AWA ALPA LEC 62 Update

[USA320Pilot]

Another day of free without having to read 700UW's posts!

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

Cant stay on topic can you?

Guess the plugs went in to deep.

 

[Junebug172]

USA320Pilot = grain of salt

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

If this airline breaks up, do not be surprised if the East goes to United and the West to Continental.

Not at all likely to occur but makes for real good crewroom rumor.

The one thing you're forgetting is the East as the majority of the revenue because the West is a low RASM operation.

True but so is the majority of the dead weight on the east as well as well!!

By the way, what is wrong with one of the Rice Committee's recommendations of a joint contract and separate East and West operations? This preserves everybody's pre-merger career expectation and provides an improved contract.

That wasn't a Rice committee recommendation that was a BOS F/O rep recommendation!! There is no benefit at all to the company for this and we have no say in that anyway!! Sort of like when you offered pay protection for the 757, you don't control the checkbook thus you don't seperate or joint ops!!!


Finally, I'm not so sure people want to merge because of the US Airways - AWA labor problems. Furthermore, if the East keeps its pay rates at its current level the AWA pilots and the rest of the industry is likely to do the same due to the "monkey see, monkey do" attitude in industry labor relations.

AWA doesn't have a labor problem, you do!! You feel that the world and every other pilot group owes you something. News flash, we don't!!

CEO's will likely cry poverty and the need to match costs.

It could because the longer we waste time the longer they skate on bk rates...

Thus, when would now be a good time to negotiate a settlement per the Rice Committee recommendation so everybody can move forward?

Nothing really to settle on as I heard nothing come from them other than "throw the list out" ,"this won't work" "our pilots won't accept any amount of money" Prater "Mr. CLT f/o rep, we're pilots we all have a price" Run with that one as our offer of a deal!! Get the money cause that's all that's left...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

AWA320,

If this airline breaks up, do not be surprised if the East goes to United and the West to Continental.

Not at all likely to occur but makes for real good crewroom rumor.

The one thing you're forgetting is the East as the majority of the revenue because the West is a low RASM operation.

True but so is the majority of the dead weight on the east as well as well!!

By the way, what is wrong with one of the Rice Committee's recommendations of a joint contract and separate East and West operations? This preserves everybody's pre-merger career expectation and provides an improved contract.

That wasn't a Rice committee recommendation that was a BOS F/O rep recommendation!! There is no benefit at all to the company for this and we have no say in that anyway!! Sort of like when you offered pay protection for the 757, you don't control the checkbook thus you don't seperate or joint ops!!!


Finally, I'm not so sure people want to merge because of the US Airways - AWA labor problems. Furthermore, if the East keeps its pay rates at its current level the AWA pilots and the rest of the industry is likely to do the same due to the "monkey see, monkey do" attitude in industry labor relations.

AWA doesn't have a labor problem, you do!! You feel that the world and every other pilot group owes you something. News flash, we don't!!

CEO's will likely cry poverty and the need to match costs.

It could because the longer we waste time the longer they skate on bk rates...

Thus, when would now be a good time to negotiate a settlement per the Rice Committee recommendation so everybody can move forward?

Nothing really to settle on as I heard nothing come from them other than "throw the list out" ,"this won't work" "our pilots won't accept any amount of money" Prater "Mr. CLT f/o rep, we're pilots we all have a price" Run with that one as our offer of a deal!! Get the money cause that's all that's left...

Regards,

 

[EastUS]

"AWA doesn't have a labor problem, you do!!"

Thanks. I see more clearly now = AWA is an entirely seperate entity then? It isn't part of "USAirways" at all? Sounds good to me Let's just keep things all nice and seperate then

 

[AWA320]

"AWA doesn't have a labor problem, you do!!"

Thanks. I see more clearly now = AWA is an entirely seperate entity then? It isn't part of "USAirways" at all? Sounds good to me Let's just keep things all nice and seperate then

I have a better idea, lets ask Mr. Parker to do just that but lets take it further lets ask him to release you on your own!! You guys were doing soooo well by yourself until you plucked us from certain death, right?? You had crack management you had plenty of money in the bank and the furloughs were just figments of all's imagination. You didn't need us, you still don't.

Sheep without a shepard heading toward wolf country would describe what and where you were prior to AWA...

Get the money and stop this ignorant unnecessary display of your peacock feathers...

 

[hp_fa]

USA320Pilot = grain of salt

More like that annoying pebble in your shoe.

 

[ussnark]

You didn't need us, you still don't.

Well, you got one thing right.

 

[AWA320]

Well, you got one thing right.

Good!!! Then tell us all Nark why AAA was dead broke in a second BK with no plan for exit?? Do tell cause this ought to be real interesting.

Like I said lost sheep headed towards wolf to be eaten...

Never mind just post your BK exit plan for all to see and don't use ch7 because everyone in a free thinking world knew that's where you were headed.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

USA320 asked: "By the way, what is wrong with one of the Rice Committee's recommendations of a joint contract and separate East and West operations? This preserves everybody's pre-merger career expectation and provides an improved contract."

AWA320 said: "That wasn't a Rice committee recommendation that was a BOS F/O rep recommendation!!"

US Airways ALPA MEC Chairman Jack Stephan said in his July 17 update, "The Rice Committee jump started discussions by presenting options they felt might be reached through collective bargaining that ranged from 1) a single contract for both groups, 2) separate contracts and separate operations, and 3) Section 6 bargaining for the AWA pilots and AAA pilots."

Furthermore, according to last week's letter from John Prater to the US Airways and America West pilots "that our union’s resources should be devoted to brining about practical result through the efforts of the Executive Council, the Rice Committee, the MECs and the joint negotiating committee, and that other action on the agenda item is not called for at this time. The practical results may include merged agreements, umbrella agreements, or multiple agreements."

But, if the AWA pilots continue to violate the EC's resolutions then lets not find an acceptable solution to the problem. Yes, the US Airways pilots would like contract improvements, but the majority of the rank-and-file would prefer to live under LOA 93, prevent the Nicolau Award from being implemented, watch the AWA pilots operate in Section 6 negotiations, and let the seniority lawsuit proceed than reach a joint contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[hp_fa]

But, if the AWA pilots continue to violate the EC's resolutions then lets not find an acceptable solution to the problem. Yes, the US Airways pilots would like contract improvements, but the majority of the rank-and-file would prefer to live under LOA 93, prevent the Nicolau Award from being implemented, watch the AWA pilots operate in Section 6 negotiations, and let the seniority lawsuit proceed than reach a joint contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

A resolution is a feel-good expression. It doesn't have the power of bylaws or regulations.

If, as you contend, West is violating the resolution, isn't East doing so by failing to accept a final and binding arbitration?

 

[Bear96]

If, as you contend, West is violating the resolution, isn't East doing so by failing to accept a final and binding arbitration?

That's already been asked and not answered.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,



US Airways ALPA MEC Chairman Jack Stephan said in his July 17 update, "The Rice Committee jump started discussions by presenting options they felt might be reached through collective bargaining that ranged from 1) a single contract for both groups, 2) separate contracts and separate operations, and 3) Section 6 bargaining for the AWA pilots and AAA pilots."

Wrong again!!! Since you were not there and I was I know what was said and who said it! The suggestion of seperate ops came from BOS F/O rep. Now again the company has no obligation to do this and we don't make the rules as far as joint or seperate ops.

Furthermore, according to last week's letter from John Prater to the US Airways and America West pilots "that our union’s resources should be devoted to brining about practical result through the efforts of the Executive Council, the Rice Committee, the MECs and the joint negotiating committee, and that other action on the agenda item is not called for at this time. The practical results may include merged agreements, umbrella agreements, or multiple agreements."

Again suggested by BOS F/O rep. The Rice committee rather Paul himself opened by saying the PRIMARY GOAL was to obtain a SINGLE agreement.

But, if the AWA pilots continue to violate the EC's resolutions then lets not find an acceptable solution to the problem. Yes, the US Airways pilots would like contract improvements, but the majority of the rank-and-file would prefer to live under LOA 93, prevent the Nicolau Award from being implemented, watch the AWA pilots operate in Section 6 negotiations, and let the seniority lawsuit proceed than reach a joint contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

We need to get real man!!! That law suit is a total waste of time and money and you know it! ALPA will not back you on your claims and further it will be moved to federal court in the morning. The whole move was stupid and your sheep handlers really overplayed their hand. This company is not going to allow section 6 nor are they going to give you parity!

ALPA national is worried about two things here the east decert and the west DFR!

Lets look at decert first, it does nothing to change the award and you know it, your only hope is in federal court and you have a better chance of hitting the lotto twice in the same week than getting the federal court to touch this thing. Second who's going to rep you?? Teamsters? AHH no there is a no raid policy which means they must steer clear. So the only option is inhouse but there is a huge problem as well as the almost 2000 pilots in the west will not contribute to your efforts nor will they pay any dues. You will have a situation of east going one way and the west doing the direct opposite basically CAL EAL part two.

Second is the DFR, the west will do all they can but we will reach a time when we throw up our hands and say "we did all we could to get them to comply" and file the suit! Again the entire pilot group loses and not just east and west but the entire pilot profession.

Now you and I both know the answer here and what will ultimatly happen!!!!

Fraternally

 

[EastUS]

Now you and I both know the answer here and what will ultimatly happen!!!!

Fraternally

We do? Then all your postings are useless self indulgences I'd think...why bother with them?

As for myself?=I'm none too certain just how things will eventually go.

 

[Cactus737]

USA320 asked: "By the way, what is wrong with one of the Rice Committee's recommendations of a joint contract and separate East and West operations? This preserves everybody's pre-merger career expectation and provides an improved contract."

AAA's pre-merger career expectation was unemployment. The attrition East "brought" to the merger would not have existed without the merger.

Even assuming that AAA was going to stay in business, in what world can a furloughed pilot expect anything better than to be recalled to the bottom of the active list? Yet you guys think that somehow your furloughed guys should leapfrog ahead of half or more of the AWA pilots, and that's not a windfall?