound by them. IF we had come to a list such as this without the involvement of the arbitration board then yes you would have an argument. But we didn't so you don't. Please debate something that is debatable...

Try something like should we have gone to arbitration or should we have been more willing to compromise with each other....

 

[Tiger 1050]

Which one of your naive comments are you talking about.

Ya know what? I have gone out of my to be respectful and still present my opinion. You seem to be incapable of this. You only further illustrate the arrogance of the east with this attitude.

And BTW I was refering to my comment about getting along with you earlier in this thread. If you want to be a jerk, then that is fine I will get paid the same. I can seperate the two situations and not allow it to affect me at work ( I guess tht's what makes me a "rookie"). You seem to be the one that is not willing to try and get along...

 

[sharktooth]

By your reasoning, anyone on the US East side that still has a job should be considered a windfall. You were headed for the street, nowhere else.

Disagree completely. With two other investment groups hanging in the wings (A&W was not an investor group), making an operating profit I just cannot understand where you get this tripe. (Please, no more of this misinformation about only having X amount of cash for so many days - a canard the east pilots finally realized in the mid 90's - another example of experience.)

US had no plan on the table because they felt they did not need one, making money and all.
OTOH, A&W had the Zanzibar end-of-business plan locked and loaded.

So, tell me again who should feel grateful, by your standards?

 

[CactusFlyr]

Disagree completely. With two other investment groups hanging in the wings (A&W was not an investor group), making an operating profit I just cannot understand where you get this tripe. (Please, no more of this misinformation about only having X amount of cash for so many days - a canard the east pilots finally realized in the mid 90's - another example of experience.)

US had no plan on the table because they felt they did not need one, making money and all.
OTOH, A&W had the Zanzibar end-of-business plan locked and loaded.

So, tell me again who should feel grateful, by your standards?

You Dream

 

[sharktooth]

Why do you guys refuse to comment on my statements regarding your windfall comments?

Um, your statements are naive?