August/September 2013 Fleet Discussion

[ograc]

I believe the posture of the company in any future Fleet Service contract negotiations, if the merger is shot down by the DOJ, will be; "poor us, we, as a stand alone carrier now, cannot afford to give back any meaningful improvements to your wages, benefits or working conditions. We must continue to keep our costs down in order to remain competitive." I believe it's reasonable to expect this posturing by the company if the merger proposal fails. I believe the IAM should be prepared for this position. I believe it's time to Lock and Load! I believe it's time this company pays the piper! They have lived on borrowed time, off the sacrifices of the employee groups long enough! It's time for US to take care of their own house.

 

[necigrad]

ograc, I disagree and yet come to the same conclusion. I think negotiating on the grounds of how successful or unsuccessful a company is is disingenuous, unless it's all tied together. US is a major airline, it matters not how profitable we are in negotiations unless the agreed contact accounts for that as it sets a dangerous precedent. Saying that we should get more because the company is doing well just supports the companies arguments for cutbacks as the company can control how things appear. If we were to go the route of including the success (presumably profit) then we wold need to negotiate not a payscale, but a pay bottom adjusted for profits. Wait, that's profit sharing! I get what you're saying, but that would be a bad idea.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Off topic: while i bleive douggie will give up whatever he has to, for the merger to proceed, (its been nice knowing you dca), the amr board isnt as willing if too many concessions are granted.
Therefore, although i believe things with the doj will get worked out, let's entertain the thought, if not amr then who?
Imo, due to the nicolioi award, parker believes the quickest resolution is merger. Id prefer merging with a State airline (insert hawaiian or alaska here) as opposed to a jetblue or frontier. Of couse southwest would be sweet but that probably isnt possible.

 

[737823]

Tim,
With the merger in limbo or possibly dead altogether it is imperative the membership mobilize and get US to focus on your section 6 negotiations. US is viable as a stand alone carrier they are making record profits there is no excuse for you guys to be stuck in a bankruptcy era agreement. Lately DL 141 seems fine kicking the can down the road awaiting for this alliance with TWU to materialize.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Wrong again.

Fleet's has asked to be released, the whole NC went around the system for informational meetings, they went to the hubs first, then to the large stations and onto the smaller stations and the meetings are still ongoing.

They asked to be released and havent heard from the board about it nor when the next negotiations are scheduled.

There will be no JCBA negotiations until a stand alone US/IAM CBA is negotiated.

 

[robbedagain]

josh dont think its a dead deal nbc nightly news interviewed airline lawyers for aa n us and he clearly stated that a merger can still happen by yrs end.. in an article i read on www.justplanenews.com last nite bill baer the govt antitrust division director who filed the suit said that the merger can still happen this yr with aggreements

 

[Tim Nelson]

Josh,
Articles today, confirm that if the amr merger does not take place, the amr will have to develop a new plan, in which case labor will have to take deeper cuts.
Crandall did an interview with bloomberg this morning and he said that it doesnt appear that the doj is interested in negotiations but rather wants to shut this merger down.
As far as USairways, its the most profitable airline in the world over the last 18 months with the exception of delta so i wouldnt see any reason why something north of $24 hour cant be achieved. But imo, protecting work and bringing work back within scope may be worth less of that wage if we can insource and also pick up some other benefit language.
My concern has been the union leadership. I feel it is completely asinine to lowball negotiations and only seek $22 and change then claim that our competition really is low cost competitors. What is funny is that the doj just claimed our competors are delta and united (which is true), but we are increasingly competing with southwest, in fact moreso than american. Yet the union leadership has repeatedly said we shouldnt compare ourselves to southwest or alaska because they are "apples". The union leaders want to compare us to bankrupt carriers and then claim that new vendors are our competition.
Josh, hasnt vendors always been around? Havent there always been Mcdonalds wage earners out there?
The only thing that has changed is that the industry and this company isnt bankrupt anymore, and the new breed of union leaders tend to be company rat whores with little to no education and willing to sell out the middle class for a dollar.
Those who have grown wise by keeping their eyes and ears open will be very cautious when they hear the words of the union bosses, at least those among us who have the knowledge to comprehend that nothing is special to the iam regarding usairways members. Usairways members should beware because the iam blew even more smoke at united and hawaiian airlines before raping them all and slitting the throat of their scope.
Time will tell but the good thing is that facebook and the social media can be used where the members can network and mobilize against scab rat contracts that sito or other scabs try to get passed.

 

[psa8979]

Brother Tim is pointing out that the IAM/TWU Leadership at the top of the PYRAMID need to stay HONEST and UP FRONT with the Members. In THE BIG PICTURE for US/FS we need a Industry Leading CBA NOW ! Going forward it will be a LOSE/LOSE for ALL if LCC/DP/AH don't negotiate in GOOD FAITH with Union Workers, Customers , and Flying Public. The MERGER (LCC/AMR) won't happen with out mutual respect/trust between ALL the PLAYERS. SOLIDARITY WORKS. CHEERS !

 

[700UW]

 

[psa8979]

Baggage Handler. What Society Thinks I Do. I'm a PILEIT . Contracts NOW ! SOLIDARITY WORKS .

 

[ograc]

ograc, I disagree and yet come to the same conclusion. I think negotiating on the grounds of how successful or unsuccessful a company is is disingenuous, unless it's all tied together. US is a major airline, it matters not how profitable we are in negotiations unless the agreed contact accounts for that as it sets a dangerous precedent. Saying that we should get more because the company is doing well just supports the companies arguments for cutbacks as the company can control how things appear. If we were to go the route of including the success (presumably profit) then we wold need to negotiate not a payscale, but a pay bottom adjusted for profits. Wait, that's profit sharing! I get what you're saying, but that would be a bad idea.

Never said anything about negotiating based on how successful or unsuccessful the company is. the truth of the matter is; even as a stand alone carrier, at this point, the company is reaping record breaking profits. a point the DOJ pointed out in their objection to the merger. The fact that the company exists and can reap such profits to this day is largely attributed to the concessions they were able to reap from labor and creditors under the protection of bankruptcy. IMO... you can have the profit sharing and the "Triple Play" compensation. I NEED A CONTRACT! It's time for the company to recognize and ante up for past sacrifices! It's time for them to make things right! Regardless if we merge with AA or not. Based on their recent posture in negotiations; they have no intent in doing so. Lock and Load!

 

[rockit2]

Never said anything about negotiating based on how successful or unsuccessful the company is. the truth of the matter is; even as a stand alone carrier, at this point, the company is reaping record breaking profits. a point the DOJ pointed out in their objection to the merger. The fact that the company exists and can reap such profits to this day is largely attributed to the concessions they were able to reap from labor and creditors under the protection of bankruptcy. IMO... you can have the profit sharing and the "Triple Play" compensation. I NEED A CONTRACT! It's time for the company to recognize and ante up for past sacrifices! It's time for them to make things right! Regardless if we merge with AA or not. Based on their recent posture in negotiations; they have no intent in doing so. Lock and Load!

The triple play is a J-O-K-E, People bust their arse every day for the fifty dollar payout that comes to around 35 dollars depending on your tax bracket. It's no big deal, it equates to 9 gallons of gas or a meal at a cheap diner. The people who get whipped the most for this program are the ones making below grade pay, cust svc and fleet, but the station director's sec. does nothing for ot performance,pawobs or complaints and set's back and loves the company because she get's a bonus. It's time for a contract with decent wages so we can live, screw the TRIPLE PLAY.

 

[psa8979]

LCC/DP Contracts NOW ! Merger LATER ! IT's GO ! Time .....

 

[Tim Nelson]

I wanted to report that myself and Karen Asuncion were successful in getting the department of labor to rule against the international and schedule a new election for international positions.
I ll be on conference call the next week to hear the rules that the dol will establish. The dol also ruled that it will supervise the new election.
Myself and karen took no pleasure in having to bring a legal case against our union but we had little choice as we exhausted all internal measures, even prior to the nominations, to get buffy and roach to understand their errors but they just were too arrogant to listen.
In the meantime we have expanded our network into other industries and it appears enough support and awareness will enable an election this time.
Dl141 members are leading the way in this union. From implimenting the new organizing methods, and rising up against a disarray leadership in its attempt to hoodwink the membership into accepting an anti labor agreement at united, to fighting and beating the intl legal team to secure a more favorable election for the members.

 

[ograc]

I wanted to report that myself and Karen Asuncion were successful in getting the department of labor to rule against the international and schedule a new election for international positions.
I ll be on conference call the next week to hear the rules that the dol will establish. The dol also ruled that it will supervise the new election.
Myself and karen took no pleasure in having to bring a legal case against our union but we had little choice as we exhausted all internal measures, even prior to the nominations, to get buffy and roach to understand their errors but they just were too arrogant to listen.
In the meantime we have expanded our network into other industries and it appears enough support and awareness will enable an election this time.
Dl141 members are leading the way in this union. From implimenting the new organizing methods, and rising up against a disarray leadership in its attempt to hoodwink the membership into accepting an anti labor agreement at united, to fighting and beating the intl legal team to secure a more favorable election for the members.

Tim,
On what basis was the previous endorsement process overturned? Specifically, what objections to the process were raised to the DOL by yourself and Karen? To this point I do not know the specifics of the challenges raised, concerning the endorsement process, by yourself and Karen. Please elaborate.