AWA ALPA Thread for the Week 9/14-9/20

[hp_fa]

You go to court to show damages. Both parties will have to prove their case. Believe me, this court case will set precidents.

Just a clarifying point so everyone is on the same page regarding the term "precedent". In a legal sense precedents are not set at the trial court level. The trial court is designed to determine the facts and once it does it makes a ruling that it believes is consistent with the facts determined and its interpretation of the law. The appeals court, if it accepts jurisdiction after the filing of a Notice of Appeal, determines whether the law was properly applied to the facts that were determined at the trial court level. When an appellate court renders it's Opinion, based on law and prior precedent, it may become a legal precedent for the geographical area in which that appellate court is empowered to make decisions.

An appellate court may also decide a case and issue a Memorandum Opinion in which it rules but does the ruling is not intended to set precedent. A prime example of such a situation is Bush v. Gore, where the U.S. Supreme Court ruling was "limited to the present circumstances."

This is a simplified explanation for the purpose of this message board and there are a lot of exceptions. Just be aware that common use of the word and legal use of the word are based on wholly different interpretations.

 

[nostradamus]

"And this happens on a small scale everyday at the airlines. It is very improbable to have all pilots get along at all times. Nothing new. If you are still upset when we fly together then so be it. I will get paid the same to be your friend and work together or just sit there and stare out the window enjoying the view... "


Naive child.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Just a clarifying point so everyone is on the same page regarding the term "precedent". In a legal sense precedents are not set at the trial court level. The trial court is designed to determine the facts and once it does it makes a ruling that it believes is consistent with the facts determined and its interpretation of the law. The appeals court, if it accepts jurisdiction after the filing of a Notice of Appeal, determines whether the law was properly applied to the facts that were determined at the trial court level. When an appellate court renders it's Opinion, based on law and prior precedent, it may become a legal precedent for the geographical area in which that appellate court is empowered to make decisions.

An appellate court may also decide a case and issue a Memorandum Opinion in which it rules but does the ruling is not intended to set precedent. A prime example of such a situation is Bush v. Gore, where the U.S. Supreme Court ruling was "limited to the present circumstances."

This is a simplified explanation for the purpose of this message board and there are a lot of exceptions. Just be aware that common use of the word and legal use of the word are based on wholly different interpretations.

hp_fa,

Thanks for clarifying that. It goes without saying, this 'little' dispute could go on for years.

Later,
Eye

 

[Bear96]

It goes without saying, this 'little' dispute could go on for years.

If it goes without saying, why do you keep saying it?

 

[AWA320]

There was no windfall and that has been throughly explained in the panels ruling contrary to what you think or feel personally. Now in my most humble opinion we will begin working together and much sooner than you might think and or like.
NO WINDFALL!

What are you smokin' ?

These pilot groups will never work together.

Ralph Cramden
Bus Driver

Rather than make smart A?? comments Ralph grab a copy of the award and show me where the windfall is outside of the top 517 EAST boys and girls....

You can't, none of you can!!!! All you can do is cry and whine about how the policy USED to be DOH well guess what there Ralph?? It's 2007 and the policy has been this way for well over 16 yrs. It simply amazes me how you feel that we in the west got this imaginary windfall yet you honestly believe DOH would not have been!!!

 

[EastUS]

Rather than make smart A?? comments Ralph grab a copy of the award and show me where the windfall is outside of the top 517 EAST boys and girls....

You can't, none of you can!!!! All you can do is cry and whine about how the policy USED to be DOH well guess what there Ralph?? It's 2007 and the policy has been this way for well over 16 yrs. It simply amazes me how you feel that we in the west got this imaginary windfall yet you honestly believe DOH would not have been!!!

Hey! Wait a minute here : Aren't you the very same guy who's latest PM to me included: AWA320: "I am and about to take the upgrade in PHL when this is said and done!!"???

I'll still go with kindly suggesting that you change your medications good sir

 

[sharktooth]

Rather than make smart A?? comments Ralph grab a copy of the award and show me where the windfall is outside of the top 517 EAST boys and girls....

There is no windfall in the top 517.

Windfall: an unexpected good fortune.

The top 517 already had those positions. A windfall would imply that they got those positions "unexpectedly". The "award" was simply status quo for them.

Your "top" pilots never expected to fly a more-than-one-aisle aircraft. Gifting them a wide-body would have been "unexpected", therefore, a windfall, just like all those four year wonders who now are looking at Capt. slots. They expected those positions in ten years, not four. An unexpected good fortune, the definition of a windfall.

Perhaps you should do some reading....

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Gosh the impatience is really showing. Seems some of our Westie friends have major issues and are in a quick hurry to cash in that lotto ticket. Could it be that the crazy PHX mortgage crunch is making some pilots desperate?

Later,
Eye

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

Arbitrator is not a judge in a court of law. The judge in the court will decide the case based on the merits of each of the parties involved.

True the arbitrator is not a judge however they are fully recognized by the courts which is why the chances of your even getting this into a court room is extremely remote!

You realize this is going to take years to settle, don't you? That's the one thing East pilots realize; time is on their side and they are in no hurry to do ANYTHING. They'll hold up a new contract for years. They don't care; protecting their senority means more than money to them.

If that were even slightly true we would not be seeing you cry over parity like you do now would we??? Truth be told Eye the majority of the east pilot want to be paid and it is about the money for them. Truth be told, they are sick and tired of the BK contract LOA93!!! Truth be told this award dosen't effect the overwhelming majority of EAST pilots currently on the property. Truth be really told Eye this is the furloughed pilots not even on the property whose causing the most trouble!!!

You guys on the other hand want to cash your lottery ticket, which I can't blame you.

I have read and reread and even reread this award over and over again and I am simply not able to find this windfall you speak of out side of the 517 east pilots!! Could you please give me the page number in the award you are refering to so that I can see what it is you are talking about???

At this point, I'd say fly up to Vegas and try your chances at the Craps table -- the odds are better there for getting some cash than waiting around for a new contract/windfall.

I spend more than my fair share time in LAS!! I have very little doubt in my mind about getting a contract soon contrary to what a vocal few on this board proclaim. There was/is no west windfall. We all lost relative position Eye yet you fail to see that. The east wishes to look upon the west as stealing yet you fali to want to take responsibility for your own actions. Hey if blameing others for your own failures is what gets you thru your days then I say more power to you!!! You will obviously live out the remainder of your life miserable!!

Later,
Eye

Oil is 80$ a barrel and going higher. We have an opportunuity to get some money out of this company yet you focus on a tired principle. The east can be summed up in one word, EMOTIONAL!!!! Emotions seem to rule the day for you fine bunch. All of your actions are emotion without the benefit of any intellect what so ever. They have cost you in the past and you have failed to learn from your prior mistakes. This is not an insult EYE but rather fact!! You keep letting the fish you catch get away and soon you will starve. I do hope you understand and again this is not an insult on you...

 

[EastUS]

Oil is 80$ a barrel and going higher. We have an opportunuity to get some money out of this company yet you focus on a tired principle. The east can be summed up in one word, EMOTIONAL!!!! Emotions seem to rule the day for you fine bunch. All of your actions are emotion without the benefit of any intellect what so ever. They have cost you in the past and you have failed to learn from your prior mistakes. This is not an insult EYE but rather fact!! You keep letting the fish you catch get away and soon you will starve. I do hope you understand and again this is not an insult on you...

AWA320: "We have an opportunuity to get some money out of this company yet you focus on a tired principle."

Hmmm...I didn't realize that any actual "principle" diminished in value over time, even if by disregarding all principles, as you seem perfectly comfortable with, might prove financially beneficial. Umm..what exactly, in your mind, IS our "principle" at issue here? You've clearrly stated that there's "no windfall"...other than your intended "upgrade" in PHL I suppose

PS AWA320: I'm curious. How is "Emotions seem to rule the day for you fine bunch. All of your actions are emotion without the benefit of any intellect what so ever." NOT at least some small degree of an "insult"? = "This is not an insult EYE but rather fact!!" Some future additional consideration might well be placed on your delivery of compliments then Personally? = I just find it amusing, and have no notions of duplicity by way of insulting anyone, and then pretending not to be doing exactly that. Sigh...another sadly misplaced notion of "principle" I suppose.

 

[Richard]

Discuss the issues, and stop going after each other.

And EastUS, disclosing the content of PM's on the main boards is against the rules.

 

[EastUS]

And EastUS, disclosing the content of PM's on the main boards is against the rules.

Ah, Understood now. My apologies for the same then.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Oil is 80$ a barrel and going higher. We have an opportunuity to get some money out of this company yet you focus on a tired principle. The east can be summed up in one word, EMOTIONAL!!!! Emotions seem to rule the day for you fine bunch. All of your actions are emotion without the benefit of any intellect what so ever. They have cost you in the past and you have failed to learn from your prior mistakes. This is not an insult EYE but rather fact!! You keep letting the fish you catch get away and soon you will starve. I do hope you understand and again this is not an insult on you...

AWA320,
Don't get emotional about money; seniority yes, money no.

Later,
Eye

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Oil is 80$ a barrel and going higher. We have an opportunuity to get some money out of this company yet you focus on a tired principle. The east can be summed up in one word, EMOTIONAL!!!! Emotions seem to rule the day for you fine bunch. All of your actions are emotion without the benefit of any intellect what so ever. They have cost you in the past and you have failed to learn from your prior mistakes. This is not an insult EYE but rather fact!! You keep letting the fish you catch get away and soon you will starve. I do hope you understand and again this is not an insult on you...

AWA320 - It does seem as if (by reading your recent posts in this thread) you are now worried that the award will be altered or tossed aside. This of course has your boy shorts in a twist... Your MEC should realize that the east guys have been through the worst and you are dealing with fire... I hope you don't get burned, just remember what happens to them happens to you =) ..... YOU ARE THE MINORITY!!!

 

[Bear96]

AWA320,
Don't get emotional about money; seniority yes, money no.

Later,
Eye

Could you explain the difference?

Aren't people upset about the seniority situation largely because it will affect how much money they can earn?

So why is one worth getting emotional over but the other isn't?