AWA ALPA LEC 62 Update

[EastUS]

AAA's pre-merger career expectation was unemployment. The attrition East "brought" to the merger would not have existed without the merger.

Even assuming that AAA was going to stay in business, in what world can a furloughed pilot expect anything better than to be recalled to the bottom of the active list? Yet you guys think that somehow your furloughed guys should leapfrog ahead of half or more of the AWA pilots, and that's not a windfall?

Ummm...you totally dodged the question: What's the freaking problem with keeping the two tribes seperate?

Addendum: I'm ex PSA and I'd love to get a west based 757 flying to HI myself....but it wouldn't be the right thing to do if it entails the total sellout of reasonable seniority via Nic. Why is it that those of you out west cannot see any similar logic as per east seats? If you guys ever get your St Nic Xmas present...don't think that some of your most "senior" seats out west won't get resentfully grabbed by some of us "evil easties" at our pleasure. WTF"s the problem with maintaining the two sides as seperate groups, and working toward an actually decent contract? Are you THAT desperate to steal someone's seat out east?

Spare me all the "the arbitrator said"..."You guys were going broke faster then we were"....and/or "I've got a note from my Mommy..and she likes me best" BS. Think on it like some/ANY semblance of a Man and see what you can actually find wrong with the idea of seperate ops lists.

 

[AWA320]

We do? Then all your postings are useless self indulgences I'd think...why bother with them?

As for myself?=I'm none too certain just how things will eventually go.

That's your problem, you don't think you let others do that for you and because of it you are in this mess!!!

Time for you and the rest of the other sheep to get it together and start thinking for yourself

 

[EastUS]

That's your problem, you don't think you let others do that for you and because of it you are in this mess!!!

Time for you and the rest of the other sheep to get it together and start thinking for yourself

Refer to my last post AWA320...I was hoping for a response from "some/ANY semblance of a Man"

You've some moronic attatchment/fantasy as per me/the east being "lead" by, and mind controlled by Alpo at this point...Give it up.

As for your "response" to my earlier: "As for myself?=I'm none too certain just how things will eventually go." That's merely aknowledgement that the future's fully unkown. I've not your depth of self assigned, prescient ability...I actually DO "Think"...you might try it sometime...just for laughs.

 

[AWA320]

Refer to my last post AWA320...I was hoping for a response from "some/ANY semblance of a Man"

You've some moronic attatchment/fantasy as per me/the east being "lead" by, and mind controlled by Alpo at this point...Give it up.

You are told by your mec what to think when to think it and what your responses will be! Don't even pretend like this isn't true because I have witnessed just how they handle you!! You are Sheep EastUS led by your nose to believe things that you failed to investigate on your own.

Did you know that the company has sent over for review and signature the space positive LOU that your MEC has been cryin about for the last two years??? Did you know that it's been sitting on the Pitt capt reps girlfriend desk for the last two months with no action??? Wasn't this the big reason your guys refused to negotiate anywhere but DCA. What gives Sheep? Didn't your shepards tell you there was an LOU ready for over two months??????

Sheep being led to slaughter... Yeah that's good reps you got there East really good ones.

 

[EastUS]

You are told by your mec what to think when to think it and what your responses will be! Don't even pretend like this isn't true because I have witnessed just how they handle you!! You are Sheep EastUS led by your nose to believe things that you failed to investigate on your own.

Did you know that the company has sent over for review and signature the space positive LOU that your MEC has been cryin about for the last two years??? Did you know that it's been sitting on the Pitt capt reps girlfriend desk for the last two months with no action??? Wasn't this the big reason your guys refused to negotiate anywhere but DCA. What gives Sheep? Didn't your shepards tell you there was an LOU ready for over two months??????

Sheep being led to slaughter... Yeah that's good reps you got there East really good ones.

Is it even POSSIBLE for a human being to be so utterly dense as you seem to be?...Is your BS just a contrived act? Here's but a line from one of my posts:

"While I'd argue that "buying some time" amounts to a tactical victory against the Nic bit so far: It's currently Alpo that's intent on "buying some time". They've the Sword of Damocles via decert over their heads, and are stalling/tap dancing/etc whilst attempting to come up with some Alpo salvation measure(s)."

Perhaps you sensed my total devotion to Alpo via:"You've some moronic attatchment/fantasy as per me/the east being "lead" by, and mind controlled by Alpo at this point...Give it up."

Here's another oft repeated personal theme of mine: "Dump Alpo NOW!!"

Do those appear to even your tiny "mind" to be the thoughts of a person who is: "....told by your mec what to think when to think it and what your responses will be!"

Ummmm...Ho---kaaay then comes: AWA320"Don't even pretend like this isn't true because I have witnessed just how they handle you!!"

And...Ummmm...that "theory" fits in with my "Dump Alpo NOW!!" in what way exactly?????

Are you just personally clinically INSANE?....Just curious

Seriously: Tell me that your'e just kidding...or please assure me/us that you don't actually fly passengers around. If what you put on is just that...an act = fine, everyone gets their knickers in knots around here and spouts off...but if you actually "think" as you post....you're truly scary to envision at the controls of any airliner.

 

[ussnark]

Good!!! Then tell us all Nark why AAA was dead broke in a second BK with no plan for exit?? Do tell cause this ought to be real interesting.

Because they weren't? Don't you read? 2nd bk was solely about going back to get concessions they thought they left on the table. It had nothing to do with "survival".

Read fully and, in your case, ask professionals for help. caveboy.

Like I said lost sheep headed towards wolf to be eaten...

and, that makes A&W the wolf, I presume. No windfall there.

Never mind just post your BK exit plan for all to see and don't use ch7 because everyone in a free thinking world knew that's where you were headed.

In your alternative universe of wishful dreams, apparently.

 

[AWA320]

Is it even POSSIBLE for a human being to be so utterly dense as you seem to be?...Is your BS just a contrived act? Here's but a line from one of my posts:

"While I'd argue that "buying some time" amounts to a tactical victory against the Nic bit so far: It's currently Alpo that's intent on "buying some time". They've the Sword of Damocles via decert over their heads, and are stalling/tap dancing/etc whilst attempting to come up with some Alpo salvation measure(s)."

Perhaps you sensed my total devotion to Alpo via:"You've some moronic attatchment/fantasy as per me/the east being "lead" by, and mind controlled by Alpo at this point...Give it up."

Here's another oft repeated personal theme of mine: "Dump Alpo NOW!!"

Do those appear to even your tiny "mind" to be the thoughts of a person who is: "....told by your mec what to think when to think it and what your responses will be!"

Ummmm...Ho---kaaay then comes: AWA320"Don't even pretend like this isn't true because I have witnessed just how they handle you!!"

And...Ummmm...that "theory" fits in with my "Dump Alpo NOW!!" in what way exactly?????

Are you just personally clinically INSANE?....Just curious

Seriously: Tell me that your'e just kidding...or please assure me/us that you don't actually fly passengers around. If what you put on is just that...an act = fine, everyone gets their knickers in knots around here and spouts off...but if you actually "think" as you post....you're truly scary to envision at the controls of any airliner.

Dump ALPA, Dump ALPA clue here East, ALPA didn't elect your reps YOU DID!!! Still blaming others for your mistakes. Now who's dense East?? Fix the problem, your reps not ALPA.

Until you can see and understand that you are still sheep being led by your noses. No matter what union you have the same people will run and unless you deal with that the cancer will come back!! There has to be a brain in there somewhere...

Because they weren't? Don't you read? 2nd bk was solely about going back to get concessions they thought they left on the table. It had nothing to do with "survival".

Read fully and, in your case, ask professionals for help. caveboy.
and, that makes A&W the wolf, I presume. No windfall there.
In your alternative universe of wishful dreams, apparently.

Evidence of a lost arguement is when one resorts to insults and personal attacks!!!

Stick to the facts and SEC filings there Nark Broke Broke Broke was your carrier!! No exit plan other than CH7. I'll take two of what ever it is you are drinking

Oh and for the last time we didn't get a windfall here and no other carrier in this country sees it that way except you, I wonder why???? We over here all lost realitive position Nark ALL OF US!!! 517 Easties got a major windfall..

What say you on that space positive LOU there Nark????

Sheep being blindly led to slaughter.

 

[Pi brat]

Dump ALPA, Dump ALPA clue here East, ALPA didn't elect your reps YOU DID!!! Still blaming others for your mistakes. Now who's dense East?? Fix the problem, your reps not ALPA.

Until you can see and understand that you are still sheep being led by your noses. No matter what union you have the same people will run and unless you deal with that the cancer will come back!! There has to be a brain in there somewhere...
Evidence of a lost arguement is when one resorts to insults and personal attacks!!!

Stick to the facts and SEC filings there Nark Broke Broke Broke was your carrier!! No exit plan other than CH7. I'll take two of what ever it is you are drinking

Oh and for the last time we didn't get a windfall here and no other carrier in this country sees it that way except you, I wonder why???? We over here all lost realitive position Nark ALL OF US!!! 517 Easties got a major windfall..

What say you on that space positive LOU there Nark????

Sheep being blindly led to slaughter.

And AWA guys are not being led by the noses? Everyone knows there is a problem with the award, but your MEC says we are not going to do anything."WE are right, we are right, we are right!" That's kind of like trying to cross a busy road, with huge trucks, and saying " the law says I have the right-of-way, I'll just walk right on across, they will stop". That might make you dead right.

I think the reason you are on here whinning so much is that you know AAA can legally delay this thing for years even if they can't get it changed. You don't want to wait for your raise and windfall.

 

[USA320Pilot]

PHL Council 41 Update of July 23 said: The company is now anxious to clean up their “labor balance sheetâ€￾ in order to give them more flexibility in the M&A arena and it may provide some early opportunities for us. We ain’t gonna clean up this mess on the cheap, and the company pretty much understands this or so it is reported. Time will tell.

We could be looking at single contract separate operations, or separate agreements and separate operations. The East and the company will be exploring these possibilities. No matter how well each separate pilot group may do in the “separate mode,â€￾ in my opinion there will be losers created by this strategy. First, to those of you who will be around for a while, say 50ish or so and younger guys, you are entitled, in my opinion, to what your expectations were at the announcement of the merger; a bigger stronger airline with the capacity for more synergies, profitability, and opportunities created by the implementation of a list which is consistent with the tenants of ALPA Merger Policy. Secondly, The AWA guys will never find another potential inheritance the magnitude of what has recently been before them. There will never be another arbitration boondoggle like this on the short term ALPA horizon. You can bet on that! Nicolau will not happen again real soon. This old fart has cost the company and the Association a bunch! The AWA guys will never find another deal in which, even if they were stapled, would they inherit so much so soon.

Click here to read Rowe's comments.

USA320Pilot comments: If the East MEC and the Company strike a deal where PHL Captain Rep. Eric Rowe said, "We could be looking at single contract separate operations, or separate agreements and separate operations. The East and the company will be exploring these possibilities. No matter how well each separate pilot group may do in the separate mode" then I believe Rowe's comment that "the AWA guys will never find another deal in which, even if they were stapled, would they inherit so much so soon."

Why? The US Airways East pilot average age of about 54 years old and the tremendous East attrition. With separate operations, which is now being discussed between the East MEC and the Company, which cannot be stopped by the West MEC, over time you could end up having new hires on the East side of the operation advancing faster than their West counterparts. How ironic would that be!

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[prechilill]

With separate operations, which is now being discussed between the East MEC and the Company,
Regards,

USA320Pilot

The master of misinterpretation and spin. Or should we just call you a liar?

 

[CaptainZitface]

The master of misinterpretation and spin. Or should we just call you a liar?

Don't forget Master of Concessions, a position he held pre-merger!

BTW, When has he ever been right? How's the parity thing coming along? And the 13-1 vote to vacate the award?

 

[CaptainZitface]

Addendum: I'm ex PSA and I'd love to get a west based 757 flying to HI myself....but it wouldn't be the right thing to do if it entails the total sellout of reasonable seniority via Nic. ...

And I'm sure you wouldn't be the only one. There will be others wanting to come West. I know you don't believe it but I really think that only about 100-200 Westies would be interested in moving East. (yes, increased pay would be cool, but the raise wouldn't be enough to make up for the significantly higher cost of living in the NE compared to AZ) People like you who want to come West would reduce the effect of that on East pilots, even further.

I don't want to revisit the whole seniority / attrition argument again but what happens when Age 65 becomes effective, or if, under a single certificate, the company starts basing 190s in PHX, parking 737s and 757s, etc. etc.

don't think that some of your most "senior" seats out west won't get resentfully grabbed by some of us "evil easties" at our pleasure.

Yup, and that's why our senior captains aren't at all happy with the award. They got stapled behind 517 guys and then ratioed. Most of them have lived in Phoenix for 20+ years and the majority has absolutely no intentions to commute to PHL to do a red-eye to Europe. However, the award allows East pilots to come in at will when openings occur.

WTF"s the problem with maintaining the two sides as separate groups, and working toward an actually decent contract?

The main problem with that is that they're mutually exclusive. Management is going to play the two sides against each other thereby minimizing the possibility of an actually decent contract. Just look at the mess at Atlas/Polar....and that's without a seniority award controversy.

I would really like it if the JNC, company and the "Rice-Committee" could come up a Tentative Agreement based on the Nic award, with the East concerns about it being addressed in the contract language and then have both MECs present it to the membership without comment. The results of that vote should be mighty interesting.

 

[EastUS]

Dump ALPA, Dump ALPA clue here East, ALPA didn't elect your reps YOU DID!!! Still blaming others for your mistakes. Now who's dense East?? Fix the problem, your reps not ALPA.

Until you can see and understand that you are still sheep being led by your noses. No matter what union you have the same people will run and unless you deal with that the cancer will come back!! There has to be a brain in there somewhere...

I'll take two of what ever it is you are drinking

Oh and for the last time we didn't get a windfall here and no other carrier in this country sees it that way except you, I wonder why????

Sheep being blindly led to slaughter.

"Dump ALPA, Dump ALPA clue here East, ALPA didn't elect your reps YOU DID!!! Still blaming others for your mistakes. Now who's dense East?? Fix the problem, your reps not ALPA.

I see Alpo's inherent structure and it's politics as being "the problem". If you're repeating my "Dump Alpo"s for personal effect; kindly don't include the reverant awe you have for that bunch of self interested morons via your spelling...It's AlpO in my mind

"Until you can see and understand that you are still sheep being led by your noses. No matter what union you have the same people will run and unless you deal with that the cancer will come back!!"

I see: We're hopeless/helpless sheep, and if/when we start a new union "the same people will run and unless you deal with that the cancer will come back!!" Naturally; we're all so in love with the clowns that, along with AWA's clowns, made this mess that we're just dying to elect them to a new union...GeeZuess..where do you get your "thoughts"? So: Alpo's a "cancer" to us "sheep", but to "Fix the problem," it's an issue of "your reps not ALPA."? Golly!...I guess that our situation's just entirely hopeless then...might as well forget getting rid of the ALpo bunch that made this mess and hand your St Nic presents to you immediately Baaaaa!....Good freaking luck Bozo. AWA320: "There has to be a brain in there somewhere..." I'll take your word for it, but you've yet to show evidence of any such being in your personal posession.

"Oh and for the last time we didn't get a windfall here"
"I'll take two of what ever it is you are drinking "

I think that you've already had far too many. :blink:

BTW as for:"Sheep being blindly led to slaughter" IF your Nic Fest ever occurs...know that among the first things I'll do is bid out west for one of your very best seats in the show. I'm not a great fan of living in the east, I've seen my fill of europe, and I'm against Alpo and the Nic Fest based upon principles...a concept clearly foreign to you.

 

[EastUS]

I would really like it if the JNC, company and the "Rice-Committee" could come up a Tentative Agreement based on the Nic award, with the East concerns about it being addressed in the contract language and then have both MECs present it to the membership without comment. The results of that vote should be mighty interesting.

I'd love to see ANYTHING even slightly possible to enact brought forward that even MIGHT prove workable for both "sides" of us all. It would indicate some hope of actual progress..even if the first shot wholly misses the mark. I'm not thinking about holding my breath though. I feel that any solution would essentially require keeping the "sides" seperate at this point. I've no thughts that the Nic award, as it exists, will ever "sell" out east. Sigh...Waikiki....dammitall Alpo.

 

[AWA320]

And AWA guys are not being led by the noses? Everyone knows there is a problem with the award, but your MEC says we are not going to do anything."WE are right, we are right, we are right!" That's kind of like trying to cross a busy road, with huge trucks, and saying " the law says I have the right-of-way, I'll just walk right on across, they will stop". That might make you dead right.

Who are you talking about there Pi brat?? Lets stroll down memory lane shall we? NWA merger committee says award is fair, DAL merger committee says award is fair, UAL merger committee says award is fair so just who are you talking about when you state "everuone knows ther is a problem"?? You mean the east pilot group don't you?? Deal time Pi was back in oct all during this arb. Now you have nothing to deal with but your own future.

I think the reason you are on here whinning so much is that you know AAA can legally delay this thing for years even if they can't get it changed. You don't want to wait for your raise and windfall.

You can delay but guess who will get burned?? Your east brothers and sisters!! Can't have it both ways Pi sorry. Long before this MEC will allow you to stall that long we'll snatch your mec right back in to arbitration and you will lose!!! We have been patient and taking the high road for the most part but the high road also has to desend at some point as well.

Sheep Pi deal with your real problem, because the west MEC never lied to you or your pilots, think about it!!!!